Who Justifieth the Ungodly
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just more of your "born again in order to believe that through which a person is born again" dogmaSince [according to you] they're already "having been born of God" (vs 13), they are already "sons of God" and there is no reason for them to "become the sons of God" (vs 12) ... no reason for the Lord Jesus Christ to have to give them anything.
So, again, under your erroneous dogma how many times must a person be born again before they are really, truly, really, really, really, scout's honor born again???
Your erroneous dogma again fails under the full scrutiny of the light of Scripture.
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13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
Children here paidion means little ones, recently born, they as Christ their Spiritual Father , put their trust in God. The word trust peithō :means to persuade to believe
Its the new born again ones who are persuaded to trust from hearing the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
renewed
False teaching. Jesus died exclusively for the seed of Abraham, His Sheep, or Gods elect
Thats absolutely correct, He died for all the sins of Gods elect, including unbelief, thats why they and only they are saved out from it
Sorry but thats no lie Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
The elects sins have been laid to the charge of Christ, He was condemned for and died for them. So they wont ever be laid to the charge again to Gods elect, unless somebody undo what Christ had suffered and done for them.
Thats one of the most unintelligent comments I have read, because its because the elects sins have been charged to Christ their Saviour and He died for them, having satisfied Gods Justice for them, that they will never be recharged on the elect duh !
Eph 1:4 says nothing about a plan being put in place, but an activity of God the Father took place, He chose His People for Himself in Christ before the foundation of the world. He didnt plan it, He actually did it.
Correct, slain for His Sheep whose sins had been charged to Him from the foundation of the world. Those who are the ones He foreknew, foreloved and wrote there names in the Lambs book of life, to be the beneficiaries of His death.
The ones believing are the regenerated elect, only the regenerate have a spiritual will and Faith given to them to believe.
Yes it is Gods purpose, He chooses who will be His elect and receive Salvation, and who doesnt and will die in their sins. Rom 9:11-14
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
And people like you and myself before God converted me, think God is unfair, unrighteous in How He elects some and hates the rest and leaves them in their sins to perish in the wrath of God.
All by nature reject God and His Truth, thats why He regenerates some and gives them a willing heart to believe and obey and submit to Him.
Contrary, the focus is on Christ Jesus, because the elect who were chosen in Him, were given purpose and grace in Him before the world began, and thats why they are saved, regenerated and called in time ! 2 Tim 19
The rest of mankind is outside of the elect one Christ Jesus
All who believe are the regenerate elect, all who dot believe are the non elect Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep[Elect], as I said unto you.
Elect and Sheep are the same ones, and if you notice they are Sheep/Elect before they believe and is the reason why they believe, others who dont never believe is because they were never Gods Sheep/elect in the first place !
Im nothing, save hopefully a vessel of mercy, merely testifying to the Gospel of Gods Grace which unfortunately you appear to oppose vehemently !
False teaching. Jesus died exclusively for the seed of Abraham, His Sheep, or Gods elect
Thats absolutely correct, He died for all the sins of Gods elect, including unbelief, thats why they and only they are saved out from it
Sorry but thats no lie Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
The elects sins have been laid to the charge of Christ, He was condemned for and died for them. So they wont ever be laid to the charge again to Gods elect, unless somebody undo what Christ had suffered and done for them.
Thats one of the most unintelligent comments I have read, because its because the elects sins have been charged to Christ their Saviour and He died for them, having satisfied Gods Justice for them, that they will never be recharged on the elect duh !
Eph 1:4 says nothing about a plan being put in place, but an activity of God the Father took place, He chose His People for Himself in Christ before the foundation of the world. He didnt plan it, He actually did it.
Correct, slain for His Sheep whose sins had been charged to Him from the foundation of the world. Those who are the ones He foreknew, foreloved and wrote there names in the Lambs book of life, to be the beneficiaries of His death.
The ones believing are the regenerated elect, only the regenerate have a spiritual will and Faith given to them to believe.
Yes it is Gods purpose, He chooses who will be His elect and receive Salvation, and who doesnt and will die in their sins. Rom 9:11-14
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
And people like you and myself before God converted me, think God is unfair, unrighteous in How He elects some and hates the rest and leaves them in their sins to perish in the wrath of God.
All by nature reject God and His Truth, thats why He regenerates some and gives them a willing heart to believe and obey and submit to Him.
Contrary, the focus is on Christ Jesus, because the elect who were chosen in Him, were given purpose and grace in Him before the world began, and thats why they are saved, regenerated and called in time ! 2 Tim 19
The rest of mankind is outside of the elect one Christ Jesus
All who believe are the regenerate elect, all who dot believe are the non elect Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep[Elect], as I said unto you.
