Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

renewed

reneweddaybyday – Post 2276

The word "partakers" is translated from the Greek word koinōneō which means communion, fellowship, share fully. All descendants of Adam share fully in flesh and blood of mankind.

I know what partakers mean, dont change nothing. I know that all men naturally come out of Adam, Yet all men naturally arent the seed of Abraham. God seperated the seed of Abraham from the rest of mankind

Deut 32:8

When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

And Christ according to the flesh took on that seed part of mankind. A separate people !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

The Lord Jesus Christ did not partake of the blood of men. The Lord Jesus Christ is the only begotten of the Father.

All the rest of mankind ... all descendants of Adam ... all come from one blood:

Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation

Christ took on flesh and blood, do you deny that ? Heb 2:14


Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

The emphasis is on His Humanity, He was a flesh and Blood Man, though of course sinless. Now in His flesh and blood humanity, He came to Identify with one segment of humanity in the things pertaining to God and Salvation, that was the seed of Abraham.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men

for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation

Thats correct, and He will save the seed of Abraham out of all nations of men Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

This is the Spiritual seed of Abraham, the Spiritual Israel Ex 19:6


And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

The point of Heb 2:14 is that the Lord Jesus Christ took upon Himself only a part of flesh and blood. The part the Lord Jesus Christ took upon Himself was flesh (John 1:14).

Thats false and heresy. He took on flesh and blood, humanity. Scripture plainly says He took on the same as His elect brother and sisters Heb 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

So He was a Human Being like the elect children of God, difference of course He is without sin !

And again, His interest was strictly to Identify and save the children from Vs 13 and not all humanity Heb 2:13

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

They are the children chosen in Him by the Father before the foundation !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

The point of Heb 2:16 is that the Lord Jesus Christ did not take upon Himself the nature of angels because the Lord Jesus Christ did not come to redeem angels. The Lord Jesus Christ came to redeem mankind ... all mankind. The only reason the seed of Abraham is mentioned in this verse is because the Book of Hebrews is written to Hebrew (lineal descendants of Abraham) believers.

False, The verse shows us who specifically Jesus came to save, the seed of Abraham, His Church, those who belonged to Him Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

All believers are Abrahams seed, and were heirs to whom the Salvation promises belonged.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

From Summary of the Book of Hebrews (bold mine):

The late Dr. Walter Martin, founder of the Christian Research Institute and writer of the best-selling book Kingdom of the Cults, quipped in his usual tongue-in-cheek manner that the Book of Hebrews was written by a Hebrew to other Hebrews telling the Hebrews to stop acting like Hebrews. In truth, many of the early Jewish believers were slipping back into the rites and rituals of Judaism in order to escape the mounting persecution. This letter, then, is an exhortation for those persecuted believers to continue in the grace of Jesus Chris

Here you go with the race card. Sure the book of hebrews was written to hebrew believers, but the truths about Christ and salvation applied beyond them and was applicable to all believers regardless of race. Jesus isnt the High Priest just for hebrew christians, but for all chrisitans. In fact most of the NT letters were written to specific audiences, or people, but that doesnt mean that they were limited to those persons and audiences. This is elementary.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

The "law" to which the Lord Jesus Christ referred in Matt 23:23 was the lawl of Moses.

The law of moses was derived from the law of creation. Why you think Paul wrote in Rom 2:13-15

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law[of moses], do by nature the things contained in the law,[of creation] these, having not the law[of moses], are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law[of creation] written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)

Also why you think the sabbath day commandment of the law of moses came into effect ? It was established at creation Ex 20:8-11

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Gen 2:1-3

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

See that, so the law of moses, the moral part at least, is an extension to the law of creation. So again, if you make an appeal to human faith, from the nature of man, you make a appeal to the Law, and you are bound to the law to do it perfectly if you expect to go to heaven. Christ profits you nothing !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Sunday at 8:19 PM

#2,351
brightfame52 – Post 2209

Plus by creation man is bound by law to have Faith in God, which is a law of creation Matt 23:23

reneweddaybyday – Post 2213

The "law" to which the Lord Jesus Christ referred in Matt 23:23 was the lawl of Moses.

brightfame52 – Post 2246

you put yourself under the law

reneweddaybyday – Post 2281

nope ... just because you believe faith = law does not mean faith = law. That's just your erroneous dogma.

We different, you believe faith is found in the sinful nature of man, hence a good quality natural man has, I believe faith is found as a fruit of the Spirit, found only in the regenerate man. So your faith, being found in the sinful nature of man, is a work , something man does out of duty, me on the other hand believes Faith is a gift of God, given in regeneration, so its not my work, its Gods work in me. Jn 6:29

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

So therein lie the difference between you and I, you believe faith is from the sinful nature of man, I believe faith is found in the new created born again man and is a fruit and gift of God the Holy Spirit.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Let go of your erroneous dogma which tells you that faith is "technically its law".

Scripture says no such thing ... you know it ... I know it ... I know you know it ... but you just keep trying to force Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma.

Scripture plainly states that faith ≠ works:

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Clearly faith is not works. And for you to continue to insist that faith = works is nothing but you suppressing the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18).

Here this, you make anything you do or dont do a condition for salvation, or Justification before God, it defaults to law keeping works salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed quotes

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth

on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Sorry that verse doesnt say believing isnt a work. And again believing is the fruit of being born again. So the one believing there is one who has been born of God, who has eternal life in them Jn 3:36


He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Jn 5:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Believing on the Son is an evidence that one has everlasting life.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Jesus said nothing about "human faith" because there is no such thing as "human faith".

