Why can’t i speak in tongues as a Christian

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Why can’t i speak in tongues as a Christian

  • I need the holy sprite

    Votes: 1 12.5%
  • God’s guidances

    Votes: 7 87.5%

  • Total voters
    8

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
God, Holy Spirit dwells in us

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
James 4:5
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
1 John 3:24
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
1 John 4:13
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
Numbers 11:25
And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

Numbers 11:26
But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.

Numbers 11:29
And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord'S people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!

Numbers 24:2
And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes; and the spirit of God came upon him.

Numbers 27:18
And the Lord said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;

Deuteronomy 34:9
And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him: and the children of Israel hearkened unto him, and did as the Lord commanded Moses.

Judges 3:10
And the Spirit of the Lord came upon him, and he judged Israel, and went out to war: and the Lord delivered Chushanrishathaim king of Mesopotamia into his hand; and his hand prevailed against Chushanrishathaim.

Judges 6:34
But the Spirit of the Lord came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet; and Abiezer was gathered after him.

Judges 11:29
Then the Spirit of the Lord came upon Jephthah, and he passed over Gilead, and Manasseh, and passed over Mizpeh of Gilead, and from Mizpeh of Gilead he passed over unto the children of Ammon.

Judges 14:6
And the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon him, and he rent him as he would have rent a kid, and he had nothing in his hand: but he told not his father or his mother what he had done.

Judges 14:19
And the Spirit of the Lord came upon him, and he went down to Ashkelon, and slew thirty men of them, and took their spoil, and gave change of garments unto them which expounded the riddle. And his anger was kindled, and he went up to his father's house.

Judges 15:14
And when he came unto Lehi, the Philistines shouted against him: and the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon him, and the cords that were upon his arms became as flax that was burnt with fire, and his bands loosed from off his hands.

1 Samuel 10:6
And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

1 Samuel 10:10
And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

1 Samuel 11:6
And the Spirit of God came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his anger was kindled greatly.

1 Samuel 16:13
Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

1 Samuel 19:20
And Saul sent messengers to take David: and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as appointed over them, the Spirit of God was upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.

1 Samuel 19:23
And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied, until he came to Naioth in Ramah.

2 Kings 2:9
And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.


1 Chronicles 12:18
Then the spirit came upon Amasai, who was chief of the captains, and he said, Thine are we, David, and on thy side, thou son of Jesse: peace, peace be unto thee, and peace be to thine helpers; for thy God helpeth thee. Then David received them, and made them captains of the band.

2 Chronicles 15:1
And the Spirit of God came upon Azariah the son of Oded:

2 Chronicles 18:23
Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near, and smote Micaiah upon the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the Lord from me to speak unto thee?

2 Chronicles 20:14
Then upon Jahaziel the son of Zechariah, the son of Benaiah, the son of Jeiel, the son of Mattaniah, a Levite of the sons of Asaph, came the Spirit of the Lord in the midst of the congregation;

2 Chronicles 24:20
And the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, which stood above the people, and said unto them, Thus saith God, Why transgress ye the commandments of the Lord, that ye cannot prosper? because ye have forsaken the Lord, he hath also forsaken you.

Isaiah 11:2
And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;

Isaiah 32:15
Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest.

Isaiah 42:1
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 44:3
For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Isaiah 59:21
As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.

Isaiah 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Ezekiel 2:2
And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me.

Ezekiel 3:24
Then the spirit entered into me, and set me upon my feet, and spake with me, and said unto me, Go, shut thyself within thine house.

Ezekiel 11:5
And the Spirit of the Lord fell upon me, and said unto me, Speak; Thus saith the Lord; Thus have ye said, O house of Israel: for I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them.

Ezekiel 37:1
The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

Joel 2:28 NOTE: NO TONGUES
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Joel 2:29
And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Luke 2:40
And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

John 1:32
And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

2 Kings 2:15
And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.

Isaiah 11:2
And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
Matthew 28:19
King James Version
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Didache (60-90AD) Christian Manual
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

"
The teaching of the Trinity is limited to the New Testament, the Didache, the writings of Clement of Rome around the time of the destruction of the temple (AD 70), Barnabas (around AD 75), and Hermas (AD 75-85). Matthew 28:19-20 gives a good picture of the Trinity:

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
https://www.mrm.org/trinity-early-history go to the link there is alot more histoircal proof.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
Quote:

Name or Names?

