Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Everlasting-Grace]

I think a big issue people have is they look at sin in man's view. and fail to see sin from Gods point of view.'

Adam ate from a fruit. That one act caused the fall of mankind and the fall of this earth. Thats how much God hates sin

James said if you keep the whole law. yet just stumble in one your guilty of all.. In other words, If you stumble and bear false witness by just a little white lie, you just as guilty as if you murdered someone.

The penalty of sin is death.. Not just some sins. Not just little sins. But every sin, no matter how small.

Its hard for us as humans to imagine That a morally upright person in our view is just as a decrepit, guilty sinner as the mass murderer, Both worthy of eternal death, because all have sinned and fall short.

When God looks at Mother Theresa, Your pastor. Paul. Daniel David. Hitler, Stalin, Jeffrey Daumer, God is not going to look at a few righteous people and a few sinners. He will see them all as sinners who have earned eternity in hell. who could never earn the right to heave, because they have all sinned.

It will be only those who have been given Christs righteousness through the gift of life as given by Grace through faith that will be saved,

Not those who stop sin, or do not do these sins, or those who endure.. Everyone is guilty, And until a person becomes like the tax collector. they will remain guilty..

 

[Runningman]

this is a person who gets circumcised to get saved. Adding this work to the gospel. or, faith plus works.

people need to get context before they just pull a verse out..

It means that Christ was of value to them at first, but they sought justification through Law-keeping and then Christ became of no value to them. It certainly disproves OSAS since it’s clear that continued faith in Christ is required to remain in God’s grace under the New Covenant.

1 Cor. 15:1,2
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Not folding firmly to belief in the gospel results in believing in vain. It’s possible to believe at first and then end up believing in vain. Paul is consistent on this point.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Nope, that's an incorrect exegesis, EG. See the following passages, which speaks of the difference between hidden/unconscious sins and deliberate/willful sins. God considers as blameless those who are forgiven, filled with His Spirit, and do not commit willful sins. Else, He would not have commanded Abraham: "When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty; walk before me faithfully and be blameless." (Gen 17:1)

Blameless doesn't mean sinless, blameless means abstaining from deliberate/willful sins, especially great sins, after knowing the Truth, as the below reference in Psalm 19 from King David proves. Also, it is incorrect to say all are equally guilty or equally righteous. Righteousness begins by faith, but is made complete by good works, as James shows giving the examples of both Abraham and Rahab. As those who, with faith, do many good works for the Lord, will be rewarded more and thus have a higher place in Heaven, so those who, without faith, commit many and great sins, will have a lower place in Hell. Thus the Lord spoke of some for whom it will be "more tolerable" at the Judgment who were clearly lost etc.

Psalm 19:12-13: 12But who can discern their own errors? Forgive my hidden faults. 13Keep your servant also from willful sins; may they not rule over me. Then I will be blameless, innocent of great transgression."

Another verse on being blameless, this time in the NT in Philippians 2: "Do Everything Without Grumbling

12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

14Do everything without grumbling or arguing, 15so that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.” Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky 16as you hold firmly to the word of life. And then I will be able to boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor in vain. 17But even if I am being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and service coming from your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you. 18So you too should be glad and rejoice with me.

And 2 New Testament passages that clearly show that not all sins are equal:

1 Jn 5:

"16If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death."

And Hebrews 10:

"A Call to Persevere in Faith

19Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left"

All Christians will sin, but we should try to avoid deliberate/willful sins, especially great sins, which we can and should do, by the Power of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, Paul would not say "I can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me" in Philippians 4, and James would not say: "Resist the devil, and he will flee from you". We can and should do these things, and we are empowered to do them by the Holy Spirit within us. In this way, as Paul says above, by doing everything without complaining and grumbling, but accepting God's Will in whatever happens to us, in our daily life's crosses, trials etc, we "continue to work out our salvation ... so that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.” Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky 16as you hold firmly to the word of life. And then I will be able to boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor in vain." (reference above).

God Bless.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It means that Christ was of value to them at first, but they sought justification through Law-keeping and then Christ became of no value to them. It certainly disproves OSAS since it’s clear that continued faith in Christ is required to remain in God’s grace under the New Covenant.

1 Cor. 15:1,2
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Not folding firmly to belief in the gospel results in believing in vain. It’s possible to believe at first and then end up believing in vain. Paul is consistent on this point.

no,

if they had true faith in Christ and the gospel they would not even fathom they need works.. and would never even think they needed to be circumcized too.. They were decieved because they did not have true faith to begin with

 

[ResidentAlien]

no,

if they had true faith in Christ and the gospel they would not even fathom they need works.. and would never even think they needed to be circumcized too.. They were decieved because they did not have true faith to begin with

How do you know that, because they fell away from grace? You'll have to do better than that. You might as well say you know the sky is blue because it's the sky. Circular reasoning means nothing.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

How do you know that, because they fell away from grace? You'll have to do better than that. You might as well say you know the sky is blue because it's the sky. Circular reasoning means nothing.