Elect and Sheep are the same ones, and if you notice they are Sheep/Elect before they believe and is the reason why they believe, others who dont never believe is because they were never Gods Sheep/elect in the first place !
Im nothing, save hopefully a vessel of mercy, merely testifying to the Gospel of Gods Grace which unfortunately you appear to oppose vehemently !
Someone posted the truth:
"The Lord Jesus Christ died for all descendants of Adam ... the world ... the whole world."
If true, prove it with Scripture that clearly says that Christ's death was limited to a particular group.
Why do you oppose vehemently the truth that Jesus Christ IS the Savior of the world (Jn 4:42) and the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29)?
And that "whosoever believes has eternal life and shall never perish".
"The Lord Jesus Christ died for all descendants of Adam ... the world ... the whole world."
If true, prove it with Scripture that clearly says that Christ's death was limited to a particular group.
Why do you oppose vehemently the truth that Jesus Christ IS the Savior of the world (Jn 4:42) and the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29)?
And that "whosoever believes has eternal life and shall never perish".
renewed
Yes you have. You make it a human quality in the natural man. Thats not what it is sorry !
I know this
Yes your understanding of faith is a human work, which puts it into the Law category Matt 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone
You put yourself under law and anyone else who believes like you
Your point doesnt make no sense. The resurrection of Christ from the dead is evidence that those elect for whom He died are Justified and forgiven of their sins Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.
Yes you have. You make it a human quality in the natural man. Thats not what it is sorry !
I know this
Yes your understanding of faith is a human work, which puts it into the Law category Matt 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone
You put yourself under law and anyone else who believes like you
Your point doesnt make no sense. The resurrection of Christ from the dead is evidence that those elect for whom He died are Justified and forgiven of their sins Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.
renewed
Ive judged what you have said about it, and its error and false teaching !
I never said anything about judging anyones heart. I judge what comes out your mouth about salvation. But understand this Matt 12:34
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
You missing the point, you still making a judgment. So stop being a hypocrite
Yep you have taken what is a Gift from God and His Grace, and made it a work, a quality in the flesh of the natural man. You have debased faith !
I have patiently explained that to you, you flat out have denied Justification before God solely by the Blood of Christ Rom 5:9. You need your human faith. Okay you got it, see ya at the Judgment !
Right Faith receives the testimony of Rom 4:25 that Christ was raised for our Justification
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Thats proof that the elect who Christ died for were Justified before God by Christs blood. Yet you vehemently deny it. You deny the witness of the resurrection, thats serious my friend.
Ive judged what you have said about it, and its error and false teaching !
I never said anything about judging anyones heart. I judge what comes out your mouth about salvation. But understand this Matt 12:34
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
You missing the point, you still making a judgment. So stop being a hypocrite
Yep you have taken what is a Gift from God and His Grace, and made it a work, a quality in the flesh of the natural man. You have debased faith !
I have patiently explained that to you, you flat out have denied Justification before God solely by the Blood of Christ Rom 5:9. You need your human faith. Okay you got it, see ya at the Judgment !
Right Faith receives the testimony of Rom 4:25 that Christ was raised for our Justification
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Thats proof that the elect who Christ died for were Justified before God by Christs blood. Yet you vehemently deny it. You deny the witness of the resurrection, thats serious my friend.
renewed
I have explained this passage to you numerous times, you cant understand it
Romans 3:
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
You have rejected Justification by the blood of Christ alone Rom 5:9
You flat out deny Rom 4:5 and add your works into the equation !
The rest of your post is garbage
I have explained this passage to you numerous times, you cant understand it
Romans 3:
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
You have rejected Justification by the blood of Christ alone Rom 5:9
You flat out deny Rom 4:5 and add your works into the equation !
The rest of your post is garbage
I didn't read all your post. I'll just reply to your first statement: False teaching. Jesus died exclusively for the seed of Abraham, His Sheep, or Gods elect.
That simply isn't true. Jesus death paid the price for all sin for all time. There isn't a single person that Jesus didn't die for. John 3:16-17, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
That simply isn't true. Jesus death paid the price for all sin for all time. There isn't a single person that Jesus didn't die for. John 3:16-17, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
renewed
To be Justified by Faith in Rom 5:1 is merely saying to be Justified by Christ, by His Blood, Christ and His Blood is the object of believing Faith, hence in Vs 9 it reads Now being Justified by His Blood, because thats the object of God given Faith Rom 5:1,9
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
How does one know they are Justified by His Blood ? By Faith
Now unfortunate for you, you deny what Faith makes known to be True.
