Do you view Holy Communion as Literal or Symbolic?
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After Jesus told the Jewish crowd that His flesh was true food and that His Blood was true drink, the crowd couldn't believe it. The Jews knew that Jesus was talking literally and not symbolically. and walked away. They thought it was a hard saying. Jesus then asked His Disciples if they would leave also.
John 6:52-59
52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread[a] the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”
John 6:52-59
52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread[a] the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”
A couple of things to note, when people decided not to believe Jesus and walked away, Jesus respected their free will to leave and never asked them to stay. This is reminiscent of the Parable of the Prodigal Son. The Son said he wanted nothing to do with his Father. Note that the Father didn't plead with him to stay, he let him go on his own path to self destruction.
Jesus asks us all the question, "Will you leave also?"
The idea that unleavened bread and wine literally turned into real flesh and real blood is a strictly Roman Catholic doctrine, and is wrong..... and, more than a little ghoulish, unless you are ok with cannibalism.
It is certainly symbolic, just as the fact that you don't literally die when you are baptized.
I don't even know how anyone could believe that to be true.... truly mind-boggling.
It is certainly symbolic, just as the fact that you don't literally die when you are baptized.
I don't even know how anyone could believe that to be true.... truly mind-boggling.
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yes amen Gods goodness leads the believer to repentance
“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”
â€â€Romans‬ â€2:4-9‬ â€KJV‬‬
Gods goodness and forebearance towards us allows us to repent it doesn’t lead us to forget about repenting or pretending sin isn’t a big deal. It doesn’t lead us to not repent but leads us to repent.
Jesus suffered and died for our sins that’s a really good thing to have done , he did it to lead us to repentance and salvation . Not to teach us that we are free to keep sinning , or that we don’t have to repent anymore now
because this is true
“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
â€â€Luke‬ â€13:3‬ â€KJV‬‬
he’s given us the opportunity to repent
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
â€â€2 Peter‬ â€3:9‬ â€KJV‬
it’s why he came
“But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
â€â€Matthew‬ â€9:13‬ â€KJV‬‬
everything Jesus has done is a call to repentance and belief of the gospel especially telling us the truth about sin and death when we’re able to acknolwedge it sets us free if the devils trap
“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
â€â€2 Timothy‬ â€2:25-26‬ â€KJV‬‬
we aren’t supposed to be sinners serving the devils Will in the world , God has shown us the way truth and life so we can repent of serving satan and start walking in faith
“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”
â€â€Romans‬ â€2:4-9‬ â€KJV‬‬
Gods goodness and forebearance towards us allows us to repent it doesn’t lead us to forget about repenting or pretending sin isn’t a big deal. It doesn’t lead us to not repent but leads us to repent.
Jesus suffered and died for our sins that’s a really good thing to have done , he did it to lead us to repentance and salvation . Not to teach us that we are free to keep sinning , or that we don’t have to repent anymore now
because this is true
“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
â€â€Luke‬ â€13:3‬ â€KJV‬‬
he’s given us the opportunity to repent
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
â€â€2 Peter‬ â€3:9‬ â€KJV‬
it’s why he came
“But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
â€â€Matthew‬ â€9:13‬ â€KJV‬‬
everything Jesus has done is a call to repentance and belief of the gospel especially telling us the truth about sin and death when we’re able to acknolwedge it sets us free if the devils trap
“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
â€â€2 Timothy‬ â€2:25-26‬ â€KJV‬‬
we aren’t supposed to be sinners serving the devils Will in the world , God has shown us the way truth and life so we can repent of serving satan and start walking in faith
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it seems like you don’t know much about communion yet honestly. So because you don’t understand it your just here to say there’s nothing to it and no one gets it ??
Not really sure where you stand on communion honestly here’s some scripture to form a foundation for it if your wanting to have info first consider that it must be important because
“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.”