Next, Oneness proponents claim that since Matthew wrote “name” instead of “names” in 28:19, he must be referring to one noun, not three. This turns 28:19 into a riddle, where we need to figure out what singular name represents the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Their answer, of course, is “Jesus Christ.” This is ironic because using their own logic, “Christ” isn’t a name. It’s a title.

Nevertheless, this insistence that Matthew would have used the plural “names” if he’d meant for people to be baptized into three names is incorrect in Greek and English. Consider this sentence:

“Rain poured down, striking the head of Bill, and Cindy, and Raul.” Is this sentence correct? Yes. If I’d have written, “… striking the heads of Bill, and Cindy, and Raul,” I’d have been wrong unless I was claiming that Bill, Cindy, and Raul each have multiple heads.

Here’s an example from Exodus 23:13

Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and do not mention the name of other gods, nor let them be heard from your mouth.

Exodus links the singular “name” with the plural “gods.” See also Deuteronomy 18:20 and Joshua 23:7-8.

What Does “In The Name Of …” mean?

Oneness proponents have a simplistic view of what it means to be baptized “in the name,” as if there is a specific magic incantation that must be uttered in order for baptism to “work” and the person to truly be saved.

Colossians 3:17 says:

Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.

Does this mean you rise out of bed and, all day long, you say:

“I wash my face in the name of Jesus.” I put on clothes in the name of Jesus. I eat my Captain Crunch in the name of Jesus …

Or maybe Colossians 3:17 just means that you do everything under the authority — and in worship of — Jesus.

It’s the same with prayer. Praying, “in the name of Jesus” means praying as directed and authorized by Jesus (as in the Lord’s Prayer, which does not include any reference to God the Son). You don’t have to literally say, “In the name of Jesus” for God to hear your prayer (not that there’s anything wrong with saying, “in the name of Jesus”).

In 1 Corinthians 1:14-15, Paul writes:

I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you were baptized in my name.

Paul wasn’t worried that anyone would have accused him of literally saying, “I now baptize you in the name of Paul.” He meant, “No one can accuse me of baptizing under my own authority, instead of Christ’s.”

Baptism “in the name of Jesus Christ” (Acts 2:38) means baptism as commanded by the risen Lord (in Matthew 28:19), not something different.

Matt 28:19 for Baptizers/ Acts 2:38 for Baptizees

Don’t forget the difference of perspective between Jesus’ command in Matthew 28:19 and Peter’s words in Acts 2:38. In Matthew, Jesus tells “baptizers” how to baptize. In Acts, Peter tells unbaptized people that Jesus is the authority they are to be baptized under. It is the baptismal candidate (the baptized person) who is to call on the name of the Lord. Acts 22:16 sheds more light:

Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’

The grammar of the passage shows that the one being baptized is to call on Jesus’ name. It is what we call the “confession of faith.”

At my church, right before we baptize, the baptizer asks, “What is your sacred confession?”

The baptismal candidate responds, “Jesus is Lord.”

Then the baptizer says, “Upon your confession of faith, I now baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.”

In this way we fulfill the intent of both Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2:38.

How Did The Early Church Really Do It?

First, these are not magical incantations. Baptism is not hokus-pokus salvation. Those who insist that Acts 2:38 must be recited in order for the baptism to “work” are guilty of turning baptism into a spell.

But what did the first Christians say as they were baptizing converts? Oneness/Jesus’ Only practitioners say that the book of Acts proves their claim. But if Luke, the writer of Acts, had intended to record word-for-word the exact phrase the baptizer was to utter, then why didn’t he write it the same way every time?

  • Acts 2:38 “… in the name of Jesus Christ …”
  • 8:16 “… in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
  • 10:48 “… in the name of Jesus Christ.”
  • 19:5 “ … in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
  • 22:16 “… calling on His name.”
One would think that if there is a precise formula of words that needs to be said in order for baptism to “work,” Luke would have been careful enough to record it that way every time. Luke didn’t report a formula, liturgical phrase, or incantation that was said before every baptism. He noted that these baptisms were performed under the authority of Jesus.