To be Justified by Faith in Rom 5:1 is merely saying to be Justified by Christ, by His Blood, Christ and His Blood is the object of believing Faith, hence in Vs 9 it reads Now being Justified by His Blood, because thats the object of God given Faith Rom 5:1,9
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
How does one know they are Justified by His Blood ? By Faith
Now unfortunate for you, you deny what Faith makes known to be True.
renewed said
Yep Rom 5:18 is referring to the same group of the many in Rom 5:19 and in Rom 8:33 we are told who God Justifies:
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Justifieth here of the elect, is the same Justification of life in Rom 5:18
Plus the all men in Rom 5:18 are all Justified according to the verse. The word Justification dikaiōsis :
Has God declared all without exception free from guilt and acceptable to Him ? Does He abjure all without exception to be righteous ? Nope, only the many as in Vs 19 clarifies Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
And this many is the Church, His Body ! So it is in Vs 18
Yep Rom 5:18 is referring to the same group of the many in Rom 5:19 and in Rom 8:33 we are told who God Justifies:
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Justifieth here of the elect, is the same Justification of life in Rom 5:18
Plus the all men in Rom 5:18 are all Justified according to the verse. The word Justification dikaiōsis :
- the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him
- abjuring to be righteous, justification
Has God declared all without exception free from guilt and acceptable to Him ? Does He abjure all without exception to be righteous ? Nope, only the many as in Vs 19 clarifies Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
And this many is the Church, His Body ! So it is in Vs 18
renewed
You dont understand that verse. Whoever Christ died for, shed His Blood for, His Blood propitiated God on their behalf, to such God gives them the Gift of Faith to know and receive it. In fact, the only ones Christ propitiated God for, are the ones who because of that, are given the gift of faith. So 1 Jn 2:2 is speaking of the whole world of believers, from all people and from all time.
But you cant and dont understand these things, maybe someone else may understand it.
You think faith is mans contribution to get himself saved. Thats works !
You dont understand that verse. Whoever Christ died for, shed His Blood for, His Blood propitiated God on their behalf, to such God gives them the Gift of Faith to know and receive it. In fact, the only ones Christ propitiated God for, are the ones who because of that, are given the gift of faith. So 1 Jn 2:2 is speaking of the whole world of believers, from all people and from all time.
But you cant and dont understand these things, maybe someone else may understand it.
You think faith is mans contribution to get himself saved. Thats works !
renewed
Thats false. A person is Justified by the blood of Christ Rom 5:9 which was shed for them in 33 ad, now when a person who Christ blood Justified in 33 ad is born a ungodly sinner say in 1952, they are born a ungodly sinner already Justified in the court of heaven by Christs blood. Do you believe that ?
Thats false. A person is Justified by the blood of Christ Rom 5:9 which was shed for them in 33 ad, now when a person who Christ blood Justified in 33 ad is born a ungodly sinner say in 1952, they are born a ungodly sinner already Justified in the court of heaven by Christs blood. Do you believe that ?
renewed
Yep since Christ has died for them before their physical birth, for that's what Justified them before Gods awesome tribunal But you deny that the blood of Christ had any such justifying effect at the tribunal of God, not until the sinner exercises his or her faith. So in essence you say the exercising of a persons faith had more justifying effect before God than Jesus blood did. Which is blasphemous to say the least.
Im not here to call attention on me, so quit lying, Im here to call attention to the Justifying blood of Christ, which you vehemently deny. If Im elect, its only by the mercy and grace of God.
There you go lying on me again. All the elect are born ungodly sinners, just they are born Justified ungodly sinners, hence Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
They are born Justified ungodly sinners because Christs blood which was shed for them before they were born, Justified them before God.
Your lying on me and purposely misrepresenting what I have stated is from the pits of hell my friend. Very dishonest.
Again mre lies and misrepresentation, I never said sinners including myself, werent born ungodly, all of us are born ungodly, save Christ, but the elect who are born ungodly are yet Justified because of Christs blood shed for them. So get it right or continue in your diabolical lies and misrepresentations.
Amen the elect are ungodly until they are born again. But because of Christs blood shed for them before they were born again, they were Justified by it before they were born again, hence Justified while being ungodly.
False once a born again person believes, they are sealed with the Spirit of promise !
Correct after the heard, thats implying they were spiritually alive when they heard spiritually the word of truth. Jesus said one who is of the truth hearth His voice Jn 18:37
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Now to be of the Truth one must be born again
So by the fact that those Ephesians heard the word of truth, evidences they were already born again in order to hear.
One was no longer ungodly after they were born again, then they become believers. But they were Justified before God by Christs blood, while ungodly, while unregenerate, while being unbelievers.
Now if you going to discuss or dispute what I have said, do it with integrity and honesty please ! 759
Yep since Christ has died for them before their physical birth, for that's what Justified them before Gods awesome tribunal But you deny that the blood of Christ had any such justifying effect at the tribunal of God, not until the sinner exercises his or her faith. So in essence you say the exercising of a persons faith had more justifying effect before God than Jesus blood did. Which is blasphemous to say the least.
