Age of Marriage

[MsMediator]

Well that's the point.

The teens want to play house with baby and demand that everyone support them financially. These children don't even have sufficient years to hold a part time job. They are under 15.

That's the whole issue.

There are no good options. Abortion or adoption may leave the young parents with long term regret or other similar feelings. My reading on birth mom is that they never get over giving up the one (and I personally knew one, a coworker). Raising a child when unprepared is also a bad option, but I don't think this option leaves regret, however there may be other types of worries such as financial issues, issues with the baby's father, not having enough support, etc.

 

[kaylagrl]

When do periods start? Most young people will have their first periods when they're between 11 and 14½, but anywhere from 9-16 years is considered normal.
A 9 year old is an adult ?

So if one is sterile they can not commit adultery. you need help

Yep, 10 here, so there you go.

 

[Polar]

They are adults or they could not create children. That is the Biological Definition of Adult, and while my Moral Preference wants "more responsibility" the reality of God's Natural Order doesn't make distinction between a 28 year old being pregnant, and a 14 year old being pregnant, cetirus paribus.
God tells us that ALL people must not commit adultery or fornication. He doesn't place an age limit. If they can behave in procreation, then they logically can commit adultery. And God will not distinguish between what you want to call your children, and what he knows is separation from him.

Right. So you dispense judgement and accusations against the rest of us who responded to your op and refer to the Bible over and over but when it suits you, you use a 'biological' definition of adult that indicates the ability to produce offspring.

I am more than happy to tell you and others who are waving their Bibles in the air that God does make a distinction between a child being pregnant...which can happen if a girl has her first period at the age of 9 or 11...and a 28 or even 18 year old who is pregnant. Every time I come across someone who makes little to no sense in this forum, they are hiding behind God and pushing Him forward as though He somehow has fallen to their level of understanding.

God's natural order? Even creation itself is groaning and has been groaning in labor pains until now. Romans 8 The natural world, what God created and put in gear, is not fallen or disobedient. Adams' sin has brought this order into bondage, death and decay, and caused disease and eradication of much of nature.

A child having or becoming pregnant is NOT God's plan.

 

[Live4Him3]

Every time I come across someone who makes little to no sense in this forum, they are hiding behind God and pushing Him forward as though He somehow has fallen to their level of understanding.

Oh, the irony.

Anyhow, here's something for everyone to consider, and this happened after the fall of man:

Ezekiel chapter 16

[1] Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
[2] Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,
[3] And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.
[4] And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all.
[5] None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.
[6] And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.
[7] I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare.
[8] Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.

Here, God likened his covenant with the nation of Israel to a marriage covenant, even as he does all throughout scripture.

When did God, figuratively speaking, see Israel as being fit for marriage?

Well, some of the indicators are "thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown", and these are both signs of puberty. It seems to me that God likened this timeframe to Israel's "time of love", and that is when he "spread his skirt over her", figuratively speaking, "and entered into a covenant with her".

Anyhow, there are plenty of indicators, from both scripture and recorded history, that younger men and women were a lot more mature back then than they presently are because of different factors.

 

[Polar]

Oh, the irony.

Anyhow, here's something for everyone to consider, and this happened after the fall of man:

Ezekiel chapter 16

[1] Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
[2] Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,
[3] And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.
[4] And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all.
[5] None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.
[6] And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.
[7] I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare.
[8] Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.

Here, God likened his covenant with the nation of Israel to a marriage covenant, even as he does all throughout scripture.

When did God, figuratively speaking, see Israel as being fit for marriage?

Well, some of the indicators are "thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown", and these are both signs of puberty. It seems to me that God likened this timeframe to Israel's "time of love", and that is when he "spread his skirt over her", figuratively speaking, "and entered into a covenant with her".

Anyhow, there are plenty of indicators, from both scripture and recorded history, that younger men and women were a lot more mature back then than they presently are because of different factors.

While that is so, we are not OT Israel and nothing has changed in this thread with regards to the op. So a nine year old girl who has developed very early, is a candidate for marriage regardless if she still plays with dolls and crayons. Please do not insult people with trying to say that is how God views children.

That, is not at all what the Bible says and your posturing and copy/pasted scripture does not make it so.

Kinda goes without saying that God speaking to backslidden Israel does not actually help with the op. However, this thread has been taken far too personally by you and your references to those of us who apply what we believe to be wisdom in the situation described, as abandoning the Bible and God, are indicators of that very thing.

Again. personal stories are personal and you present them as though we should all learn from them. I have very different stories and would not assume anyone needs to know all about them in order to think I am somehow genuine and others are false. You have less than no idea of the personal lives of most people here but you post all about yours. That's fine. That's your choice but certainly not mine. That is neither here nor there. However, that does not somehow give you leniency to lump everyone else together and figuratively whump people over the head with the family Bible because they do not see the need to recognize you as the authority here.

I really don't care to respond to you further and I think you are being unreasonable and reading too much into what some have posted here. That is on you and saying I commune with the devil is a reflection on you. You are obviously hurt and still hurting but that is also something you have to deal with. Snarking at others and hiding behind the Bible does not do anything for your point of view and neither does illustrating your point with OT scripture where God is speaking to backslidden Israel.