The emphasis in every verse is on the person being baptized, not the one doing the baptizing. This is why we don’t read “they were baptized by Paul, who said, ‘in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.’”

But consider Acts 19:2-3. Paul comes to some disciples at Ephesus:

He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.”

Isn’t it odd that Paul answers the admission, “we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit,” by blurting, “Into what then were you baptized?”

His response would make no sense, except that Paul can’t understand how they could have heard the baptizer say, “in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit,” and yet claim they’d never heard whether there is a Holy Spirit. As soon as they confess their ignorance about the third Person of the Trinity, Paul knows that something was amiss with their baptisms.

Next, consider the Didache, a church manual written perhaps as early as 60 A.D., which circulated throughout the ancient churches in the Roman empire. It says, “… baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit.”

Of course, the Didache isn’t in the Bible. But the New Testament epistle writers dealt with major heresies and problems in the churches. Paul, Peter, James and other apostles likely lived a few years after the writing of the Didache, while John lived decades after. If the formula for the Didache was a grievous error, wouldn’t somebody have denounced it?

Is Oneness/Jesus Only A New Revelation From God?

Oneness/Jesus-only proponents will often say that this is a new revelation that came sometime during or after the Azusa Street Revival of 1906, which is generally regarded to be the birth of modern Pentecostalism.

But the argument that Jesus Christ is the secret answer to the riddle, “What is the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit,” did not come by revelation to any 20th century prophet. It came from a fifth century Monophysite monk named Shenoute.

And the ancient gnostic heretic Marcion first said, “I baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ” (see Cyprian, Letter 72,4). Marcion did not use Matthew 28:19 because he did not accept Matthew’s Gospel. Nor did he accept the Old Testament, because he believed Jehovah was a false god. His “bible” only contained a greatly edited version of Luke’s writings and Paul’s letters.

There is nothing new under the sun.

So there you have it. The Oneness/Jesus Only version of baptism doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Further, it stems from a denial and misunderstanding of the Trinity. To be baptized in this formula is to reject the authority of Jesus himself — it is, in fact, to reject Peter’s Spirit-inspired command to be baptized “in the name (under the authority) of Jesus Christ.”

Tagged as: Acts 2:38, baptism, Jesus Name, Jesus Only, Matthew 28:19, Oneness, trinity
https://mysonginthenight.com/2019/0...sus-name-how-to-talk-to-oneness-pentecostals/
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
quotes:

Evaluation of "tongues" by linguists and others:
Two secular researchers conducted studies of Glossolalia in the 1970's:

Felicitas Goodman, who used an anthropological approach across a range of cultures, 1,2 and
William Samarin who used a linguistic approach. 3,4,5,6

Some conclusions and opinions of linguists are:

William Samarin wrote:

"When the full apparatus of linguistic science comes to bear on glossolalia, this turns out to be only a facade of language — although at times a very good one indeed. For when we comprehend what language is, we must conclude that no glossa, no matter how well constructed, is a specimen of human language, because it is neither internally organized nor systematically related to the world man perceives." 7
J.G. Melton 8 wrote briefly of Samarin's findings, who concluded that glossolalia is not a true language. Only a few consonants and vowels appear in it.
An academic Internet mailing list, "The Linguist List" focused on glossolalia in early 1995. 9
Some of the subscribers noted that glossolalia had a simple primitive structure, and exhibited very frequent repetition of individual sounds.
One commented that the words spoken within a given church tended to be similar, and unlike the sounds heard within in another congregation.
Another commented that his observations among American churchgoers showed that they "seem to latch onto and then repeat sounds that sound foreign to them, and intersperse the name 'Jesus' in between the sounds."
Still another said that: "there are two continental charismatic traditions - a French one concentrating on melodious spontaneous song and a German/English one concentrating on speech."
A subscriber stated that:
"Some years ago as an undergraduate, I memorized the first eleven lines to Beowulf. Occasionally I recited them to people (I still do). Once I recited them to a friend from Alabama, and she told me that if I did that back where she came from, folks would say I was speaking in tongues."​
The moderator noted that the:
"... native language of the speaker was a pretty good predictor of the kinds of sounds that would occur in glossolalia; one general pattern was that sounds perceived as generally marking "foreign" speech (whatever that may mean) would occur, while sounds perceived as typical of the native language would not. Thus, for American English speakers, /r/ would be rendered as the alveolar trill, never as the American retroflex; on the other hand, these speakers would not include the low front vowel in their glossolalia, /ae/-as-digraph, because that's perceived as a typically "American" sound for some reason. On the other hand, truly exotic sounds--those not typical of the native language, but that don't happen to be familiar to speakers of the language--would tend not to occur: American English speakers don't produce clicks in their glossolalia."​
D.J. James quotes some conclusions of William Samarin:
"When the full apparatus of linguistic science comes to bear on glossolalia, this turns out to be only a facade of language — although at times a very good one indeed. For when we comprehend what language is, we must conclude that no glossa, no matter how well constructed, is a specimen of human language, because it is neither internally organized nor systematically related to the world man perceives."​


