Speaking in Tongues

[Wansvic]

Thanks for this reply. I am only seeking truth and don't want to have any opinion other than God's truth. Pagans historically and biblically did glossolalia before Christians so in itself glossolalia isn't proof of the Holy Spirit. We are commanded to verify spirits. We are also told to judge by the fruits. Although a relatively small sample, the modern tongue speakers we know have a holier than thou (puffed up) attitude.

My wife and I since we believed, hate sin that creeps into our lives. We love all of God's Word. We love fellow members of the body of Christ (our prayer life needs improving, should pray always, and struggle to love our persecutors so still sinners...). Are you saying we don't have the Holy Spirit because we don't perform glossolalia? Are you saying modern tongue speakers we know who display pride and jealousy and little love are filled with the Holy Spirit?

We have acquaintances in Qigong who display most of the behaviors of the modern tongue speakers. See chart. We pray daily for physical and spiritual protection knowing the lion roaming around seeking who he can devour. We also thank God for all His continued blessings through Jesus Christ.

What I believe is based on what is revealed in scripture. There are many scriptures that confirm that those who received the indwelling of the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues. The following are ones that come to mind: Acts 2:1-4; 33, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7.

Also, consider something Jesus said that would apply to those who have not spontaneously received the Holy Ghost as was the case of the first Jews and Gentiles. He indicated that it is necessary for some to specifically ask God for the Holy Ghost. "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13) Jesus' instruction answers a truth many refuse to accept. Not all receive the Holy Ghost the instant they believe the gospel message. This is revealed in the Samaritan account. (Acts 8:12-18) And, Paul's question, "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" addressed to twelve individuals from Ephesus. And confirmed by their experience detailed in the ensuing record. (Acts 19:1-6)

 

[wattie]

ooops

always they forget that Paul said do not forbid speaking in tongues

they are so busy doing that very thing, they have no time to look a little further

Paul said this to the church at Corinth then.. so it applies to them in particular.

So then it comes to whether we still apply what is said to them .. to us now.

What has happened since then that would affect the sign gifts?

The apostles have died and their close associates.

God has finished inspiration of the Scriptures.

The early churches have been set up.

The sign gifts were tied to God's progressing revelation and associated with an immature Christianity.

Christianity has matured, and has a completed Word of God. There is no need for signs and wonders.

 

[VARob]

Generally speaking, tongue talkers and Charismatics don't understand the scripture. They have a lot of head knowledge and can quote scriptures backwards and forwards but they don't have a true understanding of what it means or how to understand it. The reason for this is simple: they base their understanding of scripture on their experiences. That is, they have an experience and then look for scriptures to support their experience rather than truly understanding the scripture and then basing their experiences on truth. This leads to errors one after another.

None of this is true, but thanks for your opinion.

 

[DavidTree]

“2 - It is for the edification of the individual Believer FIRST and FOREMOST.”

where do we learn this in scripture ?

“For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭14:14‬

how is it benefiting the person ? If no one knows what’s being said even the person saying it ? Sort of Paul’s point there without us having to explain anything else.

Is there any scripture to tell us the benefit ? I’m actually asking if your aware of any scriptures that tell us about the benefit to the individual in personally not aware of many explaining any of that but that doesn’t mean they aren’t there

do you know of any scriptures saying what your saying there about the gift of tongues ? I always sort of require scripture for anything to make much sense

I would say every spiritual gift is for the entire body even tongues and for it to be beneficial it needs interpretation even if the persons alone it still
Isn’t going to benefit them just babbling and not knowing what they are saying pauls Making the point not me

As far as tongues being an I dividuao
Benefit I’m not sure hate in scriptire it seems a gift meant for the edifying of the church If there’s an interpretation

“And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12:28-31‬

I’m not sure any of us actually understand the gift of tongues I know I don’t completely understand it but also the res a lot we can learn about it if we study the subject in scriptire

let’s do that brother let’s talk about what the scriptures explain about tongues

the first point it seems to appear is here

“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilæans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:4, 6-8, 11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then again

“And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:45-46‬ ‭

what can we learn out tongues from those two examples ? And the. What can we learn from the rest of the New Testament about tongues ?

that’s sort of where my Mind is brother we all have opinions and beliefs yours are respected and appreciated but what can the Bible explain about these many things we all have thoughts about ?

Hello Dear Brother,

You said: "that’s sort of where my Mind is brother we all have opinions and beliefs yours are respected and appreciated but what can the Bible explain about these many things we all have thoughts about ?"

Let us break Bread and look at the words written by the Holy Spirit thru the Apostle Paul in 1 Cor ch10

v13 - Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
v14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
*** Paul never said that his prayers in tongues is unfruitful = praying to God is not unfruitful ***
*** Paul said = verse 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him;
however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. ***
*** the Holy Spirit says: v4 "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself,"


verse 15 - What is the conclusion then? = (let us follow the conclusion of the Holy Spirit)
a.) I will pray with the spirit,
b.) I will also pray with the understanding
c.) I will sing with the spirit
d.) I will also sing with the understanding
(All of the above is approved by God)

I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.
Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?
For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.