The focus is on 2 kids under 15 who managed to create a child. Neither of them are responsible or fit for marriage. The child is innocent and I have said some good things and reasonable things in this thread. You are entitled to your opinion and that is also yours to deal with.

as I previously stated:

Every time I come across someone who makes little to no sense in this forum, they are hiding behind God and pushing Him forward as though He somehow has fallen to their level of understanding.

I was not addressing you in particular but I see you tried the shoes on and thought they were meant for you. I was addressing the op as you most likely saw and you and he seem to be 2 sides of the same coin. Thankfully, neither of you have any sway over anyone here and I am truly sorry for the two teens who seem to have unreasonable and untrustworthy men as their judges.

Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery. It is interesting that the man, who should also have been brought along, was left at the scene. God is not mocked or deceived by anyone posturing to be holy. Note I am not saying that is you. but you have overstepped with your comments to others as I already said.

And kindly remember:

I really don't care to respond to you further. You are much too loud to hear anyone else anyway.

 

[maxwel]

2 Distinct Issues:

The OP raised two distinct issues, and we shouldn't conflate them.

1. How old must people be to get married?
2. Should this particular young couple be married?

Those are two entirely different questions... and we should keep them separate for clarity.

Since one question is answered by the laws of the state, and the other question is answered by the young couple along with their families... I can't see my opinion amounts to much.



Have a great week everyone.

.

 

[Live4Him3]

Blah, blah, blah...I'll project my own problems unto you while setting up strawman arguments and putting words in your mouth...blah, blah, blah.

Good riddance.

 

[JohnDB]

2 Distinct Issues:

The OP raised two distinct issues, and we shouldn't conflate them.

1. How old must people be to get married?
2. Should this particular young couple be married?

Those are two entirely different questions... and we should keep them separate for clarity.

Since one question is answered by the laws of the state, and the other question is answered by the young couple along with their families... I can't see my opinion amounts to much.



Have a great week everyone.

.

Well from what I've figured out from what has been said....it's a state that borders Mexico...that can be Texas, California, or Arizona.

Texas has a thing about child pregnancy...ever since Warren Jeffers.

They aren't exactly going to treat the child father as an adult unless it's during his trial.

The laws about child pregnancy are different state to state. But in some states it has to result in a criminal conviction....I think Texas is one of them.

Arizona has the most lenient laws concerning child pregnancy of any of the southern border states if memory serves me correctly.

California? Who knows anymore? They got a Ton of laws that conflict with each other. It's anybody's guess as to what one's they want to use on any specific day. Anybody can get prosecuted for anything if the DA has a mind to. Or heralded as a hero....

My guess?
I know what I'd do....I'd get a restraining order for the boy and move the family lock stock and barrel to another state.

And if he contacted her again I'd have him thrown in jail. And if I couldn't I'd have his parents thrown in jail for not restraining their son.

Marriage?
Not my 14 year old daughter while I'm alive.

Just the way it is gonna happen for me.
Other parents might be more permissive...I'm not one of them. If the state won't prosecute I'll figure out another way to protect my family from outside influences that wish to destroy them.

 

[Beckie]

Well from what I've figured out from what has been said....it's a state that borders Mexico...that can be Texas, California, or Arizona.

Texas has a thing about child pregnancy...ever since Warren Jeffers.

They aren't exactly going to treat the child father as an adult unless it's during his trial.

The laws about child pregnancy are different state to state. But in some states it has to result in a criminal conviction....I think Texas is one of them.

Arizona has the most lenient laws concerning child pregnancy of any of the southern border states if memory serves me correctly.

California? Who knows anymore? They got a Ton of laws that conflict with each other. It's anybody's guess as to what one's they want to use on any specific day. Anybody can get prosecuted for anything if the DA has a mind to. Or heralded as a hero....

My guess?
I know what I'd do....I'd get a restraining order for the boy and move the family lock stock and barrel to another state.

And if he contacted her again I'd have him thrown in jail. And if I couldn't I'd have his parents thrown in jail for not restraining their son.

Marriage?
Not my 14 year old daughter while I'm alive.

Just the way it is gonna happen for me.
Other parents might be more permissive...I'm not one of them. If the state won't prosecute I'll figure out another way to protect my family from outside influences that wish to destroy them.

Most often we agree but i was once 14 i knew how to get what i wanted. HE who ever he is might be just as innocent as SHE. We females can be real trouble.

 

[JohnDB]

Most often we agree but i was once 14 i knew how to get what i wanted. HE who ever he is might be just as innocent as SHE. We females can be real trouble.

Doesn't matter if she was trying to manipulate him....
Not relevant to the choices I'd make.

 

[apwall21]

Doesn't matter if she was trying to manipulate him....
Not relevant to the choices I'd make.

I think that's unfortunate. It looks like you'd prefer your daughter be an adulteress, than marry the man she Chose to be her partner. Not alot of faith in your rearing her to be responsible?

Are we Parents all praying God doesn't want us in heaven tonight? Why are we raising our Offspring, our Second Ministry field as a married couple, to be extended Children? How does this serve them?

