latter Rain

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#21
Regarding being obedient that is what the Bible says, the Holy spirit cannot be given to anyone as you know some may claim to have the Holy Spirit, but may not the Holy spirit works on every heart but as far as being used by the Holy Spirit for service is another matter

Acts 8:18-20
(18) And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
(19) Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
(20) But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
1 Corinthians 12:11
(11) But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
ok Lao.
but i see in scripture that the Spirit (and i know from my personal experience) is the pledge, the earnest of our inheritence, the Gift given to seal us and to sanctify us.

that Gift is given the moment we BELIEVE. so still unclear as to the "obedient" part.

maybe you mean especially in the last days there will be intensified supernatual activity from both sides? that i do believe also.
love zone.
 
May 2, 2011
1,134
8
0
#22
as zone wound say :) nonesence!! this is talking about a twofold method of patience....not one thing in this context or the whole book for that matter about an outpouring of the Holyspirit.
Abiding, don't channel Zone, she lives amongst the Zoroastrians. It sounds like Jeremiah
knew you whilst still in the womb, saying:

Jeremiah 5:24
Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth
rain, both
the former and the
latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the
harvest.

Hosea prophesied not only of Jesus and the Resurrection, but the Resurrection to come:

Hosea 6:2-3
2After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in
his sight.

3Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the
morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the
earth.

Joel 2:28
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your
sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young
men shall see visions:

Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all
flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see
visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18And on my servants and on my
handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

...



22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among
you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye
yourselves also know:
23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and
foreknowledge of God, ye have
taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not
possible that he should be holden of it. 25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw
the Lord always before my face, for he is
on my right hand, that I should not be moved:


The idea being, this is a THEME recurring through the entire book, a resurrection of spirit.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#23
Abiding, don't channel Zone, she lives amongst the Zoroastrians.
what's this supposed to mean?

It sounds like Jeremiah
knew you whilst still in the womb, saying:

Jeremiah 5:24
Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both
the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the
harvest.

Hosea prophesied not only of Jesus and the Resurrection, but the Resurrection to come:

Hosea 6:2-3
2After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in
his sight.

3Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the
morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the
earth.

Joel 2:28
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your
sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young
men shall see visions:

Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all
flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see
visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18And on my servants and on my
handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
...


22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among
you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye
yourselves also know: 23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and
foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not
possible that he should be holden of it. 25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw
the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:


The idea being, this is a THEME recurring through the entire book, a resurrection of spirit.
the subject is the false Latter Rain Movement, DA.
not the prophesied Pentecost, or Resurrections.
 
May 2, 2011
1,134
8
0
#24
yeah I thought it was kind of confusing to. I thought the early rain is when you are given the Holy Spirit and that we are patient and the latter rain would be when Jesus came again and this happened and we would then become mature and perfect in Christ:
Don't be patient, but in your fervor. We have a great commission:

Matthew 28:18-20

18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and
in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things
whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of
the world. Amen.


This is not to make a doctrine, religion, or following out of one verse or event, [e.g.
baptism --> Baptist Religion, Pentecost --> Pentecostals, etc.)
. However, it is a THEME of
scripture to remain steadfast and to persevere.


Hebrews 12

1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let
us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with
patience the race that is set before us, 2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our
faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame,
and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3For consider him that endured
such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
 
D

Deadflesh

Guest
#27
THE GREAT REVIVAL?

by Robert Shook​
Wherever you go you hear about the “great revival” and end-time “harvest” that will soon come upon the world. All churches and denominations are predicting it. Some are even claiming that it has already started. Is the teaching of a great end-time harvest and revival actually based in the Scripture? Or is it another one of our “traditions.”

Though the Bible has much to say concerning the “last days” you will search in vain to find such a doctrine taught. Considering that everyone, everywhere, talks about this wonderful end-time event, one would assume that it would be clearly alluded to in the New Testament. But it isn’t.

But shouldn’t we care about the lost? Shouldn’t we want to see revival? Of course! But the issue is not whether or not we have a heart for the lost. Rather, the issue is whether or not we have a heart for the truth. Should our desire for revival and love for the sinner take precedence over our love for God and His truth?

