Speaking in Tongues

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ResidentAlien

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Apr 21, 2021
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What always amuses me is that when it comes to healing the sick, casting out demons, or speaking in tongues it's stepping out on faith. But when it comes to something that might actually hurt someone it's "tempting God."

When someone attempts to raise the dead, cast out demons, or lay on hands they don't do it unknowingly. They don't accidently put their hands on someone and pronounce them healed. Let's see someone use this same standard and drink a glass of acid.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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To refresh everyone's memory.... this is the passage of scripture being discussed... NASB version. And I had missed Nehemiah6's mentioning of snake handling...

4 Later He appeared to the eleven disciples themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reprimanded them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen from the dead. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 The one who has believed and has been baptized will be saved; but the one who has not believed will be condemned. 17 These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
I don't think it was intended as a punch list that every believer must proceed through to be an evidence. The Lord must be in each of these and we must continually be in Him to manifest His power through us.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Hello watcher 2017. Please see below a repost of mine on the subject of the gifts which also addresses your statement regarding "the perfect is come" and "face to face".

REPOST

Very difficult subject (spiritual gifts) which is why there's so much controversy, and equally difficult to unravel and explain. But let me explain it this way.

First, look at the way Paul started his letter to the Corinthians starting at 1 Cor1:10 where he's discussing contentions and divisions in Corinth and the need for unity which sets the stage for the rest of 1 Corinthians.

Also keep in mind, this was written to them in their time, addressing their near term issues, and not to us nor considering some event in the distant future.

And too, keep in mind that the early church was a fledgling body with little to guide and hold it together, and prone to division, contention, and falling away, such as was also warned about in the Hebrew letter as well.
You have to first ask yourself and answer the question as to what is "that which is perfect"?
The aforementioned question and answer to it is found in Ephesians 4:13 wherein it discusses 'till we all come to the unity of the faith unto a perfect man, the perfect man being the perfection of the body of Christ: this being then the previous need for the miraculous manifestation of the various gifts noted in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10. We now have the bible to guide us and no longer need the piece meal parts of the body.


The "face to face" and "known as we are known" is relating to the distinction between the old testament readings, and coming to Christ via the New Testament and the comparison to the veil in reading Moses, and we now, they then, being able to look into a glass or mirror and seeing a reflection of Christ as opposed to our own image. Ref below 1 Cor 13:12 and below 2 Cor 3 primarily verse 18 to understand what "face to face" is, namely, now we can, as they could, see a reflection of Christ metaphorically when looking into a mirror or "glass" because we now have Christ as they also did then, and are part of him, as opposed to under the old covenant as noted with the Moses comparison or analogy, or when Moses is read as was stated in the scripture.

To piece it all together, you must look at the gifts and the logic in, and need for them at that time, all being necessary in the early church to edify it, as well as to grow the church such as by use of tongues, being a sign to unbelievers.

I've posted all the pertinent parts of scriptures from 1 Cor 12, 13, Galatians 3, and Ephesians 4. Look very closely at the similarity of words used and phraseology and piece those similar words and phrases together to get the true picture of their meaning as relates to the subject matter.

1 Corinthians 12:8-31
8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.14For the body is not one member, but many.


20But now are they many members, yet but one body.

27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1 Corinthians 13:8-12
8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.


2 Corinthians 3:7-18
7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.


Galatians 3:23-27
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Ephesians 4:7-16
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
I trust the Church Fathers view based on the fact a couple on the quick list I provided personally knew the Apostle John when he took over the Church at Ephesus, the one Paul started.

John had more insight than any of them and if the Church Fathers make the claim they did then it is what John taught them and assured them that is what Paul meant.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Tempting God? How in the world would you come to that conclusion? The scripture you guys are touting SAYS that drinking poison is one of the "signs" that accompany believers. A sign is used to SHOW that something is real... it is PROOF. It is not tempting God at all, it's actually PROVING God..... if you believe that scripture to be 100% scripture.
it's either true, or it's not.

Personally, I believe it was added later, after Mark wrote and finished this letter.... but I've been told that it is almost certainly original... so, if you believe it, then you should be willing to show ALL the signs mentioned. They are "signs" are they not?

and, we haven't even gotten started on poisonous snakes...
Because that portion of Scripture is not telling anyone to go and mess with a poisonous snake and get bit. It's saying what we know happened to Paul. He was just gathering fire wood and got bit. He was not playing or messing with the snake. He didn't even know the snake was in the branches. But it was, he got bit, and Mark 16 was fulfilled like Jesus said.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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What always amuses me is that when it comes to healing the sick, casting out demons, or speaking in tongues it's stepping out on faith. But when it comes to something that might actually hurt someone it's "tempting God."

When someone attempts to raise the dead, cast out demons, or lay on hands they don't do it unknowingly. They don't accidently put their hands on someone and pronounce them healed. Let's see someone use this same standard and drink a glass of acid.
It is Tempting God because it's basically the act of suicide.

