Was Simon the Sorcerer saved?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

MOC

Member
Mar 20, 2020
84
69
18
#1
Many believe that Simon the Sorcerer was actually a believer, others say he was not, and still others say he was saved but then lost his salvation. If we interpret scripture correctly, one CANNOT lose their salvation. The book of Ephesians teaches that once someone accepts and believes in the Truth of Jesus Christ, then that person's salvation is "sealed". Concerning Simon the Sorcerer, there is really not a lot to go on. The Bible doesn't say too much about this man. Church leaders such as Justin Martyr describe Simon as having heretical views, claiming that he is known in history as Simon Magus, "Magus" being a term which means sorcerer or magician. In our history books we learn that Simon the Sorcerer had followers called "Simonians" which held certain gnostic beliefs. This also led to the belief that he was one of the originators of Gnosticism. Philip Schaff, author of History of the Christian church, believes Simon was in constant opposition to the Apostle Peter. But not all church leaders have such a bad opinion of Simon. Some have suggested that Scripture points to him having the same saving faith as the rest of the people being baptized in the book of Acts.

Acts 8:13
"Then Simon himself believed also: And when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done." It would seem in this passage that Simon received the same saving faith as the people in verse 12 did. Would it not be arbitrary to deny Luke's affirmation of Simon's salvation while accepting his affirmation of the other's?

Acts 8:17-23
Peter and John laid their hands on the people so that they received the Holy Spirit. Simon was amazed at seeing this and asked how he could receive such power. Peter says to him, "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money." Although Simon had made an outward profession of faith(baptism), his response demonstrates his lack of spiritual life. Every Christian can fall into temptations just as easily as Simon did.

Arguments for Simon's salvation
1. We have to trust and believe that since the author, Luke, who was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, revealed that the Samaritans believed and were baptized and were saved, then we must also have to include Simon.
2. Peter never says that Simon didn't believe nor rejected Christ.
3. Simon responds by asking the Apostles to pray for him, which normally describes a believers response.
Arguments against Simon's salvation
1. Simon practiced sorcery and demonstrated illusions of the mind, which some people would attribute this as a way to discredit God's power.
2. Church leaders take to passages such as Acts 8:21, "heart not being right with God."
3. Simon pleads with Peter to pray for him on his behalf to the Lord. Many take this to mean that if Simon were saved he could have prayed himself and asked God's forgiveness, if he were truly saved.

We should be careful when examining these passages concerning Simon the Sorcerer's salvation. The passages of scripture just doesn't give the reader enough information to make a doctrinal conclusion. But scripture does say that Simon believed. Just because the Bible doesn't mention the Holy Spirit falling upon him, doesn't mean He never did. Simon's NEED in the story many not have been to be saved.......maybe he already was? Maybe it was to repent of specific sins and be forgiven. Grace that saves unbelievers freely will also forgive believers abundantly.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,843
13,558
113
#2
Arguments against Simon's salvation
1. Simon practiced sorcery
I read in verse 9 that he "previously" practiced sorcery, not that he continued in it after having believed. And I read in verse 24 that when he was rebuked he did not despise it but asked for prayer, seeking mercy - which seems to me to be in keeping with repentance.

All of us stumble and have need of forgiveness - even Peter who rebuked Simon was himself rebuked at times. Because Peter stumbled do i imagine he is not saved? No, I read that Peter believed. Likewise I read that Simon also believed.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,312
3,618
113
#3
Was Simon the Sorcerer saved?
Simon believed and was baptized. This would indicate he was saved by anyone's definition. He was contrite when Peter rebuked him. I see nothing to indicate he was anything other than saved.
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
676
324
63
#4
Many believe that Simon the Sorcerer was actually a believer, others say he was not, and still others say he was saved but then lost his salvation. If we interpret scripture correctly, one CANNOT lose their salvation. The book of Ephesians teaches that once someone accepts and believes in the Truth of Jesus Christ, then that person's salvation is "sealed". Concerning Simon the Sorcerer, there is really not a lot to go on. The Bible doesn't say too much about this man. Church leaders such as Justin Martyr describe Simon as having heretical views, claiming that he is known in history as Simon Magus, "Magus" being a term which means sorcerer or magician. In our history books we learn that Simon the Sorcerer had followers called "Simonians" which held certain gnostic beliefs. This also led to the belief that he was one of the originators of Gnosticism. Philip Schaff, author of History of the Christian church, believes Simon was in constant opposition to the Apostle Peter. But not all church leaders have such a bad opinion of Simon. Some have suggested that Scripture points to him having the same saving faith as the rest of the people being baptized in the book of Acts.

Acts 8:13
"Then Simon himself believed also: And when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done." It would seem in this passage that Simon received the same saving faith as the people in verse 12 did. Would it not be arbitrary to deny Luke's affirmation of Simon's salvation while accepting his affirmation of the other's?