The Scripture does not teach that a revival will sweep multitudes into the Kingdom of God. It teaches the opposite; that a world-wide spiritual delusion will sweep multitudes into the arms of anti-Christ. Jesus taught the disciples exactly what the great “end-time harvest” would be like.
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. . . Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. Matthew 13:29-30 & 13:36-43

The “good seed” are the children of the kingdom, the “tares” are the children of the wicked one, the “field” is the world, the “harvest” is the end of this world or the end of this age. What did Jesus say about the tares and the wheat? “Let both grow together until the harvest.” So shall it be at the end of this age. The tares will continue to be tares, and ripen into maturity. The wheat will continue to be wheat, and ripen into maturity. Which group will the “reapers” gather first? Jesus told the angels to gather together First the tares.
The purpose of the “harvest” is not to turn the tares into wheat. The purpose of the harvest is to “gather out” of the Lord’s kingdom “all things that offend and them {tares} which do iniquity” so that the “righteous” {wheat} can “shine forth as the sun” in that kingdom. The first harvest at the “end” of this age, which is also the next harvest on the Lord’s calender of events, will not be a harvest of “tares” into the kingdom but a harvest of “tares” into the flames. One of the most detailed descriptions of the events which lead up to the Lord’s return is found in Matthew 24:3-24.
Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come….For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
The Lord paints the opposite picture as the one being painted by those looking for the great revival – and those claiming that it has already started. The scenario He laid out reveals that in the latter days great darkness will engulf the nations and the nominal church. This darkness will continue to intensify. He said the world would be full of false prophets and false “Christs”{anointings}. He said that deception and sin among God’s people will become epidemic and as a result, the love of many {believers} shall wax cold. We shall be hated by all nations. Some of us will be betrayed by fellow believers and put to death. Some of us will be the ones who do the betraying. We will betray other believers to save our own skin and cause them to be killed.
Yet in the middle of all this chaos and delusion, some believers will remain steadfast. These are the “elect.” It is these of whom Jesus speaks when He says that the “gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.” Even so, the days will become so evil that God will have to shorten them. For if He does not, even the elect will be deceived and all flesh would be destroyed!

How does a world-wide, end-time, “latter rain” revival and harvest fit into this picture? Not very well! The fact that God has to “shorten” the days to keep all flesh from being destroyed puts the lie to our cherished tradition.

Jesus never said that the “gospel” that is to be preached in “all nations” will be accepted or that the nations would repent when it is preached. He merely stated that it would be preached. Since things continue to deteriorate after this witness has been given, it should be obvious that the world will reject it. As a matter of fact, this is exactly what John sees in Revelation. The nations reject the testimony and kill the “witnesses” who are bearing it. They rejoice and throw a big party to celebrate the death of the “two” witnesses and the end of their testimony. [Revelation 11:3-10]

If that testimony had produced a world-wide “revival” and brought into the Kingdom a “great harvest” of sinners, then those who rejoiced over the death of the witness would be a minority, not the majority as the Word implies.

Jesus made two more revealing statements concerning the days just before His return. First He said “as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” [Matt. 24:37-41] Exactly what happened in the “days” of Noah? Noah “preached the gospel,” [II. Peter 2:15] he had a testimony, he was a “witness” to and against his generation. But none repented! No one was listening! Life continued on for them as normal; eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage until the day of the flood. The Lord compares that generation to this present generation.

In another place Jesus asks His disciples a very shocking question; “when the Son of man cometh, shall He find faith on the earth?” [Luke 18:8] In other words, faith will be so rare, Jesus asks if there will be any left at all by the time He returns. Such a condition is certainly not the hallmark of a world-wide revival and harvest of souls.

Paul says there will be a great “falling away” not a great “revival.” He says God will send a “strong delusion” to all who love not the truth. [II. Thess. 2:3&11]

Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. Hebrews 12:26-28

The writer of Hebrews is quoting the prophet Haggai here. Haggai prophesied that God would shake heaven and earth, land and sea and all nations. That He would send the “latter” and the “former” rain and fill His house with glory and that the glory of the “latter” house would be greater than the glory of the “former” house. Finally, that all nations would come to Zion. [Haggai 2:6-9] It is from this prophesy, primarily, that so many have drawn the erroneous conclusion that there will be a world-wide revival before the return of the Lord.