A direct study of the reality of glossolalia in a church environment:
One analytical study of glossolalia was performed by an unknown person or persons. 10 One individual's ecstatic speech was tape recorded and played back separately to many individuals who sincerely and devoutly believed that they had received the gift of interpreting tongues. Their interpretations were quite inconsistent. e.g. one said that "the utterances referred to a prayer for the health of someone's children." Another interpreted the speech as "praising God for a recent and successful church, fund-raising effort." It is obvious from that study that those particular interpreters were unable to extract significant meaning out of the glossolalia. However, they were probably not conscious of that fact.

Perhaps distortion, lack of frequency range or noise in the tape recorder inhibited the interpreters' ability to understand the glossolalia. Perhaps the lack of facial expressions or body English would inhibit the interpretation. It would be useful to people's understanding of the gift of tongues if this type of test were replicated "live" in different locations, under controlled conditions by linguists, anthropologists, psychologists, sociologists, or other professionals.

This appears to be only a pilot study. It would have to be replicated by others in order to establish the accuracy of the findings.

https://www.religioustolerance.org/tongues5.htm
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
ABSTRACT

Glossolalia is a very important element in the life of Pentecostal Churches and is at the centre of their spirituality. This paper examines the gift of speaking in tongues from a psychological perspective in order to And out what psychologists say about this very important gift of the Holy Spirit. The paper begins by looking at the history of speaking in tongues in the Church from the day of Pentecost and how it has become the symbol of God's presence in the life of believers in Pentecostal Churches in Botswana today. The paper interrogates glossolalia on whether it is divine language or human language spoken by people who are emotionally charged. This research was undertaken in order to understand glossolalia better, since it is a contested area not only among Christians but also in other world religions where this phenomenon is widely manifested. The present work shows that while theologians are justified to consider glossolalia as divine language, there are indications that in some instances speaking in tongues can be a result of anxiety and human attempts to prove that the Holy Spirit is truly present in one's spiritual life. This conclusion has been reached especially in cases where it has been found that glossolalia is a learned language.
http://www.scielo.org.za/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1017-04992015000100002
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
quote:

