Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[justpassinthrough]

Not sure why you quoted me on this

I‘m just discussing these things with you.


Do you agree with what I wrote or disagree?




JLB

 

[PennEd]

Here is what Peter preached on the day of Pentecost —


Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. Acts 2:38-40


Where do we find the word “atoned for sin” in Peter’s message?


There is no doubt that at some point those who were saved, were taught from the scriptures about Jesus being the blood sacrifice for sins, as Paul taught the Gentiles who had repented.


For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4


The Gospel is preached to the unsaved.

Those who are saved are taught from the scriptures.



Jesus death doesn’t “atone” for our sins.

The blood of animals in the Old Testament atoned for sin.

atone means “cover”; like pitch on a roof covers the roof.

The blood of Jesus “takes away” (removes, washes away) our sin.

But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Hebrews 10:3-4


Here is what Paul was sent to preach —


But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20



Where is the phrase “atoned for sin” in Jesus’ commission to Paul, or is Paul’s response?



Only those who repent and obey the Gospel and continue to obey Jesus Christ, will receive eternal salvation.




He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2 John 9






JLB

Hey! That's all great, except it STILL didn't answer the question.

Here is what you said. So I'm asking you if Jesus sent them out to preach THE Gospel unto Salvation, BEFORE HIS DEATH AND RESURRECTION, please show me where they preached the need to acknowledge His death, as payment for their sin debt, and resurrection.
And if you can't, then acknowledge they DIDN'T preach THE Gospel unto Salvation, but rather the Good News that THEIR Messiah was here, and ready to rule over them if they accepted Him. Which they didn't, which resulted in His death, which resulted in ALL of our sin debt being paid.

And He called the twelve to Himself, and began to send them out two by two, and gave them power over unclean spirits. He commanded them to take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bag, no bread, no copper in their money belts— but to wear sandals, and not to put on two tunics.
Also He said to them, “In whatever place you enter a house, stay there till you depart from that place. And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!”
So they went out and preached that people should repent. And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many who were sick, and healed them.
Mark 6:7-13

• The Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Gospel He and His Apostles preached, will continue to be preached to the end of this age.

I'll wait.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Hey! That's all great, except it STILL didn't answer the question.

Here is what you said. So I'm asking you if Jesus sent them out to preach THE Gospel unto Salvation, BEFORE HIS DEATH AND RESURRECTION, please show me where they preached the need to acknowledge His death, as payment for their sin debt, and resurrection.
And if you can't, then acknowledge they DIDN'T preach THE Gospel unto Salvation, but rather the Good News that THEIR Messiah was here, and ready to rule over them if they accepted Him. Which they didn't, which resulted in His death, which resulted in ALL of our sin debt being paid.

I'll wait.

No need to wait. I'll jump right in. The answer is "no". The great commission was given to the 11, and later, to Paul, after His death and resurrection.

 

[Snacks]

Do you agree with what I wrote or disagree?

Both

 

[justpassinthrough]

Hey! That's all great, except it STILL didn't answer the question.

Here is what you said. So I'm asking you if Jesus sent them out to preach THE Gospel unto Salvation, BEFORE HIS DEATH AND RESURRECTION, please show me where they preached the need to acknowledge His death, as payment for their sin debt, and resurrection.
And if you can't, then acknowledge they DIDN'T preach THE Gospel unto Salvation, but rather the Good News that THEIR Messiah was here, and ready to rule over them if they accepted Him. Which they didn't, which resulted in His death, which resulted in ALL of our sin debt being paid.



I'll wait.

There is only one Gospel. The Gospel of Jesus Christ; the Gospel He preached.


The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the Gospel of salvation. He sent His disciples to preach the Gospel, both before and after His death and resurrection.


One Gospel.


Here is the Gospel He sent His disciples to preach.

Before His death and resurrection—


Then He called His twelve disciples together and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases. He sent them to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. And He said to them, “Take nothing for the journey, neither staffs nor bag nor bread nor money; and do not have two tunics apiece.
“Whatever house you enter, stay there, and from there depart. And whoever will not receive you, when you go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet as a testimony against them.”
So they departed and went through the towns, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere. Luke 9:1-6


And He called the twelve to Himself, and began to send them out two by two, and gave them power over unclean spirits. He commanded them to take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bag, no bread, no copper in their money belts— but to wear sandals, and not to put on two tunics.
Also He said to them, “In whatever place you enter a house, stay there till you depart from that place. And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!”
So they went out and preached that people should repent. And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many who were sick, and healed them.
Mark 6:7-13



After His death and resurrection —



Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38


So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.Acts 26:15-20



There is one Gospel; The Gospel of Jesus Christ, the same Gospel of the kingdom of God He preached.


The Gospel must contain the word repent, or it’s not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.



JLB

 

[PennEd]

There is only one Gospel. The Gospel of Jesus Christ; the Gospel He preached.


The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the Gospel of salvation. He sent His disciples to preach the Gospel, both before and after His death and resurrection.


