HOW DO ATHEISTS/AGNOSTICS/NON-BELIEVERS DETERMINE RIGHT FROM WRONG?????

[oyster67]

It does trouble me that some present Christianity as an optional worldview. As if it were only one way among many. It is now illegal to inform the masses that they are going to Hell if they do not surrender to the Jesus of Christianity. I suppose it always has been so. Time to count the cost and tell the Truth.

Mark 8:38
“Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.”

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

It would be interesting to discuss this "normal".

We know that everyone is a sinner and I'm not referring to only choosing to teach believers.
What I mean by normal is the average person who, in spite of flaws and sins, I can still work with. They have a modicum of basic morality. They are not expressing or acting on sociopathic characteristics.
I am selective in who is allowed to take my classes. New students are given a period of free classes. This allows them decide if they want to make a commitment and me a chance to get acquainted. Most schools just want their money and will take in anyone off the street, including gang members. I work for God and won't teach the bad guys.

 

[Blade]

Sometimes when I'm faced with an atheist, I am tempted to invite him to the greatest gourmet dinner that one could ever serve, and when we have finished eating that magnificent dinner, to ask him if he believes there's a cook.“ — Ronald Reagan

 

[Aaron56]

Consider the following:

This is John chapter 16. Jesus is addressing His disciples before His crucifixion.

“But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged."

This has been fulfilled: Jesus left the earth and He sent the Holy Spirit to the earth.

Now, the Spirit is doing three things to the world: convicting them of sin, of righteousness, and of judgement.

Conviction of sin is the awareness that the distance between man and God is insurmountable.
Conviction of righteousness is the awareness that a standard of life is found in Christ alone.
Conviction of judgement is the awareness that the ways of the world, and its unseen ruler, are corrupt beyond measure.

Notice that the conviction of sin is because "they do not believe in Me (meaning "Jesus")". Belief is a lifestyle, not a cognitive exercise. Here, in John chapter 16, the Holy Spirit has been sent to convict the world, to convince them without wavering, that their standard of life falls well short of the divine standard of Christ. They are made internally aware of a divine standard by the Holy Spirit.

Then, they are made aware that a righteousness has been revealed and finally, that the order of the world and its leader are corrupt.

In conclusion: there are no people who do not know God exists. There are only two types of people in the earth: those who do not obey God and those who obey God.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

It would be interesting to discuss this "normal".

It's not always as easy as this to tell.
😄

 

[studentoftheword]

So, back to my original question; if I'm atheist.....etc.... how do I determine my 'moral code of ethics'. And without a God, why should there be any moral code at all?

This is my view

Are you saying atheist are without a conscience ===== we are all born away from God but we are all born with a conscience -----and this scripture I posted says that our conscience bears witness to knowing what is right and what is wrong -----

Are you saying that an atheist doesn't know it is wrong to murder someone -------are you saying an atheist doesn't know that it is wrong to tell a lie ------just because an atheist doesn't believe in any God doesn't mean they don't have a moral compass to tell them what is right and wrong -----for me that makes no sense ----they have a God GIVEN Conscience -----and God given emotional feelings of Guilt and Shame when they do wrong ---

Atheist is just a man made term ----all humans were made by God and all humans were given a mind ---a conscience and emotions -----

this says below ---
Sometimes their thoughts tell them that they have done wrong, and this makes them guilty. And sometimes their thoughts tell them that they have done right, and this makes them not guilty.

Romans 2:15

Easy-to-Read Version
15 They show that in their hearts they know what is right and wrong, the same as the law commands, and their consciences agree. Sometimes their thoughts tell them that they have done wrong, and this makes them guilty. And sometimes their thoughts tell them that they have done right, and this makes them not guilty.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

All believers, in any creed, have references as to what is right and wrong. For instance, Jews and Christians have the Judeo/Christian values. We get these values from the teaching from Scritpure and the Church.

So, if I'm an atheist/agnostic/non-believer/humanist/secularist, how do I determine my moral code, right from wrong? If life on earth is just a random coincidence, how could there be any right or wrong and what would it matter?

