Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

[JBTN]

While I like the word immersed. It is still out of place.
Gift of the spirit does not go with baptism. It goes only with repent

forgiveness of your sins goes with baptism. However. For or into can be translated in order to recieve, or on account of already recieved.

since the gift of the spirit is given solely on the basis of repentance. And the gift can not be given apart from forgiveness. The only logical interpretation is we go to be baptized on account of already recieved remmision of sin.’

I agree with you. I see the CJB version as saying that when we repent we are immersed into forgiveness of sins. Not immersed into water. I also believe metanoia simply means to have a change of mind. So, this essentially says change your mind and you will be immersed into forgiveness of sins. Not something someone has to go do, something that is automatically done to them. Just like we see here:

“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/eph.1.13.ESV

We are sealed in Him, or immersed into him, by the Holy Spirit when we hear the word and believe. I think Acts 2:38 and Ephesians 1:13 say exactly the same thing.

 

[Runningman]

Sorry bro. The Bible does not teach this at all

Laughable if I didn’t think you were being serious. That’s a bit scary you have tricked yourself into not seeing water baptism as a requirement in the Bible.

Jesus told us many times how to be saved. Not once did he mention baptism. Because baptism is not required to be born again, given eternal life.

Jesus said you must be born again as in be born of water and Spirit. I proved that water and Spirit are water baptism and Spiritual rebirth already. I encourage you to pray about that.

Perople who try to pick a few passages, and twist them to make it appear baptism is required do so at their own peril

I haven’t twisted anything. I’ve presented plain and clear verses from the Bible and you’ve rejected them. Oh, what kind of peril do you think I’m in? This should be good.

 

[Runningman]

Verse 5
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus+3&version=ASV#fen-ASV-29913a

That’s highly interpretive and doesn’t say what you’re claiming it does. “Outward sign of an inward grace” does not exist in the Bible.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Why struggle against such a clique? Whatever their true motives, if they've committed to this treason for years here they'll not change at all now.

When they resort to name calling to defend their false teaching of Christ , have we won the argument if we do so thinking to defend with his truth?

Thats why I get to the point I stop responding to them. When I see new people come in. I will respond only to expose them, but I will not play they game.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I agree with you. I see the CJB version as saying that when we repent we are immersed into forgiveness of sins. Not immersed into water. I also believe metanoia simply means to have a change of mind. So, this essentially says change your mind and you will be immersed into forgiveness of sins. Not something someone has to go do, something that is automatically done to them. Just like we see here:

“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/eph.1.13.ESV

We are sealed in Him, or immersed into him, by the Holy Spirit when we hear the word and believe. I think Acts 2:38 and Ephesians 1:13 say exactly the same thing.

Ok. I never heard of this before. Interesting.. Something we should consider for sure. Thank you!!

 

[Bluesproverb]

That’s highly interpretive and doesn’t say what you’re claiming it does. “Outward sign of an inward grace” does not exist in the Bible.

I believe you believe that.

 

[Bluesproverb]

Thats why I get to the point I stop responding to them. When I see new people come in. I will respond only to expose them, but I will not play they game.

We've read 1 Corinthians 15. Paul's outlining the gospel message and yet never refers to baptism being requisite to be saved. Because it isn't. Were it so, Paul would be remiss in not teaching that part.

And remember when Paul said Jesus did not send him to baptized? Odd, if baptism were necessary to be saved that Jesus would send Paul to not save people.

Or when Paul said he was glad he did not baptized some of his people? Paul would be saying, I'm glad I did not help you to find salvation in Christ. If baptism were commensurate with salvation.

Baptism is a rite after we are saved by God's gift of grace through faith. However, baptism cannot be argued as requisite for salvation. Or that baptism saves.
Because that argument then says Jesus death on the cross wasn't enough to secure our salvation.

“For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power."

https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-salvation.html

 

[Bluesproverb]

Acts 2 Complete Jewish Bible

36 Therefore, let the whole house of Isra’el know beyond doubt that God has made him both Lord and Messiah — this Yeshua, whom you executed on a stake!”


37 On hearing this, they were stung in their hearts; and they said to Kefa and the other emissaries, “Brothers, what should we do?” 38 Kefa answered them, “Turn from sin, return to God, and each of you be immersed on the authority of Yeshua the Messiah into forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Ruach HaKodesh! (the holy spirit)39 For the promise is for you, for your children, and for those far away — as many as Adonai our God may call!”

 

[Nehemiah6]

I also believe metanoia simply means to have a change of mind.

This is a common misunderstanding. While metanoia literally means a change of mind, biblical repentance goes much further and much deeper.

It is a change of mind, will, heart, motives, goals, direction, lifestyle, etc. because God gives the sinner a new heart, a new mind, and a new spirit. He also gives the gift of the Holy Spirit in order to transform this person into the image of Christ. Therefore it is misleading to say it is merely "a change of mind". It includes godly sorrow for past sins, and a total turning away from sins and idols to worship and serve the living and true God and the Lord Jesus Christ. And it is this kind of repentance that leads to the forgiveness of sins.