Acts 8:17-23
Peter and John laid their hands on the people so that they received the Holy Spirit. Simon was amazed at seeing this and asked how he could receive such power. Peter says to him, "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money." Although Simon had made an outward profession of faith(baptism), his response demonstrates his lack of spiritual life. Every Christian can fall into temptations just as easily as Simon did.

Arguments for Simon's salvation
1. We have to trust and believe that since the author, Luke, who was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, revealed that the Samaritans believed and were baptized and were saved, then we must also have to include Simon.
2. Peter never says that Simon didn't believe nor rejected Christ.
3. Simon responds by asking the Apostles to pray for him, which normally describes a believers response.
Arguments against Simon's salvation
1. Simon practiced sorcery and demonstrated illusions of the mind, which some people would attribute this as a way to discredit God's power.
2. Church leaders take to passages such as Acts 8:21, "heart not being right with God."
3. Simon pleads with Peter to pray for him on his behalf to the Lord. Many take this to mean that if Simon were saved he could have prayed himself and asked God's forgiveness, if he were truly saved.

We should be careful when examining these passages concerning Simon the Sorcerer's salvation. The passages of scripture just doesn't give the reader enough information to make a doctrinal conclusion. But scripture does say that Simon believed. Just because the Bible doesn't mention the Holy Spirit falling upon him, doesn't mean He never did. Simon's NEED in the story many not have been to be saved.......maybe he already was? Maybe it was to repent of specific sins and be forgiven. Grace that saves unbelievers freely will also forgive believers abundantly.
I think he was saved: he believed.
My heart's not always right with God - when I let my mind drift where it ought not.
Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Acts 8:21 (KJV)
"This matter" is laying on of hands for people to receive the Holy Ghost. I've never had a part in that matter - even when my heart IS right with God.
Practical sanctification (after salvation) is a life long process; which involves repenting of one's wickedness, getting out of the gall of bitterness, and getting freed from the bond of iniquity.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,720
596
113
#5
I think all who believed Simon was saved better read the whole piece of Scripture ------as it definitely shows that Simon's heart was not really with God but was with his own pride wanting to puff himself up by pretending to be a believer ------and wanting the power and ability of the Apostles --Peter and John and that of Philip ------he was a deceiver -------


Acts 8:9-24

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition



9 But there was a man named Simon, who had formerly practiced magic arts in the city to the utter amazement of the Samaritan nation, claiming that he himself was an extraordinary and distinguished person.

10 They all paid earnest attention to him, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is that exhibition of the power of God which is called great (intense).

11 And they were attentive and made much of him, because for a long time he had amazed and bewildered and dazzled them with his skill in magic arts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I say -----so we see here in verse 11 the people made much of Simon --they paid attention to him and they though that Simon was exhibiting God's power -----he was deceiving them with his magic skills ---

But when Philip came with the Good News the people listened to him and were baptised only by making a profession of their Faith -----see verse 12 and 13 below -the Holy Spirit had not come to them at thus time as we see in the scripture here -------and Simon who listened to the Gospel also made a profession of his faith but it was not a genuine Faith profession and you see that down in the below verses -----Simon was playing the game ----he stayed with Philip and was amazed at the power and miracles that were being done ----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


12 But when they believed the good news (the Gospel) about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ (the Messiah) as Philip preached it, they were baptized, both men and women.


13 Even Simon himself believed [he adhered to, trusted in, and relied on the teaching of Philip], and after being baptized, devoted himself constantly to him. And seeing signs and miracles of great power which were being performed, he was utterly amazed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I say -----So in verse 14 Peter and john join Philip ------So Peter and John prayed that they would receive the Holy Spirit in verse 15 -----Verse 16 -----says the Holy Spirit had not fallen upon them yet -------they had not had the laying on of hands yet by the Apostles -------
Verse 17 ---they receive the Holy spirit one by one -------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

14 Now when the apostles (special messengers) at Jerusalem heard that [the country of] Samaria had accepted and welcomed the Word of God, they sent Peter and John to them,

15 And they came down and prayed for them that the Samaritans might receive the Holy Spirit;

16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them, but they had only been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.

17 Then [the apostles] laid their hands on them one by one, and they received the Holy Spirit.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I say -----Now -----verse 18----- is where the rubber meets the Road for Simon being saved --------Simon heart was far from God even though he made a profession of Faith ----as here you see he is offering money to the Apostles to lay hands on him so he also could have the Holy Spirit -------all he wanted was the power and authority that the Apostles had -----

So Simon was a deceiver ---He deceived Philip by making Philip believe he really did believe in the Good News -----But you see in verses 20 ---he didn't fool Peter -------and in verses 21-24 ---you see he was never saved ---
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

18 However, when Simon saw that the [Holy] Spirit was imparted through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he brought money and offered it to them,

19 Saying, Grant me also this power and authority, in order that anyone on whom I place my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.

20 But Peter said to him, Destruction overtake your money and you, because you imagined you could obtain the [free] gift of God with money!

21 You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is all wrong in God’s sight [it is not straightforward or right or true before God].

22 So repent of this depravity and wickedness of yours and pray to the Lord that, if possible, this [a]contriving thought and purpose of your heart may be removed and disregarded and forgiven you.