Its subjective or a social construct or a combination of the two.

 

[Evmur]

All believers, in any creed, have references as to what is right and wrong. For instance, Jews and Christians have the Judeo/Christian values. We get these values from the teaching from Scritpure and the Church.

So, if I'm an atheist/agnostic/non-believer/humanist/secularist, how do I determine my moral code, right from wrong? If life on earth is just a random coincidence, how could there be any right or wrong and what would it matter?

but their position is wrong. they are in the mean for having that mind.

 

[Thusiserve]

Psalm 19
1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of His hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.
3 There is no speech or language where
thier voice is not heard.
4 Thier voice goes out into all the earth,
thier words to the ends of the world.

Ecclesiastes 3
11... He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

 

[studentoftheword]

Atheist are just unbelievers ---same as the Gentiles were until they were grafted in -----

:https://www.bibleref.com/Romans/2/Romans-2-14.html

What does Romans 2:14 mean? [⇑ See verse text ⇑]

Some translations put parentheses around Romans 2:14–15, showing that Paul might be making a related side point with these two verses. In the previous verse, Paul argued that Jewish people living under the law did not become righteous before God merely by hearing the Law read. They had to keep the law, and keep it perfectly, in order to be truly righteous.

Speaking of obeying the law, Paul mentions that some non-Jewish people—Gentiles—end up keeping parts of the law "by nature," even though they are not required to do so by God. In other words, the human conscience sometimes prompts people to "do the right thing" even without having a written law to tell them to do it.

This parallels Paul's point from earlier in this letter that God makes certain things obvious to all people (Romans 1:18–20).

In this way, those Gentiles allow their consciences to become a kind of law for them to follow. They might not even know what is included in the written books of the Law given to the Israelites.

Notice that in this and the following verse, Paul is not suggesting that a Gentile who lives by his conscience will be declared righteous by God. His point, as implied here, is only that such a person is following some kind of minimum standard for right and wrong.

 

[AndrewMorgan]

All believers, in any creed, have references as to what is right and wrong. For instance, Jews and Christians have the Judeo/Christian values. We get these values from the teaching from Scritpure and the Church.

So, if I'm an atheist/agnostic/non-believer/humanist/secularist, how do I determine my moral code, right from wrong? If life on earth is just a random coincidence, how could there be any right or wrong and what would it matter?

Are you indirectly saying, if you didn't believe in God, you would not "know right from wrong" and set off on a life of self-centered, uncaring anarchy? I'm asking you the same question. How did I not do the same thing? I was not brought up in a religious home. I don't know if I saw the inside of a Bible 'til I was about 26.
How did I manage this?!

 

[AndrewMorgan]

Yeah so according to atheists this is just fair game. It’s about societal popularity. Hitler, Stalin, nuclear bomb in Japan, all fair game.
‘And on a personal level they say that “I don’t want to hurt anybody but I don’t accept any views other than mine’.
So this means they live in their head detached from reality.

So atheists are immoral anarchists, are they? Going around killing, stealing, etc.? I don't think so! I was not brought up in a religious home. I didn't have biblical direction. I didn't do these things. How on Earth did I manage this?!
I suspect the idea of not judging others without examining oneself is relevant here!

 

[Eli1]

So atheists are immoral anarchists, are they? Going around killing, stealing, etc.? I don't think so! I was not brought up in a religious home. I didn't have biblical direction. I didn't do these things. How on Earth did I manage this?!
I suspect the idea of not judging others without examining oneself is relevant here!

Andrew I’d like to discuss this further with you but you’re rarely here.

I did not say, not do I believe that atheists are immoral. In fact there are many Christians who are immoral.
This is not a discussion about people though, it’s a discussion about ideologies.

The atheist ideology says that we are a bunch of cells. So you are meaningless. I am meaningless. We are all meaningless.
This is why when we discuss things like wars or tragedies, my point to them is that they don’t have any moral grounds to say anything because we all live in our heads according to them.

Take care Morgan and happy new year 2023.

 

[AndrewMorgan]

Andrew I’d like to discuss this further with you but you’re rarely here.