How do I know that?

If you trust something so much you base your eternity on it you are no so easily ensared to change your mind so quickly and think you have to do it another way.

we do what our heart tells us to do. If we really trust in the law. We may try this Christianity thing for awhile. But it will not last.. Thats why we so easily return to the law. as a dog returns to his vomit.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Today, Christianity is weak because there is not enough emphasis on holiness. We rarely hear sermons on holiness, yet the Bible says, to believing Christians in Hebrews: "Strive for ... the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."

This goes together with that saying of Our Lord in the Gospel: "Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God."

In fact, all the beautitudes show us what manner of life brings blessings, in this life, and the next and what does not.

Mat 5, Sermon on the Mount:

The Beatitudes

He said:

3“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

Hence, those who are not poor in spirit, but selfish and greedy etc, will not blessed. And so on with all the beatitudes.

God Bless.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Today, Christianity is weak because there is not enough emphasis on holiness. We rarely hear sermons on holiness, yet the Bible says, to believing Christians in Hebrews: "Strive for ... the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."

This goes together with that saying of Our Lord in the Gospel: "Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God."

In fact, all the beautitudes show us what manner of life brings blessings, in this life, and the next and what does not.

Mat 5, Sermon on the Mount:

The Beatitudes

He said:

3“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

Hence, those who are not poor in spirit, but selfish and greedy etc, will not blessed. And so on with all the beatitudes.

God Bless.

A person who has true saving faith will desire to work to become like christ.

The issue is not the church per say. the issue is the gospel people are trying to preach or the false church .

if someone is working or obeying in order to be saved. they have the focus on self not God.

When we see someone who is truly saved we will by defenition and power live to be like christ. because thats their new nature.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Nope. The Lord said in the Gospel of St. Matthew: "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (Mat 5:16) and again in the Gospel of St. John: "8This is to My Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, proving yourselves to be My disciples." (Jn 15:8)

Those who work less glorify God less. Those who work more, with faith in Christ, glorify God more, and will be rewarded more. According to your opinion, those who faithfully follow Rom 2:6-7 are "focused on self not God". I disagree. They are focused on glorifying God, by living lives of holiness and good works which "glorify your Father in Heaven" as the Lord said.

Rom 2:6-7:

"6God “will repay each one according to his deeds(works)". 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life"

In Christ,
Xavier.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Perhaps there are exceptions for some motives.
Notwithstanding, there is the potential to be "severed from Christ", to "have fallen away from grace", and for "Christ will be of no value to you at all" under certain circumstances for believers.

Precious friend, 1) "severed from Christ" = no such Scripture. Close is:

Rom_9:3
"For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ​

for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh"​

​

2)

Gal_5:4​

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of​

you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from Grace."​

​

3) These cannot refer to Eternal Condemnation, since, for the
true believer, the "Deliverance from ↑ That ↑" is, As God
Inspired Paul to teach us, Under Grace, in the PAST Tense! *:

​

"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should​

not trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead:​

​

Who DeliverED us from so great a death, * and​

​

Doth Deliver:​

​

in Whom we trust that He Will Yet Deliver us"​

(2 Corinthians 1:9-10)​

Thus, when we "fall from Grace, and Christ Is Of no effect"
Must then refer to the PRESENT Tense ("Doth Deliver") when
we could Either "grieve or quench The (Eternally) Indwelling
Spirit Of God" (Eph 4:30; 1Th 5:19), Correct?

More study is here:

Grace, Peace, And JOY!...

*
Scripturally Confirmed By 12 Dozen Passages:

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance

 

[Runningman]

Precious friend, 1) "severed from Christ" = no such Scripture. Close is:

Rom_9:3​

"For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ​

for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh"​

​

2)

Gal_5:4​

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of​

you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from Grace."​

​

3) These cannot refer to Eternal Condemnation, since, for the
true believer, the "Deliverance from ↑ That ↑" is, As God
Inspired Paul to teach us, Under Grace, in the PAST Tense! *:

​

"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should​

not trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead:​

​

Who DeliverED us from so great a death, * and​

​

Doth Deliver:​

​

in Whom we trust that He Will Yet Deliver us"​

(2 Corinthians 1:9-10)​

Thus, when we "fall from Grace, and Christ Is Of no effect"
Must then refer to the PRESENT Tense ("Doth Deliver") when
we could Either "grieve or quench The (Eternally) Indwelling
Spirit Of God" (Eph 4:30; 1Th 5:19), Correct?

More study is here:

Grace, Peace, And JOY!...

*

In this case, either someone has God’s grace or they don’t. There is no middle ground here.

To have “fallen from grace” or to be severed from Christ can only mean that sins have began to be counted against them again.

Are you aware of what your requirements are for the New Covenant?