  • People don’t tend to use sounds that aren’t in their native language. (citation) So if you’re an English speaker, you’re not going to bust out some Norwegian vowels. This rather lets the air out of the theory that individuals engaged in glossolalia are actually speaking another language. It is more like playing alphabet soup with the sounds you already know. (Although not always all the sounds you know. My instinct is that glossolalia is made up predominately of the sounds that are the most common in the person’s language.)
  • It lacks the structure of language. (citation) So one of the core ideas of linguistics, which has been supported again and again by hundreds of years of inquiry, is that there are systems and patterns underlying language use: sentences are usually constructed of some sort of verb-like thing and some sort of noun-like thing or things, and it’s usually something on the verb that tells you when and it’s usually something on the noun that tells you things like who possessed what. But these patterns don’t appear in glossolalia. Plus, of course, there’s not really any meaningful content being transmitted. (In fact, the “language” being unintelligible to others present is one of the markers that’s often used to identify glossolalia.) It may sort of smell like a duck, but it doesn’t have any feathers, won’t quack and when we tried to put it in water it just sort of dissolved, so we’ve come to conclusion that it is no, in fact, a duck.
  • It’s associated with a dissociative psychological state. (citation) Basically, this means that speakers are aware of what they’re doing, but don’t really feel like they’re the ones doing it. In glossolalia, the state seems to come and then pass on, leaving speakers relatively psychologically unaffected. Disassociation can be problematic, though; if it’s particularly extreme and long-term it can be characterized as multiple personality disorder.
  • It’s a learned behaviour. (citation) Basically, you only see glossolalia in cultures where it’s culturally expected and only in situations where it’s culturally appropriate. In fact, during her fieldwork, Dr. Goodman (see the citation) actually observed new initiates into a religious group being explicitly instructed in how to enter a dissociative state and engage in glossolalia.
https://makingnoiseandhearingthings.com/2013/11/07/the-science-of-speaking-in-tongues/
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
Paul De Lacy, Associate Professor of Linguistics at Rutgers University, speaks with Indre about the language of speaking in tongues. For more on #Miracle Detectives, visit Oprah.com.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
Objection: Since there are nearly three thousand languages in the world linguists could not have heard every language in the world, therefore if they studied a tape-recording of glossolalia they might not know wha language it was in.

Answer: A statement from William Welmers, Ph.D., in linguistics from U.C.L.A. answers this objection nicely: "That is not an entirely valid argument. Among us, we have heard many hundreds of languages. Furthermore, we have heard representative languages in virtually every group of related languages in the world. At worst we may have missed a few small groups in the interior of South America or in New Guinea. I would estimate that the chances are at least even that if a glossolalic utterance is in a known language, one of us would either recognize the language or recognize that it is similar to some language we are acquainted with." Dr. Welmers makes this challenge: "Get two recordings, one of a glossolalic utterance and the other in a real language remote from anything I have ever heard - any West Coast American Indian language would fill the bill. I'm confident that in just a few moments I could tell which is which and why I am sure of it."1
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
Objection: The language I speak in is a dead language and there is no way a language expert could detect it.

Answer: In a letter from Herbert Stahike of Georgia State University, he states, "The problem of whether a glossolalic utterance involves the speaking of a foreign language depends heavily on your definition of a foreign language. If you mean a modern spoken language or a dead language of which we have some written record, then the claim is testable, otherwise the claim is meaningless."2 Bill Siemens says, "I have heard glossolalia a number of times, but in no case did it ever vaguely resemble any of the modem or ancient languages with which I am familiar in some degree."3
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
William J. Samarin, Ph.D., from the University of Toronto, is the foremost expert on Pentecostal glossolalia. His linguistic description is based upon a large sample of glossolalia taken over a five-year period and he has heard glossolalia from Italy, Holland, Jamaica, Canada, United States and Puerto Rico. He gives this definition to glossolalia: "A meaningless but phonologically structured human utterance believed by the speaker to be a real language but bearing no systematic resemblance to any natural language, living or dead."4

Objection: The language I speak is an angelic language so a linguist couldn't analyze it or measure it by man's standard.

Answer: First of all angels speak and communicate in understandable languages5 and secondly Dr. Samarin says, "There is no difference linguistically between the verbal nonsense that the Pentecostals relate to of I Corinthians 12:10 and I Corinthians 14:2. Those who make that statement can't prove it under linguistic survey."6

The objections produced by those who practice tongue-speaking do not hold ground in the light of the facts. The results of all linguistic analysis concludes that glossolalia is not a foreign language, living or dead. Let us briefly examine the results of eight linguists:

Eugene A. Nida, Secretary of Translations for the American Bible Society and world renowned expert in linguistics, concluded from his studies that the phonemic strata indicates that the phonomes of glossolalic utterances are closely associated with the language background of the speaker's native language.7
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
Felicitas D. Goodman made phonetic analysis of glossolalia from recordings she taped for her Master's Degree in Mexico and different sections of the United States. She concludes that the glossolalia she analyzed was not productive and noncommunicative.8

James Jaquith from Washington University in his research among English speaking tongue-speakers concludes that "There is no evidence that these glossolalic utterances have been generated by constituent subcodes of any natural language other than English."9

Ernest Bryant and Daniel O'Connell of St. Louis University studied nine tapes of glossolalia taken from among their respondents. The results of their studies proved that "all glossolalic phonemes are within the normal phonemic repertoire of the native speaker of English."10 He says, "If a foreign language system were used a much greater divergence of phonemes would be expected, but the opposite is the case."