I did not say, not do I believe that atheists are immoral. In fact there are many Christians who are immoral.
This is not a discussion about people though, it’s a discussion about ideologies.

The atheist ideology says that we are a bunch of cells. So you are meaningless. I am meaningless. We are all meaningless.
This is why when we discuss things like wars or tragedies, my point to them is that they don’t have any moral grounds to say anything because we all live in our heads according to them.

Take care Morgan and happy new year 2023.

...and happiness to you in the future.
My point entirely stands. You say, according to "atheist ideology", we are "a meaningless bunch of cells"/ "without any moral grounds". I find this odious. However we got here, we are thoughtful human beings - WITH meaning in our lives.
Do you think atheists consider their lives meaningless?! I didn't see the inside of a Bible 'til I was about 26. I certainly didn't consider my life meaningless until then.
I suspect there's a measure of invalidly judging others here.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

All believers, in any creed, have references as to what is right and wrong. For instance, Jews and Christians have the Judeo/Christian values. We get these values from the teaching from Scritpure and the Church.

So, if I'm an atheist/agnostic/non-believer/humanist/secularist, how do I determine my moral code, right from wrong? If life on earth is just a random coincidence, how could there be any right or wrong and what would it matter?

When God quickens someone to the new spiritual life, he exchanges the unregenerate stony heart with a new fleshy heart, whos heart can be pricked to feel guilt of breaking a spiritual law. Acts 2:37 & Acts 7:54 gives the difference responses in these two hearts, when being blamed in crucifying Christ.

 

[Eli1]

...and happiness to you in the future.
My point entirely stands. You say, according to "atheist ideology", we are "a meaningless bunch of cells"/ "without any moral grounds". I find this odious. However we got here, we are thoughtful human beings - WITH meaning in our lives.
Do you think atheists consider their lives meaningless?! I didn't see the inside of a Bible 'til I was about 26. I certainly didn't consider my life meaningless until then.
I suspect there's a measure of invalidly judging others here.

Let’s make this a bit simpler.

Atheism says that we are all a bunch of cells so ultimately we do what we desire in our heads (just a by-product of evolution).

Christianity says that before I do something I need to check myself with Jesus. Would Jesus approve of it?

This is the discussion.
Not about personal experiences. Because you and many other atheists are sometimes better people than Christians. I know this because I hang out with them.
But again, this is not about personal qualities, it’s about an ideology which they believe and try to defend.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

We have a conscience -----the Gentiles were never under the God's Laws ------ but they knew right from wrong as their conscience bears witness to that

The Gentiles were born again children of God, evidenced by the new law having been written on their fleshy hearts that had replaced their heart of stone, before they were quickened, by God, to that new spiritual life.

 

[AndrewMorgan]

Let’s make this a bit simpler.

Atheism says that we are all a bunch of cells so ultimately we do what we desire in our heads (just a by-product of evolution).

Christianity says that before I do something I need to check myself with Jesus. Would Jesus approve of it?

This is the discussion.
Not about personal experiences. Because you and many other atheists are sometimes better people than Christians. I know this because I hang out with them.
But again, this is not about personal qualities, it’s about an ideology which they believe and try to defend.

First - you seem to think I'm an atheist. I don't know how you got to that. I reiterate - although many atheists may believe as you say - many may well be mentally ill - atheists on the whole do NOT believe this - or "try to defend it".

 

[AndrewMorgan]

May I ask - Were you born into the Church or did you find Christianity later in life? If the latter, is the way you describe an atheist's thoughts the way you used to think?

 

[Eli1]

Sigh. Andrew I see that you now don’t want to discuss the ideology.
Okay. Let me say a few things since you’re so curious.

I was an atheist until I was 15.
Atheists sometimes are better than Christians in deeds because they show compassion, empathy, no judgment and in rare cases even humility. I hang out with many atheists at work. A few are very close friends of mine.

With that being said, their ideology is wrong. I tell them this all the time while we drink beer together on fridays.

So? Would you like to discuss the ideology or no?