Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

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Sep 6, 2014
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I don't see anyone disagreeing with the purpose of Christ's sacrifice on the cross....why do you.

Are you saying one needs to do nothing to accept Christ as Savior? When in fact we must do many thing to receive application of John 6;47.
Your deceptive comments prove that you are a dishonest person. They also can not negate biblical truth.

Romans 9:16
So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
 

BeeThePeace

Active member
May 2, 2022
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"For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: 'A dog returns to his own vomit,' and, 'a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.' "—2 Peter 2:18-22

I can't think of a worse fate than to have been regenerated and sealed by the Holy Spirit and then return to the mire. It would indeed have been better to never know the way of righteousness in the first place.
The prodigal son slept in a stye and fought pigs for slop to eat to stay alive.
When he awakened to his wretched state, the mistake he'd made, he went home again. Afraid, humble, filthy, starving, humiliated,ashamed.

When his father saw him he ran and wrapped his arms around him and kissed him. Overjoyed at the return of his precious beloved son who didn't even love himself.

The father ordered a feast, a celebration of his son's return home.

But that prodigal sons brother was bitter and jealous. Thinking it not right at all that the father would cherish the return of a lost wayward son, when his other son had cleaved to his father, followed the rules, and all at that same time as his brother was away carousing and sinning and wasting his inheritance.

We today are no less than the prodigal when we fall in the mire. We are dust. After all. If we get filthy, God knows, yet we're still washed clean by the blood.

Imagine if we turned from God, and God who knows us from before the world began, turned away in return.

There is nothing Omniscience does not know. We plan our way but God sets our steps.
 
J

JAPOV

Guest
"For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (not the SPIRIT!), they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: 'A dog returns to his own vomit,' and, 'a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.' "—2 Peter 2:18-22

I can't think of a worse fate than to have been regenerated and sealed by the Holy Spirit and then return to the mire. It would indeed have been better to never know the way of righteousness in the first place.
 
J

JAPOV

Guest
I don't think it's that complicated. I think you just want to blow smoke. I seriously doubt you yourself read anything more than the chapter headings.
Your KNOWLEDGE, out of CONTEXT, is FAILING you...
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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this son was the real prodigal
Yes, going into that side the of the story, we see how people who keep the law and
do all the things they think they are supposed to do, miss the greater things...
 
Aug 18, 2020
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No. You must remain in the state of grace in order to have salvation. A person becomes saved when they receive the sacrament of baptism which removes the original sin in which everyone is born with. Baptism is usually done when an infant is a few months old and after baptism, one is born again, and one must maintain that state of grace. Committing a mortal sin (sin unto death) cuts you completely off from God and if one was to die in the state of moral sin, then their name will not be in the book of life and will be cast into the lake of fire. If one is in the state of mortal sin, they must repent, which means that they must receive the sacrament of penance (go to confession and do the assigned penance) as well as be truly sorry for one's sins and promise not to sin anymore to be restored back to the state of grace.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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The prodigal son slept in a stye and fought pigs for slop to eat to stay alive.
When he awakened to his wretched state, the mistake he'd made, he went home again. Afraid, humble, filthy, starving, humiliated,ashamed.

When his father saw him he ran and wrapped his arms around him and kissed him. Overjoyed at the return of his precious beloved son who didn't even love himself.

The father ordered a feast, a celebration of his son's return home.

But that prodigal sons brother was bitter and jealous. Thinking it not right at all that the father would cherish the return of a lost wayward son, when his other son had cleaved to his father, followed the rules, and all at that same time as his brother was away carousing and sinning and wasting his inheritance.

We today are no less than the prodigal when we fall in the mire. We are dust. After all. If we get filthy, God knows, yet we're still washed clean by the blood.

Imagine if we turned from God, and God who knows us from before the world began, turned away in return.

There is nothing Omniscience does not know. We plan our way but God sets our steps.
Oh I totally agree.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,318
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A person becomes saved when they receive the sacrament of baptism which removes the original sin in which everyone is born with. Baptism is usually done when an infant is a few months old and after baptism, one is born again, and one must maintain that state of grace.
Can you see the contradiction? If original sin is removed by baptism, why must one maintain their state of grace. If one no longer has the capacity to sin, how can they sin any longer?