Thats false, Jesus was speaking here Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Now you said yourself that Jesus was speaking about the law of moses here.

So is this the faith spoken of here Eph 4:5

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Are these the same Faith ?

 

[brightfame52]

nope, the Greek word eklektos (English "elect") does not appear in any of those verses

In fact, the word eklektos (English "elect") does not appear in the gospel of John at all, nor does it appear in the epistle of 1 John.

Your attempt to try to force Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma has again failed.
.

It doesnt have to appear. The world is any gathering together of any sort. Its the greek word kosmos and means:

any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

The gathering togerther of all the elect of God, or children of God Jn 11:51-52

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Or the gathering together of all Christs Sheep Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

So thats the world Christ Loved and died for. His Church. Church means:

ekklēsia :

a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly

1. an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
2. the assembly of the Israelites
3. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
4. in a Christian sense

So using the word world covers the collection of Gods elect eklektos from all nations.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed quoted

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth

that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Again this verse proves that the one believing had been born of God. So does Jn 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

which were born could read which had been born because its an aorist passive indicative. There having been born of God is the reason for their action in Vs 12 of receiving and believing.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

another blasphemous statement from the keyboard of brightfame52.

Provide the post submitted by me wherein I stated what you claim I said. You cannot.

You are the only one who has made that statement.

Whats blasphemous is teaching that sinners Christ died for, and put away their sins before the Justice of God, is to teach that they still go to hell in their sins anyway !

the Lord Jesus Christ died for all descendants of Adam ... the world ... the whole world.

False statement. And since you do realize the the whole world isnt going to be saved, you cannot believe that Jesus Christs death saves anyone.

Faith is not the proof that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the world, the whole world, all descendants of Adam.

Again if Christ died for an individual, their unbelief is forgiven and they are given the gift of Faith to believe !

If a person hears the gospel and does not believe it is not because Christ did not die for him/her.

Yes it is why, they dont believe because they were not of His Sheep that He died for Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

If Jesus died for one, they were His Sheep and they eventually believe as evidence !

It is because that person suppresses the truth in unrighteousness as shown in Romans 1:

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


vs 18 – the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to restrain, suppress.

vs 19 – the words "hath shewed" are translated from the Greek word phaneroō which means apparent, manifest, evident known.

vs 20 – they are without excuse

This describes all of us by nature ! Yet Christ saves His Sheep from all that sin !

That is a lie from the pit.

What that Christ died for sin ? Unbelief ?

That is a lie from the pit.

Your so-called "elect" is born into this world in the image and likeness of his/her earthly father and mother (i.e. natural man).

All descendants of Adam live as shown in Ephesians 2:2-3:

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


vs 3 makes clear that all lived as described in vs 2.

Your so-called "elect" fallacy again fails under the scrutiny of the full light of Scripture.

Once a person is born again, he/she leaves that life of living according to the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind. He/she is joined to the Elect of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is head over His body and each born again one is a member in particular.

No one is "elect" until he/she is a member in particular of the Elect of God, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Sure the elect were sinners just like what Paul is describing in Eph 2:2-3, Yet God didnt charge them with their sins, with their unbelief, because He charged all that on Christ, and Christ put away all their sins and satisfied Gods law and Justice on their behalf ! Thank God for His Grace to His Elect !

 

[FreeGrace2]

Whats blasphemous is teaching that sinners Christ died for, and put away their sins before the Justice of God, is to teach that they still go to hell in their sins anyway !

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, that He died so that "WHOSOEVER", meaning anyone, believes in Him, shall not perish but have eterlasting life.

You have NO verses that teach that Christ died for ONLY some people. He died for ALL people, and there are verses that say that.

Calvinism teaches false doctrine.

If salvation is by who Christ died for, faith or believing in Him can't be an issue in salvation. Yet, in every verse about how to be saved, the sole condition IS faith in Him.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Faith is not the proof that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the world, the whole world, all

I never said that, thats your manipulation tatic, however Faith is the evidence, proof that Christ died for that certain individual, it proves they were a child of promise, a spiritual seed of Abraham Gal 3:7-9


7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Remember Jesus came to save the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

The seed of Abraham will always come to Faith !

 

[brightfame52]

No one is "elect" until he/she is a member in particular of the Elect of God, the Lord Jesus Christ.

The elect have been chosen and placed in Christ by the Father before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God gave them grace in Christ before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

So the elect have always been in Christ by the purpose and election of God !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

nope

All your attempts to eliminate the faith issue fail because Scripture tells us in numerous places:

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith

Again Justification before God is prior to Faith in Christ, its based on the Blood of Christ Rom 5:9 and then the Justified one is given Faith to believe and receive it, which issues in peace in their mind, heart and conscience. Thats what Justification by Faith means, Christ is the object of Faith !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Nope, Scripture makes clear that faith ≠ works

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Clearly faith is not works. And for you to continue to insist that faith = works is nothing but you suppressing the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18).

You usurp faith from its true meaning and make it a condition found in the natural man, when you do that, it defaults to works, law keeping.

I and other Christians see Faith as not found in the natural man at all, but its given by God when He gives us new life by the Spirit, so Faith is Gods work in us, and not our work by nature. So as long as you usurp faith and make it a condition you performed as a natural man, you place yourself under the law, good luck with that in the day of Judgment !

 

[brightfame52]

if Christ hath died for us, whether we have believed or not, we are Justified
lie

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith

Oh no its the truth and no lie, Christs death alone Justifies a sinner before God, and later they are given faith to receive the knowledge of it.
If you dont believe that, then thats unbelief !