Im not here to call attention on me, so quit lying, Im here to call attention to the Justifying blood of Christ, which you vehemently deny. If Im elect, its only by the mercy and grace of God.
There you go lying on me again. All the elect are born ungodly sinners, just they are born Justified ungodly sinners, hence Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
They are born Justified ungodly sinners because Christs blood which was shed for them before they were born, Justified them before God.
Your lying on me and purposely misrepresenting what I have stated is from the pits of hell my friend. Very dishonest.
Again mre lies and misrepresentation, I never said sinners including myself, werent born ungodly, all of us are born ungodly, save Christ, but the elect who are born ungodly are yet Justified because of Christs blood shed for them. So get it right or continue in your diabolical lies and misrepresentations.
Amen the elect are ungodly until they are born again. But because of Christs blood shed for them before they were born again, they were Justified by it before they were born again, hence Justified while being ungodly.
False once a born again person believes, they are sealed with the Spirit of promise !
Correct after the heard, thats implying they were spiritually alive when they heard spiritually the word of truth. Jesus said one who is of the truth hearth His voice Jn 18:37
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Now to be of the Truth one must be born again
So by the fact that those Ephesians heard the word of truth, evidences they were already born again in order to hear.
One was no longer ungodly after they were born again, then they become believers. But they were Justified before God by Christs blood, while ungodly, while unregenerate, while being unbelievers.
Now if you going to discuss or dispute what I have said, do it with integrity and honesty please ! 759
renewed
You deny Rom 4:5 and teach the very opposite.
That they were Justified/forgiven by His Blood ! Rom 5:9
Yes you must be born again to believe in Jesus, and those for whom He died, His Sheep, will be given the gift of believing for His sake Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Now when it says it is given in the behalf of Christ to believe on Him, it means , it was given on the account of His Meritorious death, and His Intercession, that why some are graciously favored to believe in Jesus !
You deny Rom 4:5 and teach the very opposite.
That they were Justified/forgiven by His Blood ! Rom 5:9
Yes you must be born again to believe in Jesus, and those for whom He died, His Sheep, will be given the gift of believing for His sake Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Now when it says it is given in the behalf of Christ to believe on Him, it means , it was given on the account of His Meritorious death, and His Intercession, that why some are graciously favored to believe in Jesus !
P
Thanks for that comment. It is the "SERIOUS" inconsistencies that mess us up? I am getting better at catching them and then I also know that scripture tells us to be always sober minded and vigilant and satan or the devil is as a roaring lion looking to devour. And also that satan or the devil can seem to be an angel of light, I think. Now the roaring lion seems to me should be readily apparent since it is roaring but the angel of light may be insidious. I'll pray about it.
God is Just in Justifying the Ungodly !3
God Justifieth the Ungodly ! Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Now when are those being Justified as the Ungodly ? Is it before they believe or have Faith in Christ ? The answer is Yes, for while they are being ungodly sinners, Christ has died for them Rom 5:6-8
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
His death Justified them as Ungodly , when Ungodly !
Remember Paul says after saying it is God that Justifieth in Rom 8:33, in Vs 34 He said it was because Christ died Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
When Christ died, it Justified the Ungodly He died for !
Not only that, Belief of the Truth is an act of godliness Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
So if He Justified them when they believed, He Justified them while they were acting Godly, which overthrows the very foundation of the Truth of Rom 4:5 that He Justifies the Ungodly !
Regarding Rom 5:6-8 its plain from the passage that Christ died for them while being ungodly, and again that's why they were Justified, because Christ died for them, and by that fact alone, they shall be made Righteous, or made Just, which is the same as Justified, So those Christ died for are made righteous / Justified while they are ungodly sinners in unbelief, to the credit of Christ's Death and God's Grace ! 14
God Justifieth the Ungodly ! Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Now when are those being Justified as the Ungodly ? Is it before they believe or have Faith in Christ ? The answer is Yes, for while they are being ungodly sinners, Christ has died for them Rom 5:6-8
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
His death Justified them as Ungodly , when Ungodly !
Remember Paul says after saying it is God that Justifieth in Rom 8:33, in Vs 34 He said it was because Christ died Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
When Christ died, it Justified the Ungodly He died for !
Not only that, Belief of the Truth is an act of godliness Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
So if He Justified them when they believed, He Justified them while they were acting Godly, which overthrows the very foundation of the Truth of Rom 4:5 that He Justifies the Ungodly !
Regarding Rom 5:6-8 its plain from the passage that Christ died for them while being ungodly, and again that's why they were Justified, because Christ died for them, and by that fact alone, they shall be made Righteous, or made Just, which is the same as Justified, So those Christ died for are made righteous / Justified while they are ungodly sinners in unbelief, to the credit of Christ's Death and God's Grace ! 14
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