And if original sin is removed from them both, why will one go on to lead a righteous life and the other a life of sin?
 
Feb 24, 2022
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No. You must remain in the state of grace in order to have salvation. A person becomes saved when they receive the sacrament of baptism which removes the original sin in which everyone is born with. Baptism is usually done when an infant is a few months old and after baptism, one is born again, and one must maintain that state of grace. Committing a mortal sin (sin unto death) cuts you completely off from God and if one was to die in the state of moral sin, then their name will not be in the book of life and will be cast into the lake of fire. If one is in the state of mortal sin, they must repent, which means that they must receive the sacrament of penance (go to confession and do the assigned penance) as well as be truly sorry for one's sins and promise not to sin anymore to be restored back to the state of grace.
Matt. 7:23: I NEVER knew you, depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!
Rom 8:39 - ... nor ANY CREATED THING shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The conclusion is pretty obvious. Once saved, always saved. Not saved, never saved.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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Salvation is Jesus on the Cross.
The initial result of being saved, is that Jesus is in You, and you become a "temple of the Holy Spirit"?
The final result, until you die, or are Raptured, is that you are born again.

Can you "lose" that?

Listen,

Born again is a "Birth".
Can you lose a birth?

Jesus is joined, spiritually, to the Spirit of a born again believer, whose spirit has been made alive by the Life that is Christ.
Did you do that?
If you did, then you can change it.
If you can't, and you can't......and you are on a Christian forum arguing that you have the power to undo what God has done, or worse, you are trying to deceive believers into thinking they can lose their salvation, then you're a fool.
This right here
Born again is a "Birth".
Can you lose a birth?

Is by far the best argument for osas i have heard and honestly your entire post was brilliant
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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No. You must remain in the state of grace in order to have salvation. A person becomes saved when they receive the sacrament of baptism which removes the original sin in which everyone is born with. Baptism is usually done when an infant is a few months old and after baptism, one is born again, and one must maintain that state of grace. Committing a mortal sin (sin unto death) cuts you completely off from God and if one was to die in the state of moral sin, then their name will not be in the book of life and will be cast into the lake of fire. If one is in the state of mortal sin, they must repent, which means that they must receive the sacrament of penance (go to confession and do the assigned penance) as well as be truly sorry for one's sins and promise not to sin anymore to be restored back to the state of grace.
You are all mixed up. I suspect you are just a confused catholic. Iv's seen you post the Hail Mary, and now this pure catholic dogma here.

You also say this on your profile "To me, it does not matter what you believe in just as long as you are loving, caring, honest, and kind on the inside and accepts me as I am as well as others as they are."

It ABSOLUTELY matters what, or Who somebody believes in. What you really need is THE Gospel unto Salvation:

God wrapped Himself in human flesh in the form of His Son, Jesus the Messiah. Conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin. He suffered, was crucified, and died to pay OUR sin debt. He was raised to life from the grave to prove He had defeated death. If you confess Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that His Father resurrected Him to Life on the 3rd day, you WILL be saved. You will be filled, and sealed with the Holy Spirit, who will empower ALL to turn from their sins. The sin of adultery, lying, stealing, homosexuality, gossip, slander, drunkenness, covetousness, etc... And most importantly the sin of DEAD works, or a moral life in an attempt to EARN Salvation. He will also equip you to love like He did and do good works for HIS Glory.
 
May 22, 2020
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Your deceptive comments prove that you are a dishonest person. They also can not negate biblical truth.

Romans 9:16
So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Your comments are purely self serving and not for witness of God's word. .
 
Jan 31, 2021
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To NOT believe in eternal security from the moment of saving faith in Jesus Christ is to reject the very words of Jesus Christ.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

We see several FACTS in these words of Jesus Christ:

1. whoever hears and believes POSSESSES (has) eternal life.
2. those who possess eternal life "will not be judged".
3. those who possess eternal life "have crossed over from (spiritual) death to (eternal life). Because they possess eternal life.

So, to negate eternal security, one must find a verse that plainly teaches that eternal life can be removed. There aren't any.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

This verse is the clincher on eternal security.