Dr. Donald Larson of Bethel College in St. Paul, Minnesota, began analyzing glossolalic samples in Toronto, Canada, in 1957. Since then he has analyzed many samples and observed glossolalic behavior in different parts of the world. His research also concludes that the phonological features of the native speaker's language carried over into his glossolalia experience.11
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
In a letter to Dr, William Welmers of U.C.L.A., I asked him, "In your studies of modern glossolalia have you detected any known language?" His reply was, "In short, absolutely not." He goes on to say that "Glossolalic utterances are consistently in important respects unlike human languages. They are characterized by a great deal of recurrences of closely similar sequences of syllables and usually employ a restricted number of different sounds." Dr. Welmers said that the same thing is true of hundreds of other utterances studied by Christian linguistics of his acquaintance.12

Dr. Samarin, by far the most thorough, says, "There is no mystery about glossolalia. Tape recorded samples are easy to obtain and to analyze. They always turn out to be the same things: strings of syllables made up of sounds taken from among all those that the speaker knows, put together more or less haphazardly but which nevertheless emerge as word-like or sentence-like units.13

In conclusion to the first part of our study, what have we learned?
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
First of all, we now know that the linguist is extremely competent and can easily answer the objections that a tongue-speaker may have. The layman is no match for the expert in linguistics, who for decades has been studying languages throughout the world. Also, we learned that when a person of the English language is speaking in tongues, he is simply using a few of his English sounds and rearranging those sounds in a non-English pattern and also he uses some syllables over and over again.

SECTION II

The Results of the National Survey

Not one linguist said that glossolalia was a foreign language, Yet may I share just one letter out of many. A letter from Bruce R. Gordon, Head of the Department of Linguistics and Foreign Languages, University of Alaska at Fairbanks, says that he remains skeptical, not only because of the linguistic material, but he also verified two cases of speaking in actual foreign languages which he proved fraudulent beyond any question, Bruce goes on to say, "In the one case, despite denials, the person involved had lived in Africa and had had direct contact with several African tongues."14 In all the chances the tongue-speaker has had to convince the language expert he has failed to do so.

Let me close with this profound statement by Dr. William Samarin:

"Although speaking in a real language is claimed by Christian Charismatists to be part of the tongue-speaking experience, they would be unable to provide a case that would stand up to scientific investigation."15​
Since the tongues movement has not convinced the language experts, I can only logically conclude that Jesus is not the author of this present-day deception.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
FOOTNOTES

1 William Welmers, Ph.D., Department of Linguistics, University of California at Los Angeles, a personal letter of November 5, 1974.

2Herbert Stahlke, Department of English, Georgia State University, in a personal letter of February 5, 1975.

3Bill Siemens, Department of Foreign Languages, West Virginia University, in a personal letter of February 10, 1975.

4William J. Samarin, Tongues of Men and Angels, New York: The Macmillan Company, 1972, p. 2.

5Larry Holton, Modern Tongue Speaking, Biblical or Ecstatic?, unpublished thesis, August 15, 1975, pp. 31-37.

6Samarin, Tongues of Men and Angels, p. 151.

7E. Mansel Pattison, "Behavioral Science Research on the Nature of Glossolalia," Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation, Vol. 20 (1968), p. 79.

8Felicitas D. Goodman, "Phonetic Analysis of Glossolalia in Four Cultural Settings," Journal for the Study of Religion, 8 (1969), p. 236.

9James Jaquith, "Toward a Typology of Formal Communicative Behavior," Anthropological Linguistics, 9 (1967), p. 5.

10Ernest Bryant and Daniel O'Connell, "A Phonemic Analysis of Nine Samples of Glossolalic Speech," Psychonomic Science, 22 (1971), p. 81.

11Dr. Donald N. Larson, Bethel College, 3900 Bethel Drive, St. Paul, Minnesota, unpublished paper.