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

Precious friend, 1) "severed from Christ" = no such Scripture. Close is:

Rom_9:3​

"For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ​

for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh"​

​

2)

Gal_5:4​

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of​

you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from Grace."​

​

3) These cannot refer to Eternal Condemnation, since, for the
true believer, the "Deliverance from ↑ That ↑" is, As God
Inspired Paul to teach us, Under Grace, in the PAST Tense! *:

​

"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should​

not trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead:​

​

Who DeliverED us from so great a death, * and​

​

Doth Deliver:​

​

in Whom we trust that He Will Yet Deliver us"​

(2 Corinthians 1:9-10)​

Thus, when we "fall from Grace, and Christ Is Of no effect"
Must then refer to the PRESENT Tense ("Doth Deliver") when
we could Either "grieve or quench The (Eternally) Indwelling
Spirit Of God" (Eph 4:30; 1Th 5:19), Correct?

More study is here:

Grace, Peace, And JOY!...

*
Scripturally Confirmed By 12 Dozen Passages:

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance

https://biblehub.com/galatians/5.htm

BSB

have been severed
κατηργήθητε (katērgēthēte)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Passive - 2nd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 2673: From kata and argeo; to be entirely idle, literally or figuratively.

https://biblehub.com/strongs/galatians/5-4.htm

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

Precious friend, 1) "severed from Christ" = no such Scripture. Close is:

Rom_9:3​

"For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ​

for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh"​

​

2)

Gal_5:4​

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of​

you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from Grace."​

​

3) These cannot refer to Eternal Condemnation, since, for the
true believer, the "Deliverance from ↑ That ↑" is, As God
Inspired Paul to teach us, Under Grace, in the PAST Tense! *:

​

"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should​

not trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead:​

​

Who DeliverED us from so great a death, * and​

​

Doth Deliver:​

​

in Whom we trust that He Will Yet Deliver us"​

(2 Corinthians 1:9-10)​

Thus, when we "fall from Grace, and Christ Is Of no effect"
Must then refer to the PRESENT Tense ("Doth Deliver") when
we could Either "grieve or quench The (Eternally) Indwelling
Spirit Of God" (Eph 4:30; 1Th 5:19), Correct?

More study is here:

Grace, Peace, And JOY!...

*
Scripturally Confirmed By 12 Dozen Passages:

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance

And Paul seems to be referring to some hardships encountered in the province of Asia. 2 Corinthians 1:8-11

"We do not want you to be unaware, brothers, of the hardships we encountered in the province of Asia. We were under a burden far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life. Indeed, we felt we were under the sentence of death, in order that we would not trust in ourselves, but in God, who raises the dead.

He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and He will deliver us. In Him we have placed our hope that He will yet again deliver us, as you help us by your prayers. Then many will give thanks on our behalf for the favor shown us in answer to their prayers"

 

[justpassinthrough]

Those that don’t abide in Him are the unsaved lost.

You contradicted yourself twice in one breath.


How does someone who is unsaved come to be “in Christ” ?

Abide means remain.

A person must be “in Christ” in the first place, to be able to “remain” in Him.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


The branch is “in” the Vine, and partaking of the life of the Vine.




JLB

 

[justpassinthrough]

You think I’m a Calvinist? 🤣🤣🤣

I think you are teaching the false doctrine of OSAS.

 

[Snacks]

I think you are teaching the false doctrine of OSAS.

If you believe you have to work for your salvation then I fear you don’t understand the concept of grace.

 

[ResidentAlien]

If you believe you have to work for your salvation then I fear you don’t understand the concept of grace.

This is a dead argument. OSAS and grace are two different things. You can believe in salvation by grace through faith and also believe it's possible to fall from grace and forfeit salvation.

 

[PennEd]

The branch is “in” the Vine, and partaking of the life of the Vine.

Complete fabrication by you.

READ, what Jesus is saying. NOT what fits your works salvation doctrine.

The True Vine
15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

Every branch IN CHRIST, that does not produce fruit He takes AWAY. Or as the Greek says, lifts up or removes. It does NOT say that those who are in Him are thrown into the fire. Jesus SPECIFICALLY differentiates those that are in Him, but produce no fruit, with those that are NOT in Him.

6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

These are people that ARE NOT IN JESUS!

Take the works salvation blinders off and read it for what it says.

 

[notmyown]

I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never turn away from doing good to them, and I will put My fear in their hearts, so that they will never turn away from Me. Yes, I will rejoice in doing them good, and I will faithfully plant them in this land with all My heart and with all My soul. (Jer 32: 40-41)

God is the One Who is faithful. it is He Who keeps His promises.
if you're united to Christ, you're kept by the power of God, not your own power.
we don't really have any power, you see. we're totally dependent on the Lord for everything.

soli Deo gloria!

 

[Snacks]

You can believe in salvation by grace through faith and also believe it's possible to fall from grace and forfeit salvation.

Of course you can believe it. It seems reasonable from the human point of view that people can forfeit their salvation, but I lean more towards a different point of view, and that being that God’s ways are not our ways.