Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[ResidentAlien]

"For I did not draw back from declaring to you the whole counsel of God."—Acts 20:27

Salvation comes by faith, but that's not the end. We must endure to the end or else our faith has been shipwrecked. That doesn't mean we can become more "righteous" or more "justified" by our actions; it just means we remain faithful. The Lord demands faithfulness to the end.

 

[peldom10]

I do. Why? Because who ever heard of being reverted from Spiritually Circumcised to unCircumcised? Or, do we not understand this core doctrine of the Bible?

If you are using...spiritually circumcised as born again.........Scripture tells us in many different ways that a person can loose their ...born again...status.

 

[Magenta]

Galatians 5:14-15~ The entire law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
But if you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out, or you will be consumed by one another.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Galatians 5:14-15~ The entire law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
But if you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out, or you will be consumed by one another.

I happen to like the way that you and I "talk" to one another, here. There is never hostility; there's no need for it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
This is twisting the Word. Please don't do that.

There is NOTHING in v.27 that results in your false understanding of v.28. You are trying to force v.27 to be a condition for getting eteranl life.

Yet, read John3:15,16 and 5:24. All of them say plainly that those who believe possess eternal life.

Perplexing.

Yes, it is very perplexing when believers can't read verses correctly. Nothing in John 10:27 that amounts to a condition for receiving eternal life. That is addressed in the verses I cited.

v.27 is a description of what His sheep DO. Nothing more.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said "The sheep who hear Christ's voice and follow him are given eternal life and they shall never perish!"
I do not think this statement makes any "condition" - I think it is just stating clearly what the text says.

No, the text does NOT say that. You are trying to make hearing and following a condition for receiving eternal life.

In v.27 Jesus describes what His sheep DO. v.28 tells us the result of being given eternal life.

Those who disagree with this are basically admitting that they can't read so well.

Do you not agree that The sheep who hear Christ's voice and follow him are given eternal life and they shall never perish! ??

No, I do not agree. Jesus began v.27 with the words "My sheep". That means they are already saved. The rest of v.27 describes what saved people DO, or OUGHT TO DO.

The point of v.28 is about recipients of eternal life. Jesus says He gives His sheep eternal life. He didn' say those sheep who hear and follow. It's about believing, which John 3:15, 16 and 5:24 clearly says.

Those who believe possess eternal life. And they shall never perish.

Why don't you believe this?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why do you fight so hard to place YOUR WISHES above what scripture says?

Why do you misunderstand my position so badly? Nothing of what I say is about my wishes. You are sadly mistaken.

Only those who believe receive the blessings of Christ.

Agreed!

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

How do you read this over and over and still not get it???

Oh, but I do get it. Condemnation is only for those who "have not believed". Do you know what that means?

And yet you state you do understand the difference between sufficient and efficacious. I really don't think you do.

Too bad what you opine.

Please tell me what John 3:18 and it' parallel verse, 2 Thess 2:12, means.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Scripture tells us in many different ways that a person can loose their ...born again...status.

No, it doesn't. But since you claim it does, please share the BEST MOST CLEAR verses that actually state that a born gain person can lose salvation.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

FreeGrace2 said:
This is twisting the Word. Please don't do that.

There is NOTHING in v.27 that results in your false understanding of v.28. You are trying to force v.27 to be a condition for getting eteranl life.

Yet, read John3:15,16 and 5:24. All of them say plainly that those who believe possess eternal life.

Yes, it is very perplexing when believers can't read verses correctly. Nothing in John 10:27 that amounts to a condition for receiving eternal life. That is addressed in the verses I cited.

v.27 is a description of what His sheep DO. Nothing more.

It would serve you well to study Spiritual Circumcision, perhaps write a thirty page report on the subject. Until you understand this core doctrine, you will continue to fall short.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It would serve you well to study Spiritual Circumcision, perhaps write a thirty page report on the subject. Until you understand this core doctrine, you will continue to fall short.

Then go ahead and prove your presumption that v.27 is a condition for being given eternal life.

Can you do that? I can tell you confidently that there are NO verses that show that there are any actions of work or effort that will result in being given eternal life.

Consider these few verses:

John 3:15,16
15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

Please read these 4 verses and tell me what the condition is for possessing eternal life.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Then go ahead and prove your presumption that v.27 is a condition for being given eternal life.