One Gospel.


Here is the Gospel He sent His disciples to preach.

Before His death and resurrection—


Then He called His twelve disciples together and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases. He sent them to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. And He said to them, “Take nothing for the journey, neither staffs nor bag nor bread nor money; and do not have two tunics apiece.
“Whatever house you enter, stay there, and from there depart. And whoever will not receive you, when you go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet as a testimony against them.”
So they departed and went through the towns, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere. Luke 9:1-6


And He called the twelve to Himself, and began to send them out two by two, and gave them power over unclean spirits. He commanded them to take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bag, no bread, no copper in their money belts— but to wear sandals, and not to put on two tunics.
Also He said to them, “In whatever place you enter a house, stay there till you depart from that place. And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!”
So they went out and preached that people should repent. And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many who were sick, and healed them.
Mark 6:7-13



After His death and resurrection —



Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38


So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.Acts 26:15-20



There is one Gospel; The Gospel of Jesus Christ, the same Gospel of the kingdom of God He preached.


The Gospel must contain the word repent, or it’s not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.



JLB

STILL haven't showed me where they preached THE Gospel unto Salvation.

Do it!

Where did they preach Jesus' death for the payment of sin, and belief in His Resurrection BEFORE his death?


Stop dancing, obfuscating, and avoidance of the question. Point to where, or concede.

 

[TMS]

OSAS is not biblical.

Jesus has done all and wants to save all.
But He also said we need to repent and believe.
Even the devil believes but he will not be saved because he has not repented.

We have a choice. If we want to be saved and live in a kingdom ruled by Christ we are told what to do.

Like the days of Noah, people had a choice. They didn't need to build a boat, just needed to believe and get on the boat before the door closed. We can choose today also.

 

[PennEd]

OSAS is not biblical.

Jesus has done all and wants to save all.
But He also said we need to repent and believe.
Even the devil believes but he will not be saved because he has not repented.

We have a choice. If we want to be saved and live in a kingdom ruled by Christ we are told what to do.

Like the days of Noah, people had a choice. They didn't need to build a boat, just needed to believe and get on the boat before the door closed. We can choose today also.

Repent of what?

 

[Evmur]

There is only one Gospel. The Gospel of Jesus Christ; the Gospel He preached.


The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the Gospel of salvation. He sent His disciples to preach the Gospel, both before and after His death and resurrection.


One Gospel.


Here is the Gospel He sent His disciples to preach.

Before His death and resurrection—


Then He called His twelve disciples together and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases. He sent them to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. And He said to them, “Take nothing for the journey, neither staffs nor bag nor bread nor money; and do not have two tunics apiece.
“Whatever house you enter, stay there, and from there depart. And whoever will not receive you, when you go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet as a testimony against them.”
So they departed and went through the towns, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere. Luke 9:1-6


And He called the twelve to Himself, and began to send them out two by two, and gave them power over unclean spirits. He commanded them to take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bag, no bread, no copper in their money belts— but to wear sandals, and not to put on two tunics.
Also He said to them, “In whatever place you enter a house, stay there till you depart from that place. And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!”
So they went out and preached that people should repent. And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many who were sick, and healed them.
Mark 6:7-13



After His death and resurrection —



Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38


So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.Acts 26:15-20



There is one Gospel; The Gospel of Jesus Christ, the same Gospel of the kingdom of God He preached.


The Gospel must contain the word repent, or it’s not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.



JLB

With great respect this is to make the word REPENT a stumbling block.

Repent simply means to change direction, change your mind. Before you didn't believe now believe, that is repentance.

When you are witnessing for Christ you will of course get a mixed reception, we live for the ones who become interested in what you are saying, they want to know more about this Jesus ... will He help me? they are repenting, they are turning ... don't now throw a great rock in their path. Much evangelism fails at this point.

There is hardly a man or woman born who does not understand that if they are to get help from God they must first be forgiven ... show them the cross and they can see the place where their sins can be put away. Get to praying, get them praying, get them calling upon the Lord.

.... they will get saved

For the Jailer it is "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved"

 

[FreeGrace2]

OSAS is not biblical.

There is NO OTHER reasonable or rational way to understand what Jesus said in John 5:24 with 10:28.

Jesus has done all and wants to save all.
But He also said we need to repent and believe.

The Greek "repent" means to change your mind. Believing means trusting. These are NOT works or deeds of any kind.

To "repent and believe" are simply the means of receiving what God is offering. When a gift is received, the recipient did NOTHING to receive the gift. Taking the gift does NOT equal earning the gift or working for the gift.

[QUOT]Even the devil believes but he will not be saved because he has not repented.[/QUOTE]
This is not what James was talking about. The sole issue in James 2:19 was about monotheism, that "God is One". That's what the devil believes, because God created him in heaven and the devil experienced the Trinity. So he knows from experience, NOT faith.

So 2:19 isn't even about "faith" for salvation.