You can blame the "laws" and the "society" but you ARE the society. Why are you not teaching them to be adults before they get there?

 

[apwall21]

Most often we agree but i was once 14 i knew how to get what i wanted. HE who ever he is might be just as innocent as SHE. We females can be real trouble.

Of course you can. We're human sinners, and at 14 we are able and naturally designed to Want to be parents.
Incapability in the mind seems, by JohnDB's arguments, to be down to how the child was reared.

Why are we preferring to make a soceity where young adults like yourself can be easily tempted for half a decade before we begin to grudgingly accept that they are going out of their minds wanting to become parents, at least as the flesh instructs. And you can talk all you want about overcoming flesh, but Again, Paul warns us that Trained Adults are bound to fail, and so should marry again if widowed.
How can we expect those with the least experience to have the most self control? Why would we set up for failure? Especially in such a hypersexualized media world, and an increasing hostile "state" education?

 

[apwall21]

When do periods start? Most young people will have their first periods when they're between 11 and 14½, but anywhere from 9-16 years is considered normal.
A 9 year old is an adult ?

From the teachings of the School of Biology, if a cow can hold a calf to birthing, that cow is an adult, irrelevant of her age in months. Naturally speaking, the cow will have succeeded in it's basic function for the species. Each cow may be a few weeks different on when they reach that age, but the deciding factor in Biological Definition, which I think is a pretty simple marker generally for the marking of beginning of the possibility of sinful intents in sexual acts, is the ability to procreate via whatever represents puberty in that animal.

So if one is sterile they can not commit adultery. you need help

So then, the question to you, since you wanted to ask this,; can a 8 year old who isn't past puberty, commit adultery? Intent is as good as ability, I will have to agree. Would I be able to say it isn't sin? I couldn't. I guess you're correct, by your definition a pre-pubescent child could, in theory, commit adultery.
Now what? How does this help me define adult more appropriate for your tastes?

 

[apwall21]

2 Distinct Issues:
one question is answered by the laws of the state
.

The laws of the State of Egypt once told all the Hebrew Midwives to kill all the males. Jesus probably should have just listened to the law of the High Priest.

 

[Beckie]

Of course you can. We're human sinners, and at 14 we are able and naturally designed to Want to be parents.
Incapability in the mind seems, by JohnDB's arguments, to be down to how the child was reared.

Why are we preferring to make a soceity where young adults like yourself can be easily tempted for half a decade before we begin to grudgingly accept that they are going out of their minds wanting to become parents, at least as the flesh instructs. And you can talk all you want about overcoming flesh, but Again, Paul warns us that Trained Adults are bound to fail, and so should marry again if widowed.
How can we expect those with the least experience to have the most self control? Why would we set up for failure? Especially in such a hypersexualized media world, and an increasing hostile "state" education?

LOL you really should pay attention young adult really i am 73

 

[Beckie]

From the teachings of the School of Biology, if a cow can hold a calf to birthing, that cow is an adult, irrelevant of her age in months. Naturally speaking, the cow will have succeeded in it's basic function for the species. Each cow may be a few weeks different on when they reach that age, but the deciding factor in Biological Definition, which I think is a pretty simple marker generally for the marking of beginning of the possibility of sinful intents in sexual acts, is the ability to procreate via whatever represents puberty in that animal.

So then, the question to you, since you wanted to ask this,; can a 8 year old who isn't past puberty, commit adultery? Intent is as good as ability, I will have to agree. Would I be able to say it isn't sin? I couldn't. I guess you're correct, by your definition a pre-pubescent child could, in theory, commit adultery.
Now what? How does this help me define adult more appropriate for your tastes?

Dont dump your trash talk on me

 

[apwall21]

LOL you really should pay attention young adult really i am 73

This has no bearing on the query. You yourself noted that you were a young adult capable of causing problems.

Dont dump your trash talk on me

How is one to determine what is adult when advising? What the State of Oklahoma tells you? Maybe what Barack Obama thinks? We're here trying to figure how to help make better choices, and you're pulling out some serious insults, when it's not even clear you can determine what is being written.

 

[Beckie]

This has no bearing on the query. You yourself noted that you were a young adult capable of causing problems.

Your post is a lie. I did not say what you say i said. Circle talking, keep trying and maybe you will improve. Attempting to twist my words so they agree with you. O well .

No where are the words 'young adult' in my quote . Lying in print is not as easy to get around as spoken words. My Quote

Most often we agree but i was once 14 i knew how to get what i wanted. HE who ever he is might be just as innocent as SHE. We females can be real trouble.

I will not trust any posting of your words ..

 

[apwall21]

Most often we agree but i was once 14 i knew how to get what i wanted. HE who ever he is might be just as innocent as SHE. We females can be real trouble.

Your post is a lie. I did not say what you say i said.

Oh, we're back to you not being willing to define young adult?
Great.
Did you want to do that, or are you just gonna sit and chew your dentures in judgement all day?

 

[Beckie]

Oh, we're back to you not being willing to define young adult?
Great.
Did you want to do that, or are you just gonna sit and chew your dentures in judgement all day?

No i am calling you out on your lie? Of which i have had enough , This site has an excellent ignore button