Yet we must notice carefully when this great move of God is to take place. It happens after God shakes all nations, after everything that can be shaken has been shaken, after everything that can be removed has been removed. Then the “wheat” will shine forth as the sun in the Kingdom of God. Then nations shall be swept into the kingdom.

The teaching of a world-wide “revival” before the return of the Lord has left many sincere believers wide open for deception. Since we were taught to look for this revival and to be ready to participate in it when it comes, many have embraced the Brownsville phenomena, the Toronto Blessing, Promise Keepers and various other aberrations of the hour as the long awaited “revival” of the last days.
At best these movements are a deadly mixture of truth and error. Those who have not become entangled in them are still in danger of being stumbled, for when they realize that the revival they have been waiting for is not coming, many will be thrown into confusion and lose heart.
Those who believe signs, wonders and sensual spiritual experiences are proof of God’s presence are believing a lie. They are looking in the wrong direction! Both Jesus and John warned that the “spirit” that would produce the greatest “signs and wonders” in the latter days would be the False Prophet…Is anybody listening?
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#28
ok Lao.
but i see in scripture that the Spirit (and i know from my personal experience) is the pledge, the earnest of our inheritence, the Gift given to seal us and to sanctify us.

that Gift is given the moment we BELIEVE. so still unclear as to the "obedient" part.

maybe you mean especially in the last days there will be intensified supernatual activity from both sides? that i do believe also.
love zone.
As far as being obedient we need to read it in light of which it was spoken. When Peter said this he was speaking to the council, there were 120 people in the upper room who received the Holy Spirit but, the council did not. So why did the 120 and others receive the Holy Spirit and the Council did not? That is where the answer is.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#29
As far as being obedient we need to read it in light of which it was spoken. When Peter said this he was speaking to the council, there were 120 people in the upper room who received the Holy Spirit but, the council did not. So why did the 120 and others receive the Holy Spirit and the Council did not? That is where the answer is.
Lao....did you receive the gift of salvation because you were obedient?
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#30
Somebody here is sandbagging
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#31
Lao....did you receive the gift of salvation because you were obedient?

Salvation is a free gift received by faith

Ephesians 2:8-10
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
May 2, 2011
1,134
8
0
#33
hi Lao.
i love you. i must object tho:).

the scriptures say apostasy, not revival.

there's nothing anywhere that tells of a future "outpouring". any who are saved will be saved by the same ordained means since pentecost, the preaching of the word.

Like Charles Finney running around Upstate NY rebutting the Mormons and Church of Christ
(Campbellites) just before the first US Civil War. (yes, it was Finney and not Jonathan
Edwards!)


This however does not preclude apostasy, however it rises up BECAUSE of apostasy
sometimes.
 
May 2, 2011
1,134
8
0
#34
what is???
the Charismatic Movement per the OP?
please tell me i'm wrong about you on this.

and what do you mean by this btw:?

The THEME of latter rain and resurrection of the spirit is all through the scripture. No, it is not
about a charismatic movement per se, indeed such a mindset often leads many astray.

As to Zoroastrianism, it is all around us. Some call it Freemasonry, Masonry without the
Apron, Channeling Spirits and such like. People do it naturally by ID mostly and a little EGO.
It is how Crowley pulled his stunts, using associations and suggestion. It is how and why the
UK culture is all about 'Harry Potter' style witchcraft. British Columbia says it all, the Brits
and Columbus, what a combo -- no anchovies please.
 
May 2, 2011
1,134
8
0
#35
The outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain is not going to be like what the charismatics teach it will be conviction of spirit

The only difference to the latter rain to now will be greater conviction, also the Holy Spirit will not be given to anyone but, those who are obedient

There will be a true outpouring of the Holy Spirit but, the Bible teaches that there will be a counterfeit as well
Matthew 7:16
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Matthew 7:17
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil
fruit.

Matthew 7:20
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Matthew 21:41
They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his
vineyard unto other husbandmen
, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Galatians 5: 22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#36
The THEME of latter rain and resurrection of the spirit is all through the scripture. No, it is not
about a charismatic movement per se, indeed such a mindset often leads many astray.