â€â€1 Corinthians‬ â€11:23-29‬ â€KJV‬‬
I think if we accept this scripture to the church from an apostle we can agree communion has some important significance right ? If you want to really grasp it
It’s actually rooted in the high priesthood order of melchezidek and the figure of christs sacrifice of his body and blood under melchezideks priesthood
“And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:”
â€â€Genesis‬ â€14:18-19‬ â€KJV‬‬
this of course is melchezideks only appearance in ot scripture , but the New Testament reveals his ministry and priesthood in the gospel the only “figure “ is the bread and wine melchezidek brought forth in the ot as a figure of christs body and blood. Later we begin to understand it. it went away in the law because the law is of the leviticle order of preists Christ is of the original order of melchezidek before the law
“which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.”
â€â€Hebrews‬ â€6:19-20‬ â€KJV‬‬
So back to the bread and wine of communion
“I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say. The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. “
â€â€1 Corinthians‬ â€10:15-17, 21‬ â€KJV‬‬
When you think of the bread of communion think according to what Jesus said in the gospel concerning the bread of life
“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
… Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. (Revelation 7:16)
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
…It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
â€â€John‬ â€6:29, 32-33, 35, 37-41, 45, 47-51‬ â€KJV‬‬
he says things like this in his ministry along the way
“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.”
â€â€John‬ â€6:51
when you get to this part , your suooosed to have already heard the other stuff that’s what makes communion meaningful of you personal hear about and believe and then partake of it.
What God says about it not what we hear and then dismiss as mindless drizzle but when we’re able to say “ yes that’s pretty clear scripture explaining other scripture maybe there’s something to what it’s saying “ that’s how we start learning about subjects like communion
what I mean is we learn what the Bible says about stuff and accept it to be true and change our thinking. If we hear all the stuff Jesus is saying above about the body and blood , bread and wine when he says this it’s not such a mystery and it’s certainly not meaningless ritual based on what Jesus has said about these things beforehand it’s faith
“And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
â€â€Matthew‬ â€26:26-28‬ â€KJV‬‬
that’s why Paul is teaching what he’s teaching about communion
“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.”
I’m not sure about you but it seems to me that scripture plainly says a lot about this subject but my main point is this if we hear all that scripture and reject it it’s not faith if we hear it and accept and believe and then act by that belief , it’s faith
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
â€â€Romans‬ â€10:17‬ â€
a lot of times we think we understand so we reject what’s plainly written to correct our understanding . A day spent on a study about communion in scripture will give us a good foundation of understanding what it is
Not really sure where you stand on communion honestly here’s some scripture to form a foundation for it if your wanting to have info first consider that it must be important because
“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.”
â€â€1 Corinthians‬ â€11:23-29‬ â€KJV‬‬
I think if we accept this scripture to the church from an apostle we can agree communion has some important significance right ? If you want to really grasp it
It’s actually rooted in the high priesthood order of melchezidek and the figure of christs sacrifice of his body and blood under melchezideks priesthood
“And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:”
â€â€Genesis‬ â€14:18-19‬ â€KJV‬‬
this of course is melchezideks only appearance in ot scripture , but the New Testament reveals his ministry and priesthood in the gospel the only “figure “ is the bread and wine melchezidek brought forth in the ot as a figure of christs body and blood. Later we begin to understand it. it went away in the law because the law is of the leviticle order of preists Christ is of the original order of melchezidek before the law
“which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.”
â€â€Hebrews‬ â€6:19-20‬ â€KJV‬‬
So back to the bread and wine of communion
“I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say. The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. “
â€â€1 Corinthians‬ â€10:15-17, 21‬ â€KJV‬‬
When you think of the bread of communion think according to what Jesus said in the gospel concerning the bread of life
“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
… Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. (Revelation 7:16)
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
…It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
â€â€John‬ â€6:29, 32-33, 35, 37-41, 45, 47-51‬ â€KJV‬‬
he says things like this in his ministry along the way
“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.”
â€â€John‬ â€6:51
when you get to this part , your suooosed to have already heard the other stuff that’s what makes communion meaningful of you personal hear about and believe and then partake of it.