 

[TMS]

All have sinned
We all need to repent.
We need to "Choose" to follow Jesus and not be the servent of sin.

Do we have a choice as to who we serve.

If Jesus forces us to serve Him then that is not my choice it is a dictatorship.

 

[Evmur]

All have sinned
We all need to repent.
We need to "Choose" to follow Jesus and not be the servent of sin.

Do we have a choice as to who we serve.

If Jesus forces us to serve Him then that is not my choice it is a dictatorship.

With man it would be tyranny but not with God for He is entitled as Creator.

 

[TMS]

There is NO OTHER reasonable or rational way to understand what Jesus said in John 5:24 with 10:28.


The Greek "repent" means to change your mind. Believing means trusting. These are NOT works or deeds of any kind.

To "repent and believe" are simply the means of receiving what God is offering. When a gift is received, the recipient did NOTHING to receive the gift. Taking the gift does NOT equal earning the gift or working for the gift.

[QUOT]Even the devil believes but he will not be saved because he has not repented.

This is not what James was talking about. The sole issue in James 2:19 was about monotheism, that "God is One". That's what the devil believes, because God created him in heaven and the devil experienced the Trinity. So he knows from experience, NOT faith.

So 2:19 isn't even about "faith" for salvation.[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about choice.
Osas states that once we believe and have faith we are never able to be lost.

But we need to have faith and accept the gift of salvation.

We have a choice, if we choose to not accept salvation even if we believe God is real and heaven is real we can choose to not accept salvation if we want to.
The devil believes the gospel truth and knows that Jesus saves us from sin but has not accepted it for himself.

 

[TMS]

Rom 6:15-18 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Verse 16 tells me we have a choice.
If God forces us to become servants of righteousness, then He is not doing a very good job. There is So much sin and unrighteousness around.
God changes us but only when we allow.

 

[PennEd]

All have sinned
We all need to repent.
We need to "Choose" to follow Jesus and not be the servent of sin.

Do we have a choice as to who we serve.

If Jesus forces us to serve Him then that is not my choice it is a dictatorship.

By repent, do you mean turn from your sins?

 

[TMS]

By repent, do you mean turn from your sins?

2Co 12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Mar 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Repent
Transliteration: metanoeō
Thayer Definition:

1. to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
2. to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

 

[Mem]

o, to receive these Promises, the Lord Himself says that we are to "keep His Works until the end", which seems to me to be very clear.

It's not so clear if you can't see that "keeping His works" should not be understood as "keeping your works."

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Hi Mem. Well, I read Rev 2:26 along the lines of 1 Jn 3:5: "Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous." The Lord wants us to practice righteousness just like He practiced righteousness: "Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing." (Jn 14:12) Righteousness begins by faith in Christ, but is made complete, or perfected, by good works. Hence Abraham's righteousness, which began by faith, was made complete by being willing to sacrifice Isaac his son on the Altar of God, as James teaches us in his epistle: "You see that his faith was working with his works, and by his works, his faith was perfected." (Jam 2:22). Good Works do not save us, but they are necessary for our spiritual growth, contribute to our sanctification, and have special rewards in Heaven, according to 1 Cor 3:8 and 14: "every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour ... 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward." (1 Cor 3:8, 14). God Bless.

The Berean study Bible translates Rev 2:26 like this: "And to the one who overcomes and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations." However we read it, it is clear that continuing or persevering in the Lord's Work until the end is needed.

Free Grace, will get back to your post shortly. God Bless.

 

[TMS]

Hi Mem. Well, I read Rev 2:26 along the lines of 1 Jn 3:5: "Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous." The Lord wants us to practice righteousness just like He practiced righteousness: "Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing." (Jn 14:12) Righteousness begins by faith in Christ, but is made complete, or perfected, by good works. Hence Abraham's righteousness, which began by faith, was made complete by being willing to sacrifice Isaac his son on the Altar of God, as James teaches us in his epistle: "You see that his faith was working with his works, and by his works, his faith was perfected." (Jam 2:22). Good Works do not save us, but they are necessary for our spiritual growth, contribute to our sanctification, and have special rewards in Heaven, according to 1 Cor 3:8 and 14: "every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour ... 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward." (1 Cor 3:8, 14). God Bless.

The Berean study Bible translates Rev 2:26 like this: "And to the one who overcomes and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations." However we read it, it is clear that continuing or persevering in the Lord's Work until the end is needed.

Free Grace, will get back to your post shortly. God Bless.

Well said. I agree.
Faith without works is dead..

Faith and works are like oars of a boat.. if you only have one you go around in circles.

 

[PennEd]

2Co 12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Mar 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Repent
Transliteration: metanoeō
Thayer Definition:

1. to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
2. to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

Yes. That is what repentance is. To agree with God that sin is abhorrent. But we are powerless to actually turn from committing them UNTIL we are born again, and empowered by the filling and sealing of the Holy Spirit, who NEVER leaves us.