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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,299
26,340
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#22
True.

This "God's love is unconditional" thing is definitely false.

You basically nailed the condition in your post that I quoted.
You confuse a condition of salvation for being that of love.

You may as well say God does not love sinners.

I say otherwise.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,383
639
113
#23
You confuse a condition of salvation for being that of love.

You may as well say God does not love sinners.

I say otherwise.
Psalm 5

[1] Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.
[2] Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.
[3] My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O LORD; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.
[4] For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
[5] The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
[6] Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
[7] But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.
[8] Lead me, O LORD, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face.
[9] For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.
[10] Destroy thou them, O God; let them fall by their own counsels; cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions; for they have rebelled against thee.
[11] But let all those that put their trust in thee rejoice: let them ever shout for joy, because thou defendest them: let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee.
[12] For thou, LORD, wilt bless the righteous; with favour wilt thou compass him as with a shield.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,299
26,340
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#24
Romans 5:8
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.


John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,


1 Timothy 1:15
The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus
came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.


1 John 4:8
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.


1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.


Titus 3:5
He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to
his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,


1 Timothy 2:4
Who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


Ephesians 2:4-5
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we
were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—


1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,299
26,340
113
#25
Psalm 5

[1] Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.
[2] Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.
[3] My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O LORD; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.
[4] For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
[5] The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
[6] Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
[7] But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.
[8] Lead me, O LORD, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face.
[9] For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.
[10] Destroy thou them, O God; let them fall by their own counsels; cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions; for they have rebelled against thee.
[11] But let all those that put their trust in thee rejoice: let them ever shout for joy, because thou defendest them: let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee.
[12] For thou, LORD, wilt bless the righteous; with favour wilt thou compass him as with a shield.
And?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,299
26,340
113
#26

From Ephesians 2:4-7
Since you believe God's love is conditional, do you believe you did something to merit His favor?

I had someone just yesterday telling me the same thing. Scripture says there are none righteous.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,610
13,019
113
#29
Where do we find in preaching the Gospel in the Book of Acts the apostles saying to a crowd, “Jesus loves you”?
Not everything that was said or preached by the apostles was necessarily recorded. So that is not a valid question. On the other hand the first epistle of John (as well as his Gospel) speaks about the love of God over and over again. The preaching of the cross -- which was central to the Gospel message -- implies the love, grace, mercy, and kindness of God.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,610
13,019
113
#30
...otherwise we would have to say God loves those He sends to hell.
Actually they send themselves to Hell. Since the Gospel is there to prevent people from going to Hell, anyone who fails to heed or obey the Gospel chooses to reject eternal life. And the book of Romans says that all are without excuse (from God's perspective). Since God loved "the world" of humanity (John 3:16,17) anyone who denies that makes Christ a liar.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,650
113
#31
That's the condition for salvation.

What part of "unconditional love" do you not understand? :unsure:
I guess I don’t understand that God loves unconditionally ‘except’ those He doesn’t save.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,650
113
#32
Not everything that was said or preached by the apostles was necessarily recorded. So that is not a valid question. On the other hand the first epistle of John (as well as his Gospel) speaks about the love of God over and over again. The preaching of the cross -- which was central to the Gospel message -- implies the love, grace, mercy, and kindness of God.
I"m not referring to the ‘love of God’ towards believers as in the first epistle of John.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,650
113
#33
Actually they send themselves to Hell. Since the Gospel is there to prevent people from going to Hell, anyone who fails to heed or obey the Gospel chooses to reject eternal life. And the book of Romans says that all are without excuse (from God's perspective). Since God loved "the world" of humanity (John 3:16,17) anyone who denies that makes Christ a liar.
Send themselves to hell? Verse 18 says they are condemned already…

John 3:18 ESV
[18] Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
6,064
1,742
113
#34
Send themselves to hell? Verse 18 says they are condemned already…

John 3:18 ESV
[18] Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 81 lets us in on God's sentiments

8Hear, O My people, and I will warn you:
O Israel, if only you would listen to Me!
9There must be no strange god among you,
nor shall you bow to a foreign god.
10I am the LORD your God,
who brought you up out of Egypt.
Open wide your mouth,
and I will fill it.
11But My people would not listen to Me,
and Israel would not obey Me.
12So I gave them up to their stubborn hearts
to follow their own devices.
13If only My people would listen to Me,
if Israel would follow My ways,
14how soon I would subdue their enemies
and turn My hand against their foes!
15Those who hate the LORD would feign obedience,
and their doom would last forever.
16But I would feed you the finest wheat;
with honey from the rock I would satisfy you.”

God provides us space for repentance. What is that if it isn't love?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,299
26,340
113
#35
I guess I don’t understand that God loves unconditionally ‘except’ those He doesn’t save.
I don't understand why you keep confusing/conflating love with salvation.

Salvation is conditional.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,299
26,340
113
#36
Mark 10:17-22 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.
"Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus
answered.
"No one is good-except God alone. You know the commandments: 'You shall not murder,
you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not
defraud, honor your father and mother.'"
"Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy."
Jesus looked at him and loved him.
"One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give
to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
At this the man's face fell.
He went away sad, because he had great wealth.


Do you think Jesus did not know what this rich young ruler's response would be?

Do you think Jesus was momentarily fooled into loving this guy because the rich young
ruler thought he deserved eternal life based on following the letter of the law? And
that after the rich young ruler walked away sad, do you think Jesus no longer loved him?


Or did Jesus love this rich young ruler regardless of the fact that he knew he was not going to do what Jesus asked of him?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,299
26,340
113
#37
I"m not referring to the ‘love of God’ towards believers as in the first epistle of John.
What did you do to merit God's love before you came to believe?

Or did God not love you until you loved Him?
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
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India
#38
I think preaching the Love of God is very important. It's why John 3:16 is one of the most beloved verses there is among believers and non-believers alike. The Gospel is Good News after all, not bad news! the Good News is that God is a Loving Father! The Good News is that God loved us so much that He came down Himself to be the Sacrifice for our sins. the Love and Goodness of God leads us to repentance.

Rom 2:4 "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?"

After people have heard of the Love of God, then yes, they have to repent and turn back from the path they are going on. We love, because He first loved us, as John the Apostle says in His Epistle. Because He loved us, we are drawn to love Him and love our neighbor.

God Bless.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,610
13,019
113
#40
I"m not referring to the ‘love of God’ towards believers as in the first epistle of John.
What about the love of God for humanity as in John 3:16,17? One should not conveniently forget some Scriptures because they refute our false beliefs. What about the Parables about (a) the Lost Coin, (b) the Lost Sheep, and (c) the Lost Prodigal Son?