Struggling reading through romans 8 & 9 and Calvinism.

[ForestGreenCook]

Im not good with institutional labels so I’m nOt positive what a dispensationalist is I apologize

But yes his sacrifice is sufficient to cover all sin for all time , he just doesn’t force people to accept his covenant word and blood he gives us the choice by sending the gospel out among us all

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.( because it can save them all )

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he died for us all and he spoke to us all

If you interpret the salvation (deliverance) right, belief, baptism, accepting, confessing, repenting, following God's commandments, etc, are not the cause of eternal inheritance.

All of these efforts of, born again, children of God, are necessary to follow God's instructions as to live an abundant, and joyful life here on earth, as we fellowship with one another, and with God.

"being damned" is being judged worthy of punishment, which brings about God's chastenings, but it does not cause a child of God to lose their eternal inheritance.

Understanding the gospel, also, does not cause our eternal inheritance, but it does cause his children, if they follow his instructions in the gospel, to enjoy that good and joyful life as they sojourn here on earth.

The inspired words of God are not written to the natural man, instructing him how to get delivered eternally. The natural man cannot discern the inspired spiritual words of God. They are written to God's born again children, instructing them how to live their lives as they sojourn here on earth, also telling them how that they already have the promise of their eternal inheritance.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Don't think that's possible. The knowledge is exclusively the knowledge of salvation, given freely with/by the remission of sin through Christ, but is only to those whom He had so chosen for it ("unto his people").

[Luk 1:77 KJV]
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

[1Co 2:12-14 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned

Hang in there. You are right on, in upholding the doctrine that Jesus taught. It is an ongoing thing to defend the doctrine of Jesus against false doctrines, but we are instructed to teach, and preach his doctrine to the born again, lost sheep of the house of Israel. in hopes of saving (delivering) them from their false doctrines.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Um , you saying if we have no relationship with god were still his hiers his children ? Comon man your working too hard to reject everything by explaining it all away with ridiculous logic

I see that you do not understand the example Jesus gave us about a father that had two sons, one of them taking his inheritance (money) leaving his home, and squandering it away, then repenting to his father and coming back home.

The son was always his son, just a disobedient one, he had no relationship with his father, until he repented and came back home.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God

"The kingdom of Christ" is one of many names that Christ's church is called

The discipline of the visible church, "the remnant of the house of Israel" will not accept the invisible church "disobedient house of Israel", as members of the visible church, "the remnant of the house of Israel", but they will be accepted, along with the "remnant of the house of Israel" into their inheritance of heaven.

Ezk 10, especially verse 10, talks about "a wheel within a wheel", whitch to my understanding, is referring to "the visible," and " the "invisible church" that Jesus established. "The invisible church", being "the house of Israel", and "the visible church" being "the remnant of the house of Israel" (Zeph 3:11-13).

I, also, believe this harmonizes with Matt 7:13-14 - The wide gate being "the invisible church", that leads to destruction of preaching false doctrines, "(The house of Israel)", and the straight gate, being "the remnant of the house of Israel". which leads to that abundant, and joyful life, as they sojourn here on earth.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Death=separation. When we commit a sin, we separate ourselves from our fellowship with God, temporary, until we repent, which does not separate us from our eternal inheritance, which was promised to us on the cross.


Um , you saying if we have no relationship with god were still his hiers his children ? Comon man your working too hard to reject everything by explaining it all away with ridiculous logic

aid you were able to hear Paul’s letters you would know what disqualifies from the inheritance he spoke of in the same letter

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your telling me that the children of disobedience they are going to inherit salvation along with Gods children ? Who apparently if you make a mistake bekng his child lol he disowns you until you perfect yourself again ? It’s not as if Paul was unclear right he said it repeatedly

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-

of your going to advocate that there’s another seperate inheritance maybe ? That’s pretty odd because the children are the only hiers to the father who gives all his possessions to them he’s the king and his children inherit his kingdom

You need to read a whole epistle and not selectively find grace verses out of context omitting anything that you don’t want to hear and exalting only what you think already from reading too many “gospel of grace “ books

Gods kingdom is the eternal creation ahead of we don’t inherit the kingdom we aren’t going to be too pleased with what we do receive for inheritance

a really all you need to do is let it all in but some folks won’t do that we’re all free to choose

I am sorry, but your belief of the scriptures have too many contradicting scriptures, and from my own experience, if you do not deny yourself (your own entelect), Your works. The Holy Spirit within you will not reveal the true meaning of the scriptures to you, else you would take credit, by your own entelet, for the understanding of them.

On, "the gospel of grace" books, As I have mentioned before, I do not reference any other man's writings, including Calvin's. I know that the scriptures prove themselves, and they are the only source of my learning, along with the Greek concordance.