No one is "immersed" in the forgiveness of sins. God wipes the slate clean, and removes all guilt and forgives all sins and iniquity. We are "washed in the blood of the Lamb". And it is those who are thus forgiven who are totally immersed in water, in order to identify themselves with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Thus they are "raised to walk in newness of life". That is far deeper and more profound than merely a change of mind. The conversion of Saul of Tarsus is a good example. But baptism is not necessary for salvation. That is false doctrine.

 

[oyster67]

Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?




Being baptized by the Holy Spirit is.

Being dunked in a bathtub is not.

John 3
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

It is plain from context what this "born of water" is all about. We must be born the first time before we can be born again. Baptismal tubs do not get pregnant and go into labor and birth babies in any sense.

 

[Wansvic]

You are not sharing scripture. You are USING scripture, that you and your group have twisted and taken out of context, to try to proselytize and lure people from the truth.

This is a deceitful practice, but I guess the same was done to you. To be set free from this harmful practice of Jesus only baptism and water washes away sin (it washes dirt only) a person must confess they have believed a lie and then turn to the truth. If you are playing a game, you are playing with people's souls and God will hold you accountable.

God has not made a covenant with us with water; the covenant for salvation is made through the blood of Christ.

For this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Matthew 26:28

Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. Acts 20:28

Knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. I Peter 1: 18-19

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6

We cannot approach God through water. As Jesus Himself stated, He is the only way to God the Father. That was made possible through His blood. Any other teaching is not biblical and is, in fact, heretical in nature.

As for wansvic's many untruths accusing people of not being able to respond to her Bible verses, it can plainly be seen that he/she whatever, is actually the one who cannot and will not respond to the truth presented in scripture, but rather continually charges it is others because wansvic cannot respond without acknowledging that water does not save anyone.

We are instructed to be baptized in water, but not for salvation, as has been explained with scripture, many times over in this thread and others that have been started for the purpose of attacking the truth.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. And no comes to the Father but by Him. The rebirth experience, of which baptism is a part, is only made possible because of Jesus' sacrifice. Obedience to the God-given command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus washes away one's personal sin because that is when individual's are buried with Him into His death as Paul stated in Romans 6:3-6. (Acts 22:16, 2:38)

 

[Bluesproverb]

This is a common misunderstanding. While metanoia literally means a change of mind, biblical repentance goes much further and much deeper.

It is a change of mind, will, heart, motives, goals, direction, lifestyle, etc. because God gives the sinner a new heart, a new mind, and a new spirit. He also gives the gift of the Holy Spirit in order to transform this person into the image of Christ. Therefore it is misleading to say it is merely "a change of mind". It includes godly sorrow for past sins, and a total turning away from sins and idols to worship and serve the living and true God and the Lord Jesus Christ. And it is this kind of repentance that leads to the forgiveness of sins.

No one is "immersed" in the forgiveness of sins. God wipes the slate clean, and removes all guilt and forgives all sins and iniquity. We are "washed in the blood of the Lamb". And it is those who are thus forgiven who are totally immersed in water, in order to identify themselves with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Thus they are "raised to walk in newness of life". That is far deeper and more profound than merely a change of mind. The conversion of Saul of Tarsus is a good example. But baptism is not necessary for salvation. That is false doctrine.

Maybe a way to consider the phrase, immersed in the forgiveness of sins, is to consider when we are washed clean of our sins by the blood of Christ it isn't a shower. It's a bath, an immersion, into his blood.

Zechariah 13:1 When that day comes, a spring will be opened up for the house of David and the people living in Yerushalayim to cleanse them from sin and impurity.

 

[Polar]

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. And no comes to the Father but by Him. The rebirth experience, of which baptism is a part, is only made possible because of Jesus' sacrifice. Obedience to the God-given command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus washes away one's personal sin because that is when individual's are buried with Him into His death as Paul stated in Romans 6:3-6. (Acts 22:16, 2:38)

The grave error, of which you both partake and teach, is pushing water baptism as necessary for salvation. It is not. This is actually anti-biblical teaching as scripture is plain that only the blood of Christ cleanses from all sin. Water baptism follows salvation and is not a part of salvation.

Continuing on in this stubborn refusal of the truth is not a sign of someone who actually acknowledges that Christ fulfilled all obligations of the law. We do not earn salvation but you teach that we do earn salvation by your water works submissions.

Jesus sacrifice is the final and only sacrifice that God accepts. Your vain efforts at works are not acceptable.

 

[Polar]

Stick around brother. It gets worse.. you will be called all kinds of names because of your believe in the baptism of God which saved, not the baptism of some pastor..

Sister...like the girl hugging the polar bear

When people are caught in their web of lies or false teaching, they will always resort to either dodging and changing the subject, twisting what you have said, attacking your person rather than sticking to the op, calling names as you say and then sometimes just ignoring you altogether and a few other identifying marks of false teaching/teachers.

Just another day here at CC. Imagine though, sitting in church and not knowing all these things are what is floating around in the heads of some congregants.

