Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[Beckie]

So only a few parts of the body of Christ will have to endure the tribulation....while the rest of the body of Christ is with the Lord. Nope.

We have this notion that Jesus said .. Mat_24:21 For then shall be A great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. He didn't He said
Mat_24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Through history there has been time of tribulation . 70 ad The feeding the lions story . the inquisition etc

 

[Beckie]

Are you stating that the resurrection is a one time event?

What did Jesus say about the Resurrection?
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Joh_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh_6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Question is not clear. By the time of the Tribulation, the VAST MAJORITY of the "body of Christ" will ALREADY be in heaven.

So only a few parts of the body of Christ will have to endure the tribulation....while the rest of the body of Christ is with the Lord. Nope.

Why do you say no? On what basis?

Do you agree that there is just one resurrection of the saved, per Acts 24:15 and 1 Cor 15:23?
Do you agree that there will be a post tribulation resurrection, per Rev20:5?

If you disagree with either question, please prove that the verses listed do not teach what my question expresses.

Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible states that there will be ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE resurrection for the unsaved.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

1 Cor 15:23. In that ONE resurrection, "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected. "when He comes", which is the 2nd Advent.

Are you stating that the resurrection is a one time event?

Yes. I see no evidence for multiple resurrections.

Jesus always spoke in the singular regarding the coming resurrection.
Acts 24:15 says plainly that there will be A resurrection for the saved (just) and the unsaved (unjust).

1 Cor 15:23 says that this single resurrection will occur "when He comes" and EVERY reference to the COMING of Jesus is a reference to the Second Advent, because the OT prophesied of only TWO advents and the first was Jesus' birth. His second advent will be when He comes back to earth, ends the Tribulation and battle of Armegeddon and sets up His Millennial reign.

Further, 1 Cor 15:23 says "those who belong to Him" will be in the single resurrection. How can that be less than ALL believers?

 

[oyster67]

And the first heaven is not the 3rd heaven where people claim the rapture takes people. Again, no scripture says the raptured people go to heaven. The highest they go is to the clouds of the Earth.

Not worth arguing over, I suppose. I like to think of Heaven as being wherever Jesus is. Heaven will indeed be on the new Earth in the final state.

 

[kleronomos]

The Bible says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord so a saint that dies is with Jesus but they have not received their resurrected body yet.

That isn't what is written though, is it? No it isn't, it is MAN who says that, it is MAN who will argue from every direction but never from where it is clearly written because IT ISN'T WRITTEN.

BUT WHAT IS CLEARLY WRITTEN THAT CAN'T BE TWISTED OR DENIED

1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


So you can see, this present body is sown and it goes back to dust. What it 'gives' to FOR the spiritual body is NO MORE THAN A BARE GRAIN. And to the bare grain GOD GIVES A BODY as it pleases Him, and EVERY SEED GETS A BODY. No bodyless souls going anywhere.

That bare grain is QUICKENED when this flesh dies. And God gives that bare grain a body. And that spirit/soul/body goes to be with the Lord. And the soul returns with Christ when He returns.


GOD tells us FOR SURE so we can't even question it the process that takes place.


1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


SOWN IN CORRUPTION - what are we told about that? which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die.

THE DEATH of this QUICKENS that.

NO DELAY. NO WAITING. It happens when the earthen vessel breaks. And how is it raised up? IN GLORY AND IN POWER.

Think about it. WE die and are RAISED UP way before this flesh even dies. OUR SPIRITUAL life has ALREADY BEGUN. WE are already raised up to heaven. The only thing holding us here in this realm is this flesh body. Once it releases us, we GO and Christ will appear and we are judged and He brings us to the Father and we are with Him where He is.

I will ask you as I ask everyone. Please give me SCRIPTURE that states those MADE ALIVE WHO NEVER DIE are resurrected when He returns. ONLY THE DEAD are raised when He returns and those who NEVER DIE aren't dead so they can't be raised with the dead. It is the most basic common sense there is. Pray on it's truth. Pray that ALL CONFUSION leave and you will find the pure simple basic easy to understand exactly as it is written truth is right there before your eyes.

Think about WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO BELIEVE because what they are telling you is truth is it,

those who NEVER DIE are in fact the DEAD.

In WHAT universe could NEVER DIE = DEAD? In the universe of Confusion.

 

[kleronomos]

and God sends them to the proper waiting area.

WHERE is that written? Or are you confusing the OT ways with the NT ones?

 

[kleronomos]

Talking about the difference between mortal and immortal bodies. NOTHING about resurrected bodies being taken to heaven.

Did you forget what you were claiming to prove?

HOW ARE THE DEAD RAISED UP? not sure where you think those 'RAISED UP' are going, but they are going to BE WHERE HE IS.

 

[kleronomos]

I see nothing about resurrected bodies. I DO see the souls of dead saints being given heavenly clothing to wear. btw, all of this is occurring DURING the first set of God's wrath on the earth IN the Tribulation.

That could only be truth if you had GOD WRATH FALLING on the world before SATAN even arrived.

 

[kleronomos]

This is about all saints in heaven preparing to return with Christ at the Second Advent. Their bodies will be resurrected when Jesus comes to earth. 1 Cor 15:23.

OK, I'm getting tired. NONE of the verses above say ANYTHING about resurrection with a trip to heaven.

So I'm not going to continue with all the rest. I did read them and there were STILL no references to being resurrected and then taken to heaven.

So far, your score is still ZERO.

Only if you can't see.