I do not know what "the books of grace" are, but I do know that God gave mankind the freedom to choose how he want to live his life here on earth, but his eternal inheritance is given by the sovereign grace of God, without man's help by his works.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

“To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,”

lol yeah that’s what John a baptist did which is who that verse is speaking of

“And he asked for a writing table, and wrote, saying, His name is John. And they marvelled all. And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: For thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; To give knowledge of salvation unto his people By the remission of their sins,”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:63, 67, 76-77‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you want to see thy being foretold look at Malachi 3 and hen mark 1

But your actually showing just what I was saying your ignoring what Jesus said will save you and trying to make it something else coming from your own mind you have to hear (accept and need as if he’s your lord )Jesus to be saved but it is a choice and your free to choose

As I have said many times; The inspired words of God do not give instructions on how to obtain eternal inheritance, but they do give knowledge to his people, as to how his Son gave them an eternal inheritance by redeeming them from their sins, on the cross.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

No - it is speaking of Christ. It is saying that John would prepare the way for Christ who would give
the knowledge of salvation to His people by the forgiveness of their sin. You don't believe that it is Christ who alone brought forgiveness of sin? How did you ever misunderstand that verse so badly - that's scary? You should read more closely next time.



So..... you don't believe that Christ is the Saviour? You instead believe that Christ told us that we each are to be our own saviour?
Really?

Keep up the good fight in defending the wonderful doctrine of Jesus.

 

[rogerg]

I see that you do not understand the example Jesus gave us about a father that had two sons, one of them taking his inheritance (money) leaving his home, and squandering it away, then repenting to his father and coming back home.
The son was always his son, just a disobedient one, he had no relationship with his father, until he repented and came back home.

True repentance is a gift given freely of God to those whom He has chosen. In the spiritual sense, it is in repenting from dead works unto
a belief/trust completely in Christ alone as Saviour. We, of ourselves, cannot do so.

[Heb 6:1 KJV]
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

[2Co 7:10 KJV]
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
[2Ti 2:25 KJV]
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

 

[oyster67]

Im not good with institutional labels so I’m nOt positive what a dispensationalist is I apologize

But yes his sacrifice is sufficient to cover all sin for all time , he just doesn’t force people to accept his covenant word and blood he gives us the choice by sending the gospel out among us all

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.( because it can save them all )

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he died for us all and he spoke to us all

Amen. Some Church history:

Calvinism came in during the time of the protestant reformation and virtually destroyed evangelism in many sectors. They said, "Why preach to the lost if people where already preselected for heaven or hell anyway?" The Calvinists turned a blind eye to the Great Commision set forth by Jesus.

Fortunately, the time of the Great Awakening arrived, and great missionary outreach and evangelism followed. The Church finally began fulfilling the Great Commision again and even the Baptist (who still hold Calvinist doctrine) got in on it.

Calvinism is a manmade doctrine that is now protected by modern liberalism that critiques and selects from the Bible rather than simply taking it as God's inspired word and reverently obeying it.

If you are seeking the truth, then let it be known that Christ died for all... and that means you. He is knocking at you hearts door right now.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”

 

[rogerg]

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Which world do you think that would be - this current world, or the one to come?

[2Pe 3:10, 12 KJV]
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. ...

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

[Mar 10:30 KJV]
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

[1Jo 2:15 KJV]
15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

[Luk 18:30 KJV]
30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

[Heb 6:5 KJV]
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

[Jhn 18:36 KJV]
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Amen. Some Church history:

Calvinism came in during the time of the protestant reformation and virtually destroyed evangelism in many sectors. They said, "Why preach to the lost if people where already preselected for heaven or hell anyway?" The Calvinists turned a blind eye to the Great Commision set forth by Jesus.

Fortunately, the time of the Great Awakening arrived, and great missionary outreach and evangelism followed. The Church finally began fulfilling the Great Commision again and even the Baptist (who still hold Calvinist doctrine) got in on it.

Calvinism is a manmade doctrine that is now protected by modern liberalism that critiques and selects from the Bible rather than simply taking it as God's inspired word and reverently obeying it.

If you are seeking the truth, then let it be known that Christ died for all... and that means you. He is knocking at you hearts door right now.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”

thank you dear brother that’s very informative of things I had no clue about , coming from you ot Carrie’s some weight with me I appreciate you taking the time for the info

 

[rogerg]

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Sorry, my prior post is incomplete without John 3:17. I should have included it too for context.

[Jhn 3:17 KJV]
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[oyster67]

oyster67 said:
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Which world do you think that would be - this current world, or the one to come?

The offer of salvation is obviously for this time and age. The time to choose is now. (Not after it is too late.)

 

[oyster67]

Sorry, my prior post is incomplete without John 3:17. I should have included it too for context.

[Jhn 3:17 KJV]
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

It is true that Christ's Atonement did prepare the way for the redemption of all creation in the future, but the time for the redemption of men's souls is now.