I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

My two dear Brothers in Christ, Pilgrimshope & 2ndTimothyGroup, who the LORD loves and so do i, are you able to see what the Holy Spirit says to us in 1 Corinthians?

PLEASE examine Posts 130, 131, 133 & 134 as it is a clear example on human reasoning versus faith in the Word.

 

[VARob]

Whoa ... tongues are not a requirement

Agree.

nor proof of having received eternal life.

Disagree.

As they were , they were among gifts that not all had. Believers in a church had different gifts to compliment that parts of the local church body. So some wouldn't be speaking in tongues but would have the gift of knowledge for example.

In the church (meetings) not everyone speaks in tongues, but God wants all Christians to speak in tongues.

The evidence of having received the Holy Spirit individually is the fruits of the Spirit like patience, love, hope, brotherly kindness etc..

The unsaved can manifest those qualities. The unsaved cannot speak in tongues.

You probably are meaning something I am missing here.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Was this wishful thinking?

1 Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

This is all fine, what you've written above, but answer the questions that I have posited above. They are:

"If Tongues are necessary, what am I missing? How am I incomplete? What do those who speak in Tongues have that I do not have?"

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

When a person speaks in tongues, he KNOWS he has the gift of the Holy Spirit, that he is a child of God. Saved.

Finally . . . we have the proper and rightful answer. You nailed it.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The need for the various gifts which Paul equated to the human body was needed then, but not now. Why was there prophecy, because there was no written word to guide, and tongues to convince the nonbelievers, also because there was nothing else to do so. The various body memebers which had various gifts were necessary then. Not now. We have the bible and no longer need prophecy. The word is complete and it's the entire revelation.

The unity of the faith then is clear. It was due to the division they were already expierencing, i e.; I am of Apollos, or I am of Cephas, etc. The letter was to them to address their issues, not us and not based on some yet future event, so it must be looked at accordingly.
We no longer know in part as they did, hence the individual gifts, which were in part. We have the complete word of God and no longer need piece meal gifts.

Beautiful.

 

[VARob]

Yes, the sign gifts were associated with an immature Christianity.

Was Paul immature?

1 Cor 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

The unity of the faith is in the completed New Testament.

If that's true, why is there still so much disunity?

The process of inspiration was still going on then and now is finished. The apostles passed and early churches set up.

The church still needs the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

And yes.. when Paul says desire to speak in tongues.. it is to the church of Corinth then. Not to us now..

Why not? What changed?

unless there is nothing limiting its use, but there is with inspiration of the Scriptures finished.

That's a common belief among cessationists, that the "that which is perfect" is the completed NT.

That's nowhere in the Bible.

A key thing though is getting these gifts defined rightly. From that point, then it is clearer what has happened to them.

???

 

[Magenta]

Noted... But spiritually and doctrinally, we're the same as they were. 1 Cor 14 applies to us today, just as it applied to them.

Any particular verse?

1 Cor 14 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy.
2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one
understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to
people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue
edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of
you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is
greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

6 Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you,
unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7 Even in
the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know
what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8 Again, if the trumpet
does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak
intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be
speaking into the air. 10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of
them is without meaning. 11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am
a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12 So it is with you. Since you
are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.

13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray
with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing
with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else,
who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not
know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would
rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

20 Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be
infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21 In the Law it is written:

“With other tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak
to this people, but even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.”

22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for
unbelievers but for believers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in
tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?
24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted
of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So
they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn,
or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so
that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—
should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker
should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.
30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop.
31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.
32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33 For God is not a God of
disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be
in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask
their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

36 Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone
thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing
to you is the Lord’s command. 38 But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.

39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking
in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Whoa ... tongues are not a requirement nor proof of having received eternal life.

Jesus does not cast His Holy Pearls (gifts) upon pigs. Who are the pigs? They are those who do not belong to God, thus not one of these people received physical healings in the New Testament, for the physical healings were representative to inner healing, the Circumcision of a person's unregenerated heart. All who received physical healing in the New Testament were True Believers. Jesus healed no one that did not already receive the Circumcision of Christ. Therefore, if a person received such an incredible Gift as speaking in Tongues, they can rest assured that they are a True Child of God.

 

[VARob]

Any particular verse?

Why not the entire chapter?

 

[Magenta]

Why not the entire chapter?

I did not say it should not be the whole chapter. I was asking if you meant any particular verse.