As to Zoroastrianism, it is all around us. Some call it Freemasonry, Masonry without the
Apron, Channeling Spirits and such like. People do it naturally by ID mostly and a little EGO.
It is how Crowley pulled his stunts, using associations and suggestion. It is how and why the
UK culture is all about 'Harry Potter' style witchcraft. British Columbia says it all, the Brits
and Columbus, what a combo -- no anchovies please.
whatever DA.
watch your silliness alright?
i dont appreciate being connected to channeling spirits and the occult.
it's the thing i'm FIGHTING, ok?
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#37


patiently awaiting the return of Christ (that is the topic by the way, you know the Bible verses about early rain and latter rain in the OP?)

diligently studying and learning God's way (that is another topic you can start on another thread or join if you like)

then fervently sharing the good news with the world.

yes that is the great commission but the topic is the meaning of the term "latter rain" see the title?

love u DA hope Our Father is blessing you today :)
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#38
whatever DA.
watch your silliness alright?
i dont appreciate being connected to channeling spirits and the occult.
it's the thing i'm FIGHTING, ok?
rotfl

sorry zone but that was the weirdest association with your name I've heard yet.

especially since you really come down hard on people claiming to channel Jesus (some of those people might just be inapt with their words and mean abiding in the Holy Spirit and not really channeling by the way and may have no clue what you are talking about with the mysticism and heretical talk that people preach, I didn't until I did more research),

I don't see how anyone would think you would approve of "Zoroastrianism" or any form of mysticism or Free Masonry.

lol. wow....

and I thought I was misunderstood at times.

sorry sis your tough nut, most people aren't used to your style of love. ;)
 
Last edited:
Mar 11, 2011
887
5
0
#39
The THEME of latter rain and resurrection of the spirit is all through the scripture. No, it is not
about a charismatic movement per se, indeed such a mindset often leads many astray.

As to Zoroastrianism, it is all around us. Some call it Freemasonry, Masonry without the
Apron, Channeling Spirits and such like. People do it naturally by ID mostly and a little EGO.
It is how Crowley pulled his stunts, using associations and suggestion. It is how and why the
UK culture is all about 'Harry Potter' style witchcraft. British Columbia says it all, the Brits
and Columbus, what a combo -- no anchovies please.
I don't beleive its just the anchovies, theres gotta be some kind of mushrooms involved here. Its a known fact in Canada that these magical mushrooms grow wildy and abundantly in BC.

Lots of people there end up spending time in a phych-ward from over-indulgence. I figure this must have something to do with Zones issues; as she seems to honestly beleive that the millenium with Christ reigning for a thousand mortal years, has already taken place. :D

Whats really scarey is that someone like this, hasn't been banned, but has caused many to be banned, and even worse than that, there are people looking to her for advice :confused:

Good-Luck to ALL-see-ya

Forever in Christ :)
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#40
I don't beleive its just the anchovies, theres gotta be some kind of mushrooms involved here. Its a known fact in Canada that these magical mushrooms grow wildy and abundantly in BC. mean and just not nice :( I would like to object and stand in protest on the implications.

Lots of people there end up spending time in a phych-ward from over-indulgence. I figure this must have something to do with Zones issues; as she seems to honestly beleive that the millenium with Christ reigning for a thousand mortal years, has already taken place. :D not what she believes. if you are going to trash talk her at least get your facts straight.

Whats really scarey is that someone like this, hasn't been banned, but has caused many to be banned, and even worse than that, there are people looking to her for advice :confused: yes we see you are confused

Good-Luck to ALL-see-ya

Forever in Christ :)

Zone is fully capable for answer for herself but I am offended for her by your offensive words.

however let us make it clear though I don't agree with a lot of what Zone says concerning cessationist doctrine. her millenium stance have nothing to do with 1000 HUMAN/ Mortal years.

I think most Amillenialist believe it is more figurative interpertation that 1000 years = the current age and Christ is ruling NOW and that it is not literal years.

though I'm still in prayer and study about what I believe in that chapter of Revelations, at least please bother to study others position instead of just saying lies about it or remain silent.

but perhaps I should listen to these Bible verses?

Proverbs 23:9
Do not speak in the hearing of a fool, For he will despise the wisdom of your words