If the SAINTS are IN HEAVEN PREPARING TO RETURN with Christ then THEY HAVE RESURRECTED. Their bodies are going back to dust. The body that died that is going back to dust gave the bare grain that GOD GAVE A BODY and that body was raised in glory at that time.

THAT IS WHAT IS WRITTEN whether you can understand it or not.

 

[John146]

FreeGrace2 said:
Question is not clear. By the time of the Tribulation, the VAST MAJORITY of the "body of Christ" will ALREADY be in heaven.

Why do you say no? On what basis?

Do you agree that there is just one resurrection of the saved, per Acts 24:15 and 1 Cor 15:23?
Do you agree that there will be a post tribulation resurrection, per Rev20:5?

If you disagree with either question, please prove that the verses listed do not teach what my question expresses.

Thanks.

Where there OT saints raised with the Lord? Where those captives set free?

 

[John146]

FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible states that there will be ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE resurrection for the unsaved.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

1 Cor 15:23. In that ONE resurrection, "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected. "when He comes", which is the 2nd Advent.

Yes. I see no evidence for multiple resurrections.

Jesus always spoke in the singular regarding the coming resurrection.
Acts 24:15 says plainly that there will be A resurrection for the saved (just) and the unsaved (unjust).

1 Cor 15:23 says that this single resurrection will occur "when He comes" and EVERY reference to the COMING of Jesus is a reference to the Second Advent, because the OT prophesied of only TWO advents and the first was Jesus' birth. His second advent will be when He comes back to earth, ends the Tribulation and battle of Armegeddon and sets up His Millennial reign.

Further, 1 Cor 15:23 says "those who belong to Him" will be in the single resurrection. How can that be less than ALL believers?

The resurrection is likened unto a harvest. There are three parts of a harvest: firstfruits, main gathering, and the gleanings.

 

[oyster67]

Are you stating that the resurrection is a one time event?

I think of the Second Coming as one event with two stages separated by 7 years. Jesus comes to clouds and then comes to Earth (bringing us back with Him.)

 

[John146]

FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible states that there will be ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE resurrection for the unsaved.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

1 Cor 15:23. In that ONE resurrection, "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected. "when He comes", which is the 2nd Advent.

Yes. I see no evidence for multiple resurrections.

Jesus always spoke in the singular regarding the coming resurrection.
Acts 24:15 says plainly that there will be A resurrection for the saved (just) and the unsaved (unjust).

1 Cor 15:23 says that this single resurrection will occur "when He comes" and EVERY reference to the COMING of Jesus is a reference to the Second Advent, because the OT prophesied of only TWO advents and the first was Jesus' birth. His second advent will be when He comes back to earth, ends the Tribulation and battle of Armegeddon and sets up His Millennial reign.

Further, 1 Cor 15:23 says "those who belong to Him" will be in the single resurrection. How can that be less than ALL believers?

In your opinion, when and where does the judgment seat of Christ take place?

 

[kleronomos]

1 Cor 15:23. In that ONE resurrection, "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected. "when He comes", which is the 2nd Advent.

YOU KEEP SAYING IT, but IT IS NOT WRITTEN that way. I have given it to you many times. OF THEM THAT SLEPT. The last day of the OLD COVENANT already took place and those who were sleeping in the graves having died under the law HEARD THE GOOD NEWS and were washed clean by the blood of the Lamb slain and so


DEATH COULD NO LONGER HOLD THEM. THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH. THE WASHING IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS MEANS NO SIN. NO SIN MEANS NO DEATH

NEVER DIE IS WHAT JESUS SAID. YOU CAN KEEP SAYING 'A SOUL' GOES TO HEAVEN WITHOUT A BODY AND COMES BACK BUT THAT IS A LIE.

 

[kleronomos]

John 5;28,29 and Acts 24:15.

IT DOESN'T SAY JUST ONE, you say just one. It does say there will be a resurrection of the just and unjust but IT NEVER SAYS THAT IS THE ONLY RESURRECTION.

ONLY YOU SAY IT IS 'THE ONLY' RESURRECTION

BECAUSE THAT IS ALL YOU CAN SEE.


IF IT WERE WRITTEN THEN YOU WOULD PRODUCE IT. And as I have said many many many times, IT IS A RESURRECTION, JUST NOT THE ONLY. AND WE KNOW IT ISN'T THE ONLY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SAY IT IS THE ONLY. ONLY YOU SAY IT IS THE ONLY. BUT THAT ISN'T WHAT IS WRITTEN.

 

[kleronomos]

See above. 2 verses SAY it.

NO, THEY DON'T.

 

[kleronomos]

If you can't count up to 2, then I guess I just can't help you. "a resurrection....BOTH of the saved and unsaved". That's real clear to me.

AND AGAIN I AGREE, it is

A

resurrection

BUT IT IS NOT THE ONLY RESURRECTION. JUST 'A' RESURRECTION, of multiple resurrections, multiple resurrections you CAN'T SEE because of ?????.


You can continue to try to make me sound dumb but it won't do any good because what is written is truth, what WE believe is written, doesn't always hold true and you trying to show me to be dumb is only proving your ignorance.

 

[kleronomos]

Biblically speaking, the word "just" means "justified ones" which are SAVED people. Justification in the sense of being in union with Christ. That is the basis of our justification.

So if you argue that "just and unjust" doesn't mean "saved and unsaved", well, that's just your problem.

The problem isn't mine...

 

[oyster67]

The HOLY SPIRIT says 'pre-trib' rapture is a lie

Well why didn't you tell us that before?

...and all this time, silly me was just relying on what the Bible said.