12Dr. William Welmers, Department of Linguistics, U.C.L.A., in a personal letter of November 5, 1974.

13Samarin, op. cit., p. 227.

14Bruce R, Gordon, Department of Linguistics, University of Alaska, Fairbanks, Alaska, in a personal letter of November 21, 1974.

15William Samarin, "The Linguisticality of Glossoialia," Hartford Quarterly, 8 (1968),
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
GLOSSARY OF TERMS

GLOSSOLALIA: A technical term for speaking in tongues

GLOSSOLALIC UTTERANCE: Abnormal speech made by those who speak in tongues

PHONEME: A set of phonetically similar but slightly different sounds in a language that are heard as the same sound by native speakers

PHONEMIC STRATA: Characterized by or based on phonemes

LINGUISTIC ANALYSIS: A very careful and scientific method of studying a language
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
The Didache
“After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. If you have no living water, then baptize in other water, and if you are not able in cold, then in warm. If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Before baptism, let the one baptizing and the one to be baptized fast, as also any others who are able” (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).

Tatian the Syrian
“Then said Jesus unto them, ‘I have been given all authority in heaven and earth; and as my Father has sent me, so I also send you. Go now into all the world, and preach my gospel in all the creation; and teach all the peoples, and baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit’ [Matt. 28:18-19]” (The Diatesseron 55 [A.D. 170]).

Hippolytus
“When the one being baptized goes down into the water, the one baptizing him shall put his hand on him and speak thus: ‘Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty?’ And he that is being baptized shall say: ‘I believe.’ Then, having his hand imposed upon the head of the one to be baptized, he shall baptize him once. Then he shall say: ‘Do you believe in Christ Jesus . . . ?’ And when he says: ‘I believe,’ he is baptized again. Again shall he say: ‘Do you believe in the Holy Spirit and the holy Church and the resurrection of the flesh?’ The one being baptized then says: ‘I believe.’ And so he is baptized a third time” (The Apostolic Tradition 21 [A.D. 215]).

Tertullian
“After his resurrection he promises in a pledge to his disciples that he will send them the promise of his Father; and lastly, he commands them to baptize into the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, not into a unipersonal God” (Against Praxeas 26 [A.D. 216]).

Origen
“The Lord himself told his disciples that they should baptize all peoples in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit . . . for indeed, legitimate baptism is had only in the name of the Trinity” (Commentary on Romans 5:8 [A.D. 248]).

The Acts of Xantippe and Polyxena
“Then Probus . . . leapt into the water, saying, ‘Jesus Christ, Son of God, and everlasting God, let all my sins be taken away by this water.’ And Paul said, ‘We baptize thee in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Ghost.’ After this he made him to receive the Eucharist of Christ” (Acts of Xantippe and Polyxena 21 [A.D. 250]).

Cyprian of Carthage
“He [Jesus] commanded them to baptize the Gentiles in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. How then do some say that though a Gentile be baptized . . . never mind how or of whom, so long as it be done in the name of Jesus Christ, the remission of sins can follow—when Christ himself commands the nations to be baptized in the full and united Trinity?” (Letters 73:18 [A.D. 253]).

Eusebius of Caesarea
“We believe . . . each of these to be and to exist: the Father, truly Father, and the Son, truly Son, and the Holy Ghost, truly Holy Ghost, as also our Lord, sending forth his disciples for the preaching, said, ‘Go teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.’” (Letter to the People of His Diocese 3 [A.D. 323]).

Cyril of Jerusalem
“You were led by the hand to the holy pool of divine baptism, as Christ was carried from the cross to this sepulcher here before us [the tomb of Jesus at Jerusalem]. And each of you was asked if he believed in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. And you confessed that saving confession, and descended three times into the water, and again ascended, and in this there was suggested by a symbol the three days of Christ’s burial” (Catechetical Lectures 20:4 [A.D. 350]).

Athanasius
“And the whole faith is summed up, and secured in this, that a Trinity should ever be preserved, as we read in the Gospel, ‘Go ye and baptize all the nations in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost’ (Matt. 28:19). And entire and perfect is the number of the Trinity (On the Councils of Arminum and Seleucia 2:28 [A.D. 361]).