Anyone with a brain knows God is not telling us to commit suicide and we will be healed.
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
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We don't hear too much about the snake handlers of Appalachia any more since some of them were bitten when they handled poisonous snakes, and some died. As for rat poison they will say "Oh! Rats!"
Poison drinking is also practiced by the "Snake handlers". Strychnine is the preferred concoction which is metered with some precision, so as not to be "TOO DEADLY". The snakes are also kept in coolers, so that they're less active. You DON'T want to be handed a Warm snake -
 

Bob-Carabbio

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Jun 24, 2020
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But God's word says it won't harm them. Why not step out on faith?
Chuckle!! The problem is that The VAST MAJORITY of what the Visible churches CALL FAITH, isn't BIBLICAL FAITH at all - just supercharged, and peer-pressure driven "HOPE" / "Presumption".

Biblical faith needs to have TWO NECESSARY ATTRIBUTES. Substance that you can put your weight on safely, and it must be a solid EVIDENCE of what you don't see.

"Belief" has no "Substance", and is "Evidence" of nothing at all.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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Being "in faith" in many circles is misinterpreted as acting with emotion, lots of singing, dancing, etc. Scripture tells us God is a Spirit, and is to be worshiped in Spirit and in truth, not emotion, which is from the soulish realm.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Scripture says we believe by the Spirit of God = they were Saved Believers = they had the FIRST Promise

What they were missing was the SECOND Promise of the Father = Baptism of the Holy Spirit

Stop removing from God's words by attempting to deny they were saved believers = Acts records the entire event.

Since God declared these men as Believers = who are you to say otherwise!!!

Furthermore, you need to pray and dig deeper in Acts.

Peace
Again, as I said, Paul's question speaks volumes. It makes the point that believing does not automatically result in the Holy Ghost taking up residence in a person's body. This is confirmed in the record of the Samaritans. They believed, yet the Holy Ghost did not come to dwell inside of them until days later. The scripture is as follows:

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women...
"Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:"



Also, in answer to your other comments: Notice in the Acts 19 account that Paul told the group they had to believe on Jesus. After being advised, "when they heard this" they were baptized in the name of Jesus. (water) And afterward the Holy Ghost came to dwell in them:

"Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."



Please provide scripture that addresses when you refer to as "First" and "Second" promises.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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What I want to know is..... just how many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin....? Really?

Paul, to Timothy... "23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. "
"Foolish and ignorant speculations?" Really?

The issues being discussed are relevant to whether a person has actually received the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. Many think all you have to do is believe and you automatically have the Holy Spirit of God. Paul's question alone says otherwise. Yet it is overlooked by many, including myself at one point.

You may want to ponder Paul's question. If you do, you do. If you don't, you don't. The choice is yours, and yours alone. May God bless!
 

Beckie

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Feb 15, 2022
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Being "in faith" in many circles is misinterpreted as acting with emotion, lots of singing, dancing, etc. Scripture tells us God is a Spirit, and is to be worshiped in Spirit and in truth, not emotion, which is from the soulish realm.
Agree ......yet love is an emotion . Where do the scriptures tell us God is not to be worship in/with emotion? Not here in John,

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Again, as I said, Paul's question speaks volumes. It makes the point that believing does not automatically result in the Holy Ghost taking up residence in a person's body. This is confirmed in the record of the Samaritans. They believed, yet the Holy Ghost did not come to dwell inside of them until days later. The scripture is as follows:

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women...
"Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:"



Also, in answer to your other comments: Notice in the Acts 19 account that Paul told the group they had to believe on Jesus. After being advised, "when they heard this" they were baptized in the name of Jesus. (water) And afterward the Holy Ghost came to dwell in them:

"Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."



Please provide scripture that addresses when you refer to as "First" and "Second" promises.
Thank you for posting these scriptures as they magnify the truth that a person is Born Again by the Spirit of God thru hearing/believing the Word/Gospel, whereas Baptism of the Holy Spirit is separate but can occur at the same time.

You just provided the scriptural evidence for the FIRST Promise of the Father and the SECOND Promise.

Thank You
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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Agree ......yet love is an emotion . Where do the scriptures tell us God is not to be worship in/with emotion? Not here in John,

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
the scripture you posted answers your question.
How is it you don't see it?
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Being "in faith" in many circles is misinterpreted as acting with emotion, lots of singing, dancing, etc. Scripture tells us God is a Spirit, and is to be worshiped in Spirit and in truth, not emotion, which is from the soulish realm.
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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That is "Loving" Him, not the practice of worship that He has proscribed that we practice.
The devil himself loves to quote scripture, please don't do the same as he.:):coffee:(y):unsure:
 
Dec 21, 2020
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When one decides to love that love is with out emotion?
Sure. If you determine to love by helping the fatherless and widows, it's simply a decision. There may be no emotion involved at all.