Jesus was very clear:

1. He is the giver of eternal life.
2. Those given eternal life (recipients) SHALL NEVER PERISH.

Black.and.white.

So, everyone who believes that salvation can be lost has rejected these words of Jesus Christ. I have to wonder how these people view the sin of outright rejecting clear words of Jesus on their salvation.

Also, anyone who believes they have a verse that does indicate that salvation can be lost are basically saying that the Bible is internally contradicted.

They will have to live with that.
 

kenallen

Active member
Apr 8, 2022
437
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No. You must remain in the state of grace in order to have salvation. A person becomes saved when they receive the sacrament of baptism which removes the original sin in which everyone is born with. Baptism is usually done when an infant is a few months old and after baptism, one is born again, and one must maintain that state of grace. Committing a mortal sin (sin unto death) cuts you completely off from God and if one was to die in the state of moral sin, then their name will not be in the book of life and will be cast into the lake of fire. If one is in the state of mortal sin, they must repent, which means that they must receive the sacrament of penance (go to confession and do the assigned penance) as well as be truly sorry for one's sins and promise not to sin anymore to be restored back to the state of grace.
That water does as good as the blood of goats and lambs. That did not work either
 
Nov 26, 2021
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India
I did not know Calvin professed to be completely loyal to the teaching of St. Augustine as a quote of his showed earlier. Regardless, Calvin imho disagree with St. Augustine on several important points. For e.g. St. Augustine taught the justified can fall from the Faith.

Chapter I: "I Have now to consider the subject of perseverance with greater care; for in the former book also I said some things on this subject when I was discussing the beginning of faith. I assert, therefore, that the perseverance by which we persevere in Christ even to the end is the gift of God; and I call that the end by which is finished that life wherein alone there is peril of falling. Therefore it is uncertain whether any one has received this gift so long as he is still alive. For if he fall before he dies, he is, of course, said not to have persevered; and most truly is it said. How, then, should he be said to have received or to have had perseverance who has not persevered? For if any one have continence, and fall away from that virtue and become incontinent — or, in like manner, if he have righteousness, if patience, if even faith, and fall away, he is rightly said to have had these virtues and to have them no longer; for he was continent, or he was righteous, or he was patient, or he was believing, as long as he was so; but when he ceased to be so, he no longer is what he was. But how should he who has not persevered have ever been persevering, since it is only by persevering that any one shows himself persevering — and this he has not done? But lest any one should object to this, and say, If from the time at which any one became a believer he has lived — for the sake of argument — ten years, and in the midst of them has fallen from the faith, has he not persevered for five years? I am not contending about words. If it be thought that this also should be called perseverance, as it were for so long as it lasts, assuredly he is not to be said to have had in any degree that perseverance of which we are now discoursing, by which one perseveres in Christ even to the end. And the believer of one year, or of a period as much shorter as may be conceived of, if he has lived faithfully until he died, has rather had this perseverance than the believer of many years' standing, if a little time before his death he has fallen away from the steadfastness of his faith." https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/15121.htm

St. Augustine taught Justification/Sanctification PLUS Perseverance = Full Salvation. That means, if you persevere, you are saved. And if you are granted perseverance (which St. Augustine said no one can know for certain), the only way you prove it is by persevering.

Free Grace said:
Also, anyone who believes they have a verse that does indicate that salvation can be lost are basically saying that the Bible is internally contradicted.
Strictly speaking, it is not "salvation" that can be lost. It is Justification/Sanctification that can be lost.

Can you explain Hebrews 10:29? It speaks of those truly Sanctified by the Blood of Christ who fell away.

They did not lose Salvation (Justification+Perseverance), they lost Sanctification alone, which they once had.

Regarding John 10, there the Lord is speaking of those He gives the Gift of Perseverance. These will never perish.

Recall that the Lord had said: "Many are called, but few are chosen". Many are called to Justification, but few are chosen for Perseverance. I think Calvin may have wanted to follow Augustine, but unfortunately he confused Justification and Perseverance.

God Bless.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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You may not be able to be unborn after you're born but you can commit suicide.
fair point. I suppose in the end it all boils down to who you trust your salvation in the efforts of the cross or your own efforts. Does one believe in the finished works of the cross or do they rely on their works to keep their salvation?