 

[Wansvic]

I agree with you. I see the CJB version as saying that when we repent we are immersed into forgiveness of sins. Not immersed into water. I also believe metanoia simply means to have a change of mind. So, this essentially says change your mind and you will be immersed into forgiveness of sins. Not something someone has to go do, something that is automatically done to them. Just like we see here:

“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/eph.1.13.ESV

We are sealed in Him, or immersed into him, by the Holy Spirit when we hear the word and believe. I think Acts 2:38 and Ephesians 1:13 say exactly the same thing.

The key to Ephesians 1:13 is understanding what is meant by the word of truth, the gospel of salvation that includes the promise of receiving the Holy Ghost.

The group referenced in Acts 2:36-37 heard and believed in Jesus' sacrifice. Per your understanding at that point they would have automatically been sealed with the Holy Ghost. That is not what the scripture says. What did occur, is the group asked what they MUST do. Peter did not respond by saying, you believe so nothing else is required. Peter's instructions were repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin. He also said they shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The sealing takes place when a person is indwelt by the Holy Ghost. The word of truth message includes believing in Jesus' sacrifice, repentance, being baptized in water in Jesus' name and receiving the Holy Ghost. This truth is witnessed in Paul's exchange with the 12 Ephesians in Acts 19:1-6, the Samaritan conversion in Acts 8:12-18, and the Gentile conversion details in Acts 10:43-48. The scriptures referenced provide all of the requirements initially presented on the Day of Pentecost. There are, however, many scriptures that reference details relating to each of the individual requirements; ie, repentance, being indwelt with the Holy Ghost, etc.

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Eph 1:13

 

[Wansvic]

...The conversion of Saul of Tarsus is a good example. But baptism is not necessary for salvation. That is false doctrine.

Please explain why Ananias relayed the following to Saul/Paul concerning the purpose of baptism.

"And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:14-16

 

[JBTN]

This is a common misunderstanding. While metanoia literally means a change of mind, biblical repentance goes much further and much deeper.

It is a change of mind, will, heart, motives, goals, direction, lifestyle, etc. because God gives the sinner a new heart, a new mind, and a new spirit. He also gives the gift of the Holy Spirit in order to transform this person into the image of Christ. Therefore it is misleading to say it is merely "a change of mind". It includes godly sorrow for past sins, and a total turning away from sins and idols to worship and serve the living and true God and the Lord Jesus Christ. And it is this kind of repentance that leads to the forgiveness of sins.

No one is "immersed" in the forgiveness of sins. God wipes the slate clean, and removes all guilt and forgives all sins and iniquity. We are "washed in the blood of the Lamb". And it is those who are thus forgiven who are totally immersed in water, in order to identify themselves with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Thus they are "raised to walk in newness of life". That is far deeper and more profound than merely a change of mind. The conversion of Saul of Tarsus is a good example. But baptism is not necessary for salvation. That is false doctrine.

If someone comes to believe can we not say that their mind has changed? Think about this verse:

“Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:1‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.5.1.ESV

According to this passage everyone who believes has already been born of God. So, they have already had a second birth.

These are good too:

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.5.24.ESV

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:47‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.6.47.ESV

“I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:13‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.5.13.ESV

On immersion into forgiveness of sins, think about Matthew 26:

“for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.26.28.ESV

The phrase “for the forgiveness of sins” here is the same as in Acts 2:38, eis aphesin hamartion. If you think of eis as into, then Jesus blood was poured out into forgiveness of sins in Matthew 26. So, being immersed into forgiveness of sins becomes essentially immersed into Jesus’ blood.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If someone comes to believe can we not say that their mind has changed?

Saving faith and heart repentance are two sides of the same coin. Peter said "Repent and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out".

 

[peldom10]

God knows Paul needed cleansing. He held Stephens cloak while the crowd he incited stoned Stephen to death. Paul and Ananias would also be familiar with the Mikvah. Which did not bring the submerged into salvation.

Jesus ,as he said, is the water of everlasting life.

The teaching that God requires more than his personal bestowal of faith and grace to save a person is a teaching that will not be righted until God sees fit for its adherents.
L ord knows, cults have twisted scripture to mislead people to horrific acts.

Salvation not being true or secured without baptism is in comparison a relatively mild hurdle to overcome.
Not so much for those who taught it. As they answer to a stricter judgement. Especially in this matter of such importance as that which dares to say what God gifts needs emersion of his believers before they are truly his.
Nonsense!

My observation won't change those minds though.required baptism.

Please consider scriptures;



Only God.

That has absolutely nothing to do with

Another hammer?

You just condemned my sister in law

You just condemned every OT believer who has not been baptised

You just condemned everyone who is not able to be immersed in water because of medical conditions

You just condemned everyone who has true saving faith in CHrist. But has not for whatever reason, been able to be baptized in water

There is no debate my friend. I am exposing the truth. the lie of a works based gospel.

Not me...God has.
It is His commandment...not mine.

 

[peldom10]

Saving faith and heart repentance are two sides of the same coin. Peter said "Repent and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out".

yep...then be baptized....to finish sin cleansing...Christ said.