People often leave the specific verse out of the citation when it is a numbered book such as Corinthians.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

So "no need" for "Wisdom", "Knowledge", "Discerning of Spirits", "Physical Healing", "FAITH", or "Miracles" in 2022!!!

WHO KNEW!!!

Chuckle!!!

Bob, the passage is referring to "special" knowledge, prophesy, and speaking in Tongues. If we receive "special knowledge," is this not in effect adding to the Word of God? Or, our "special" knowledge, if we are deceived, will take away from the Word.

1 Corinthians 13:8 NLT - "Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever!"

I know, for certain, that we have been given all that we need in this life, providing that the Curse of the Lord has been disassociated from our "Hearts."

2 Peter 1:3 NLT - "By his divine power, God has given us everything we need for living a godly life. We have received all of this by coming to know him, the one who called us to himself by means of his marvelous glory and excellence."

Go ahead and disagree with 1:3 above . . . I refuse to do so. Incredibly, here we are arguing over nonsense. Unbelievable.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

What I believe is based on what is revealed in scripture. There are many scriptures that confirm that those who received the indwelling of the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues. The following are ones that come to mind: Acts 2:1-4; 33, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7.

Also, consider something Jesus said that would apply to those who have not spontaneously received the Holy Ghost as was the case of the first Jews and Gentiles. He indicated that it is necessary for some to specifically ask God for the Holy Ghost. "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13) Jesus' instruction answers a truth many refuse to accept. Not all receive the Holy Ghost the instant they believe the gospel message. This is revealed in the Samaritan account. (Acts 8:12-18) And, Paul's question, "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" addressed to twelve individuals from Ephesus. And confirmed by their experience detailed in the ensuing record. (Acts 19:1-6)

I would add the story of Eldad, Medad, and Moses to your list of Scripture:

Numbers 11:26-29 NLT - "Two men, Eldad and Medad, had stayed behind in the camp. They were listed among the elders, but they had not gone out to the Tabernacle. Yet the Spirit rested upon them as well, so they prophesied there in the camp. 27 A young man ran and reported to Moses, "Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp!" 28 Joshua son of Nun, who had been Moses' assistant since his youth, protested, "Moses, my master, make them stop!" 29 But Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit upon them all!"

 

[Rosemaryx]

He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

Hi Magenta...
Genuine question...
Does the bit where John said Fire , mean that Jesus will come at the end in judgement ?...I thought that was what John meant...I know Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit , that is how we are born again through His work in us , but the fire , yes , I thought that was when our Lord comes back...xox...

 

[VARob]

I did not say it should not be the whole chapter. I was asking if you meant any particular verse.

People often leave the specific verse out of the citation when it is a numbered book such as Corinthians.

I did not mean a particular verse. I believe what Paul wrote to the Corinthian church applies to us today.

A possible exception is vv34-35. There is evidence those two scripture are not authentic. Maybe another thread?

 

[Wansvic]

The Bible says tongues are of men OR angels. On the day of Pentecost, they were the tongues of men (obviously). The significance of what happened, the outpouring of the gift of the Holy Spirit, was underscored by the fact that the languages the apostles were speaking were the languages of others present. That rarely happens, which is why when a person speaks in tongues in the church, it must be interpreted.


The mysteries are not the languages themselves, but the language the person is speaking is either a language of men or angels.

The scripture states that everyone in the upper room began speaking in unknown tongues when they were filled with the Holy Ghost. Those gathered would have all spoken the same language. So the language that resulted from their experience was definitely unknown.

Afterward a gathering of curious individuals stated they heard what was being said in their respective dialects. What was said and what was heard were not the same. The incident has somewhat puzzled me in the past. However, recently I've come to believe that it is possible that God chose the Day of Pentecost to reveal what would later become a reality for those operating in the gift of interpretation.

 

[shittim]

We are spirit, soul, and body.

Scripture tells of how God is a Spirit, and is to be worshiped in spirit and in truth.
When we pray in the Spirit, our spirit communicates with His Spirit.
When we pray NOT from our spirit, we pray from the soulish realm, missing the mark in how He proscribed that we worship Him.
It's that easy to understand.
best wishes

 

[Magenta]

Hi Magenta...
Genuine question...
Does the bit where John said Fire , mean that Jesus will come at the end in judgement ?...I thought that was what John meant...I know Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit , that is how we are born again through His work in us , but the fire , yes , I thought that was when our Lord comes back...xox...

Good day, Rosemary! I hope you are well

I don't think I'd ever thought of it that way, as pertaining to the end.

At Pentecost, tongues of fire settled on those gathered in the upper room, when the Holy Spirit of God came:

They saw tongues like flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them.

Fire, too, is often used symbolically, in regards to separating the dross from gold.

Thinking about it now, that brings to mind our trials by fire, as it were, when/where we are:

placed under extreme pressure or stress as a means of testing one's ability and expected to learn or perform.

One of my conversion experiences was like that...