 

[rogerg]

The offer of salvation is obviously for this time and age. The time to choose is now. (Not after it is too late.)

Thanks, appreciate the reply.

Okay, but if God loved this world so that He gave His son to save it, yet is planning to destroy it, then can He actually love it? Wouldn't it equate to that He either can't save that which He loves, or can't destroy that which He hates?

 

[oyster67]

Thanks, appreciate the reply.

Okay, but if God loved this world so that He gave His son to save it, yet is planning to destroy it, then can He actually love it? Wouldn't it equate to that He either can't save that which He loves, or can't destroy that which He hates?

Christ shed His blood primarily for the redemption of men's souls. Rocks and trees? Not so much.

When John 3:16 says God loves the world, the context is mankind. Remember the Sunday School diddy that goes like...

Jesus loves the little children,
All the children of the world.
Red, brown, yellow, black and blue,
He loves me and even you...

Having said that, all of creation will be redeemed in the future. The world was initially good in God's sight, and it will be returned to that state in the future.


Romans 8:22
“For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.”

Jesus paid a price that was high enough to redeem all of creation. The time it is to be applied to men's souls is now. The time for it to be applied to their bodies is the Rapture. The time for it to be applied to the rest of creation is Christ's second coming.

It is only after the 1000 years of Millennial reign that the New Heaven and New Earth will appear.

Revelation 21:1
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”

 

[Cameron143]

Christ shed His blood primarily for the redemption of men's souls. Rocks and trees? Not so much.

When John 3:16 says God loves the world, the context is mankind. Remember the Sunday School diddy that goes like...

Jesus loves the little children,
All the children of the world.
Red, brown, yellow, black and blue,
He loves me and even you...

Having said that, all of creation will be redeemed in the future. The world was initially good in God's sight, and it will be returned to that state in the future.


Romans 8:22
“For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.”

Jesus paid a price that was high enough to redeem all of creation. The time it is to be applied to men's souls is now. The time for it to be applied to their bodies is the Rapture. The time for it to be applied to the rest of creation is Christ's second coming.

It is only after the 1000 years of Millennial reign that the New Heaven and New Earth will appear.

Revelation 21:1
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”

I am so glad the blue made it. They are often excluded.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Christ shed His blood primarily for the redemption of men's souls. Rocks and trees? Not so much.

When John 3:16 says God loves the world, the context is mankind. Remember the Sunday School diddy that goes like...

Jesus loves the little children,
All the children of the world.
Red, brown, yellow, black and blue,
He loves me and even you...

Having said that, all of creation will be redeemed in the future. The world was initially good in God's sight, and it will be returned to that state in the future.


Romans 8:22
“For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.”

Jesus paid a price that was high enough to redeem all of creation. The time it is to be applied to men's souls is now. The time for it to be applied to their bodies is the Rapture. The time for it to be applied to the rest of creation is Christ's second coming.

It is only after the 1000 years of Millennial reign that the New Heaven and New Earth will appear.

Revelation 21:1
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”

amen the way he’s offered it it’s going to be much better because instead of death and suffering being in man’s future it’s going to be behind us forever

“And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. ( all that is old news )

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.

I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The sons of God never to know pain and sorrow but always know life and his presence

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Amen. Some Church history:

Calvinism came in during the time of the protestant reformation and virtually destroyed evangelism in many sectors. They said, "Why preach to the lost if people where already preselected for heaven or hell anyway?" The Calvinists turned a blind eye to the Great Commision set forth by Jesus.

Fortunately, the time of the Great Awakening arrived, and great missionary outreach and evangelism followed. The Church finally began fulfilling the Great Commision again and even the Baptist (who still hold Calvinist doctrine) got in on it.

Calvinism is a manmade doctrine that is now protected by modern liberalism that critiques and selects from the Bible rather than simply taking it as God's inspired word and reverently obeying it.

If you are seeking the truth, then let it be known that Christ died for all... and that means you. He is knocking at you hearts door right now.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”

" Once upon a night so weary , as I pondered Jesus dearly

Suddenly there came a rustle , soft and gentle knocking subtle

Slight noises on , my chamber door. 'twas the wind and nothing more


Then lonely silence stood unbroken , after prayers had then been spoken

And I nodded nearly napping , suddenly there came some tapping

Tapping now upon the door , "it must be storming , nothing more."


So I was , to sleep left falling , surely there was no one calling

Now it came a firm felt rapping , loud and clear someone was rapping

Rapping on my chamber door , twas the gospel , nothing more"

 

[rogerg]

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”

Spiritual hearing and physical/human hearing are different kinds of hearing. Spiritual hearing is specifically and solely given by God with salvation. All people do not receive this - it is not human or physical hearing. The hearing of the above verse is spiritual.

[Jhn 8:43 KJV] 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.

[Mat 13:16 KJV] 16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.