What God says about it not what we hear and then dismiss as mindless drizzle but when we’re able to say “ yes that’s pretty clear scripture explaining other scripture maybe there’s something to what it’s saying “ that’s how we start learning about subjects like communion
what I mean is we learn what the Bible says about stuff and accept it to be true and change our thinking. If we hear all the stuff Jesus is saying above about the body and blood , bread and wine when he says this it’s not such a mystery and it’s certainly not meaningless ritual based on what Jesus has said about these things beforehand it’s faith
“And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
â€â€Matthew‬ â€26:26-28‬ â€KJV‬‬
that’s why Paul is teaching what he’s teaching about communion
“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.”
I’m not sure about you but it seems to me that scripture plainly says a lot about this subject but my main point is this if we hear all that scripture and reject it it’s not faith if we hear it and accept and believe and then act by that belief , it’s faith
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
â€â€Romans‬ â€10:17‬ â€
a lot of times we think we understand so we reject what’s plainly written to correct our understanding . A day spent on a study about communion in scripture will give us a good foundation of understanding what it is
I think you are partly right... I think many times, the "breaking of bread" was with a meal.... but I believe there is evidence that they did partake of the bread and wine as a separate event..
The example Jesus set for us was during the Passover meal.... and he used un-leavened bread and wine to describe how they were his body and blood...
IIRC, un-leavened bread was NOT used at every Jewish meal... only special meals like Passover. Thus, when scripture mentions they came together to break bread, it did not mean it was only for a meal....
OR, Jesus meant for us to only "do communion" at Passover. If you read the early 1st century historians, they mention that the believers would meet on the first day of the week to break bread, which was understood to be the communion. And, it very likely included a meal as well.
The example Jesus set for us was during the Passover meal.... and he used un-leavened bread and wine to describe how they were his body and blood...
IIRC, un-leavened bread was NOT used at every Jewish meal... only special meals like Passover. Thus, when scripture mentions they came together to break bread, it did not mean it was only for a meal....
OR, Jesus meant for us to only "do communion" at Passover. If you read the early 1st century historians, they mention that the believers would meet on the first day of the week to break bread, which was understood to be the communion. And, it very likely included a meal as well.
Maybe that's what repelled many Jews...
John 6:51-52 (KJV) I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
John 6:59-60 (KJV) These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
John 6:66 (KJV) From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
John 6:51-52 (KJV) I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
John 6:59-60 (KJV) These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
John 6:66 (KJV) From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Incorrect. I have spent two years investigating every aspect of eating in the New Testament and the facts reveal the following.......
1. To break bread means to eat a meal.
2. Communion is unknown in the New Testament
3. Passover was once a year not every Sunday
4. It was not understood to be communion.
5. The only thing the Jewish church understood was a meal.
6. There is no evidence that they had bread and wine as a separate event.
7. Unleavened bread was always used on the Sabbath.
8. The bread and wine were not his body as the Jews were forbidden to drink blood and eat flesh so there was no way he was going to tell them to do what the law forbade.
9. You may understand it to be communion but the Jewish church did not.
10. The New Testament Jewish church broke bread every evening to ensure everyone had eaten that day and had not gone hungry. To offer a sip of wine and a piece of bread to someone who was hungry would be an insult.
1. To break bread means to eat a meal.
2. Communion is unknown in the New Testament
3. Passover was once a year not every Sunday
4. It was not understood to be communion.
5. The only thing the Jewish church understood was a meal.
6. There is no evidence that they had bread and wine as a separate event.
7. Unleavened bread was always used on the Sabbath.
8. The bread and wine were not his body as the Jews were forbidden to drink blood and eat flesh so there was no way he was going to tell them to do what the law forbade.
9. You may understand it to be communion but the Jewish church did not.
10. The New Testament Jewish church broke bread every evening to ensure everyone had eaten that day and had not gone hungry. To offer a sip of wine and a piece of bread to someone who was hungry would be an insult.