Can you do that? I can tell you confidently that there are NO verses that show that there are any actions of work or effort that will result in being given eternal life.

Consider these few verses:

John 3:15,16
15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

Please read these 4 verses and tell me what the condition is for possessing eternal life.

You are spinning yourself into the ground and working your way into an emotional lather. The answer for obtaining salvation is in verse 27. But in order to understand this answer, you'd have to understand spiritual circumcision.

 

[peldom10]

It would serve you well to study Spiritual Circumcision, perhaps write a thirty page report on the subject. Until you understand this core doctrine, you will continue to fall short.

That would be too developmental for him............. so, unfortunately, don't expect it.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It's not hard at all. Why do you question me?


Well, that is your opinion. Jesus was making it very clear that Judas wasn't saved. He hadn't had that "bath" that Peter wanted again.

“Jesus died for my sins,” that’s Christianity summed up in five words. If Jesus hadn’t atoned for the sins of mankind YET, then no one was saved YET. Judas hanged himself before the crucifixion. You’ve got the basics wrong.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Then go ahead and prove your presumption that v.27 is a condition for being given eternal life.

Can you do that? I can tell you confidently that there are NO verses that show that there are any actions of work or effort that will result in being given eternal life.

You are spinning yourself into the ground and working your way into an emotional lather.

lol. I simply asked you to prove your claim that John 10:27 provides a condition for receiving eternal life. And you can't, so you "go low" and try to defame me more. How sad.

The answer for obtaining salvation is in verse 27.

And you cannot prove your opinion.

But in order to understand this answer, you'd have to understand spiritual circumcision.

Said one of the "elites" who claims they ALONE have answers, but that no one else can understand them.

What a croc that is.

Anyone with a basic knowledge of English and grammar KNOWS that v.27 is NOT a condition for receiving eternal life.

The condition for receiving eternal life is clearly stated in John 3:15,16, 3:18, 5:24, 6:47. That single condition is to believe.

v.27 begins with "My sheep", so Jesus is simply describing what His sheep DO, or OUGHT TO DO.

So v.27 opens with those who have already been given eternal life, per the 5 verses above.

So again, hearing and following describe what His sheep DO, and are NOT a condition for receiving eternal life.

You may consider yourself one of the "spiritual elites", but you don't know the Scriptures.

 

[FreeGrace2]

“Jesus died for my sins,” that’s Christianity summed up in five words. If Jesus hadn’t atoned for the sins of mankind YET, then no one was saved YET. Judas hanged himself before the crucifixion. You’ve got the basics wrong.

What are you talking about? What is all this "yet" business?

Are you actually suggesting that NO ONE was saved before Jesus died for sins? That would be ridiculous.

All the OT saints were saved and are in heaven. Awaiting the resurrection.

Yes, Jesus died for your sins. And the sins of everyone else too. 1 John 2:2 says so.

So you can forget your "yet" business. Whatever that meant.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

What are you talking about? What is all this "yet" business?

Are you actually suggesting that NO ONE was saved before Jesus died for sins? That would be ridiculous.

All the OT saints were saved and are in heaven. Awaiting the resurrection.

Yes, Jesus died for your sins. And the sins of everyone else too. 1 John 2:2 says so.

So you can forget your "yet" business. Whatever that meant.

So you're suggesting that one can be saved without Jesus's atonement for sins? BEFORE he was born? Anointed? And crucified? The truth is, Jesus conquered death (Rev 1:18) and set those OT saints free from Hades, that was in Isaiah 61:1-2 which Jesus quoted. You're the one who's making a ridiculous claim.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

lol. I simply asked you to prove your claim that John 10:27 provides a condition for receiving eternal life. And you can't, so you "go low" and try to defame me more. How sad.

I have no idea of what you're talking about. But as long as you think things are funny, that's good . . . I guess.

 

[HatedForNoReason]

What are you talking about? What is all this "yet" business?

Are you actually suggesting that NO ONE was saved before Jesus died for sins? That would be ridiculous.

All the OT saints were saved and are in heaven. Awaiting the resurrection.

Yes, Jesus died for your sins. And the sins of everyone else too. 1 John 2:2 says so.

So you can forget your "yet" business. Whatever that meant.

Before the world was created, God wrote down all God's elects names (includes old testament saints and new testament saints) in the lamb's book of life. Jesus sows his elect into the world to be born. Some point in their life God gives the Holy Spirit to them and replaces the sinful nature with Jesus holy nature.