Basil the Great
“The Holy Spirit, too, is numbered with the Father and the Son, because he is above creation, and is ranked as we are taught by the words of the Lord in the Gospel, ‘Go and baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.’ He who, on the contrary, places the Spirit before the Son, or alleges him to be older than the Father, resists the ordinance of God, and is a stranger to the sound faith, since he fails to preserve the form of doxology which he has received, but adopts some newfangled device in order to be pleasing to men” (Letters 52:4 [A.D. 367]).

Ambrose of Milan
“Moreover, Christ himself says: ‘I and the Father are one.’ ‘One,’ said he, that there be no separation of power and nature; but again, ‘We are,’ that you may recognize Father and Son, forasmuch as the perfect Father is believed to have begotten the perfect Son, and the Father and the Son are one, not by confusion of person, but by unity of nature. We say, then, that there is one God, not two or three gods” (The Faith 1:1[9–10] [A.D. 379]).

Gregory of Nazianz
“But not yet perhaps is there formed upon your soul any writing good or bad; and you want to be written upon today. . . . I will baptize you and make you a disciple in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost; and these three have one common name, the Godhead” (Orations 40:45 [A.D. 380]).

Jerome
eeing that a man, baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, becomes a temple of the Lord, and that while the old abode is destroyed a new shrine is built for the Trinity, how can you say that sins can be remitted among the Arians without the coming of the Holy Ghost? How is a soul purged from its former stains which has not the Holy Ghost?” (Dialogue Against the Luciferians 6 [A.D. 382]).

Gregory of Nyssa
“And we, in receiving baptism . . . conceal ourselves in [the water] as the Savior did in the earth: and by doing this thrice we represent for ourselves that grace of the resurrection which was wrought in three days. And this we do, not receiving the sacrament in silence, but while there are spoken over us the names of the three sacred persons on whom we believed, in whom we also hope, from whom comes to us both the fact of our present and the fact of our future existence” (Sermon For the Day of Lights [A.D. 383]).

Augustine
“Baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost has Christ for its authority, not any man, whoever he may be; and Christ is the truth, not any man” (On Baptism, Against the Donatists 4:24 [57] [A.D. 400]).

“O Lord our God, we believe in you, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. For the truth would not say, ‘Go, baptize all nations in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,’ unless you were a Trinity” (The Trinity 15:28[51] [A.D. 408]).

Theodoret of Cyr
“And what need is there of many words, when it is possible to refute falsehood in few? We provide that those who year by year come up for holy baptism should carefully learn the faith set forth at Nicaea by the holy and blessed Fathers; and initiating them as we have been bidden, we baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, pronouncing each name singly” (Letters 145 [A.D. 444]).
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
113
Cornelius as well as his family and friends did speak in tongues upon receiving the Holy Ghost:

Acts 10:43-48
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues
, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Acts 11:12-15
12 And the spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
So true.

What about these Gentiles?


Acts 13:48-49
English Standard Version


48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. 49 And the word of the Lord was spreading throughout the whole region.

We can look at more instances where people believed and nothing is mentioned about tongues. In harmony that concludes it it only God willed.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
113
What reason is there to think that if it needs interpretation it must be the tongues of angels. There have been testimonies of people who understood the tongue as a language they knew then understood the interpretation.




Scripture says tongues are a _sign_ to them that believe not.

"And yet for that they will not hear me' is fulfilled as they tend to respond in unbelief.

Speaking in tongues edifies the speaker. The interpretation edifies the church

So it isn't as common as some churches try to make it be.
[/QUOTE]

What reason is there to think that if it needs interpretation it must be the tongues of angels. There have been testimonies of people who understood the tongue as a language they knew then understood the interpretation.
Then they were able to interpret it, my point exactly. If no one can interpret then they must keep it to themselves.


Scripture says tongues are a _sign_ to them that believe not.

"And yet for that they will not hear me' is fulfilled as they tend to respond in unbelief.

Speaking in tongues edifies the speaker. The interpretation edifies the church
Yes, but without interpretation, then it is either for yourself or a sign to unbelievers.