1 John 2:19
King James Version

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest (revealed that they are goats=nonelects=God has never given them the Holy Spirit) that they were not all of us.

Vast majority of the world's population are nonelects.

https://www.gotquestions.org/calvinism.html

Total Depravity - As a result of Adam’s fall, the entire human race is affected; all humanity is dead in trespasses and sins. Man is unable to save himself (Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-18).

Unconditional Election - Because man is dead in sin, he is unable to initiate a response to God; therefore, in eternity past God elected certain people to salvation. Election and predestination are unconditional; they are not based on man’s response (Romans 8:29-30;9:11; Ephesians 1:4-6, 11-12) because man is unable to respond, nor does he want to.

Limited Atonement - Because God determined that certain ones should be saved as a result of God’s unconditional election, He determined that Christ should die for the elect alone. All whom God has elected and for whom Christ died will be saved (Matthew 1:21; John 10:11; 17:9; Acts 20:28; Romans 8:32; Ephesians 5:25).

Irresistible Grace - Those whom God elected He draws to Himself through irresistible grace. God makes man willing to come to Him. When God calls, man responds (John 6:37, 44; 10:16).

Perseverance of the Saints - The precise ones God has elected and drawn to Himself through the Holy Spirit will persevere in faith. None whom God has elected will be lost; they are eternally secure (John 10:27-29; Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:3-14).

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
What are you talking about? What is all this "yet" business?

Are you actually suggesting that NO ONE was saved before Jesus died for sins?

So you're suggesting that one can be saved without Jesus's atonement for sins?

NO. And this isn't an answer to my question to YOU. Please explain all those "yets" in your post. That is my question.

BEFORE he was born? Anointed? And crucified? The truth is, Jesus conquered death (Rev 1:18) and set those OT saints free from Hades, that was in Isaiah 61:1-2 which Jesus quoted.

Please just answer my question regarding the "yets".

You're the one who's making a ridiculous claim.

No, I am asking you for clarification. That's NOT a claim of any kind.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Before the world was created, God wrote down all God's elects names (includes old testament saints and new testament saints) in the lamb's book of life. Jesus sows his elect into the world to be born. Some point in their life God gives the Holy Spirit to them and replaces the sinful nature with Jesus holy nature.

First, election isn't about being chosen unconditionally for salvation. It is about being chosen for service.

Second, can you provide biblical evidence for your claim that the sinful nature is replaced with Jesus' holy nature?

Total Depravity - As a result of Adam’s fall, the entire human race is affected; all humanity is dead in trespasses and sins. Man is unable to save himself (Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-18).

It is true that man is unable to save himself. However, the Bible doesn't teach that man is unable to believe the gospel.

Unconditional Election - Because man is dead in sin, he is unable to initiate a response to God; therefore, in eternity past God elected certain people to salvation. Election and predestination are unconditional; they are not based on man’s response (Romans 8:29-30;9:11; Ephesians 1:4-6, 11-12) because man is unable to respond, nor does he want to.

Every verse about salvation mentions faith or believing. That is a condition, so the calvinist claim is unbiblical. And proves that election isn't to salvation.

Limited Atonement - Because God determined that certain ones should be saved as a result of God’s unconditional election, He determined that Christ should die for the elect alone. All whom God has elected and for whom Christ died will be saved (Matthew 1:21; John 10:11; 17:9; Acts 20:28; Romans 8:32; Ephesians 5:25).

None of these verses says Jesus died for ONLY some. In fact a number of verses says plainly that He died for all, meaning everyone.

John 1:29, 4:42, 2 Cor 5:14,15 19, 1 Tim 2:3-6, Heb 2:9, 1 John 2:2.

Irresistible Grace - Those whom God elected He draws to Himself through irresistible grace. God makes man willing to come to Him. When God calls, man responds (John 6:37, 44; 10:16).

Again, these verses don't teach that grace is irresistible. It was by grace that Jesus died for all, and yet not all are saved. proving this point is unbiblical.

Perseverance of the Saints - The precise ones God has elected and drawn to Himself through the Holy Spirit will persevere in faith. None whom God has elected will be lost; they are eternally secure (John 10:27-29; Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:3-14).

Eternal security is absolutely biblical!! However, perseverance is commanded in the Bible. So it is not guaranteed or automatic.