23 For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in [b]a bond forged by iniquity [to fetter souls].

24 And Simon answered, Pray for me [beseech the Lord, both of you], that nothing of what you have said may befall me!
Read full chapter
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#6
If we interpret scripture correctly, one CANNOT lose their salvation.
Apostacy happens, and will continue to happen more and more frequently as the last day approaches.

The book of Ephesians teaches that once someone accepts and believes in the Truth of Jesus Christ, then that person's salvation is "sealed".
And breaking that seal carries serious consequences, as we shall see in Hebrews 6.
Perseverance in faith is a condition for salvation.

Sorry if you think I derailed your thread, but actually it was you who derailed your own thread.

Hebrews 6
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,843
13,558
113
#7
I think all who believed Simon was saved better read the whole piece of Scripture ------as it definitely shows that Simon's heart was not really with God but was with his own pride wanting to puff himself up by pretending to be a believer ------and wanting the power and ability of the Apostles --Peter and John and that of Philip ------he was a deceiver -------
Compare:

Mark 8:31-33
And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. He spoke this word openly. Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. But when He had turned around and looked at His disciples, He rebuked Peter, saying, "Get behind Me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,720
596
113
#8
Mark 8:31-33
And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. He spoke this word openly. Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. But when He had turned around and looked at His disciples, He rebuked Peter, saying, "Get behind Me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."
I say
Jesus is talking about His death here and his rejection from the elders and chief priests in your quote---------- and Peter is simply rebuking what Jesus is saying ---Peter had no clue that Jesus was meant to die or be rejected ----so Peter was just rejecting what Jesus was saying because he was ignorant as to the Spiritual reason Jesus was sent by His father -----non of the disciples knew that Jesus was sent to die -----and so Peter;s thinking was not on what God wanted but what he saw as not happening ---AND ------Jesus says That -----For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."

So what is your point here -----????----
There is no comparison between Simon and Peter if that is your point -------

Simon heart was never with God ---it was with his own self interest ----Peter was just ignorant as to why Jesus was sent ----

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Compare this -------Peter was the only one who knew who Jesus was ------this was revealed to Peter by God -----Peter's heart was with God ----and Wisdom and knowledge is given to him by God


Mark 8:27-30

Amplified Bible

Peter’s Confession of Christ

27 Then Jesus and His disciples went out to the villages of [a]Caesarea Philippi; and on the way He asked His disciples, “Who do people say that I am?”

28 They answered Him, “John the Baptist; and others say Elijah; but others, one of the prophets.”

29 And He asked them, “But who do you say that I am?” Peter replied to Him, “You [in contrast to the others] are the Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed).”

30 Then Jesus strictly warned them not to tell anyone about Him.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#9
Many believe that Simon the Sorcerer was actually a believer, others say he was not, and still others say he was saved but then lost his salvation.
Short answer: "No he was DEFINITELY NOT saved".
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#11
Many believe that Simon the Sorcerer was actually a believer, others say he was not, and still others say he was saved but then lost his salvation. If we interpret scripture correctly, one CANNOT lose their salvation. The book of Ephesians teaches that once someone accepts and believes in the Truth of Jesus Christ, then that person's salvation is "sealed". Concerning Simon the Sorcerer, there is really not a lot to go on. The Bible doesn't say too much about this man. Church leaders such as Justin Martyr describe Simon as having heretical views, claiming that he is known in history as Simon Magus, "Magus" being a term which means sorcerer or magician. In our history books we learn that Simon the Sorcerer had followers called "Simonians" which held certain gnostic beliefs. This also led to the belief that he was one of the originators of Gnosticism. Philip Schaff, author of History of the Christian church, believes Simon was in constant opposition to the Apostle Peter. But not all church leaders have such a bad opinion of Simon. Some have suggested that Scripture points to him having the same saving faith as the rest of the people being baptized in the book of Acts.

Acts 8:13
"Then Simon himself believed also: And when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done." It would seem in this passage that Simon received the same saving faith as the people in verse 12 did. Would it not be arbitrary to deny Luke's affirmation of Simon's salvation while accepting his affirmation of the other's?

Acts 8:17-23
Peter and John laid their hands on the people so that they received the Holy Spirit. Simon was amazed at seeing this and asked how he could receive such power. Peter says to him, "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money." Although Simon had made an outward profession of faith(baptism), his response demonstrates his lack of spiritual life. Every Christian can fall into temptations just as easily as Simon did.

Arguments for Simon's salvation
1. We have to trust and believe that since the author, Luke, who was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, revealed that the Samaritans believed and were baptized and were saved, then we must also have to include Simon.
2. Peter never says that Simon didn't believe nor rejected Christ.
3. Simon responds by asking the Apostles to pray for him, which normally describes a believers response.
Arguments against Simon's salvation
1. Simon practiced sorcery and demonstrated illusions of the mind, which some people would attribute this as a way to discredit God's power.
2. Church leaders take to passages such as Acts 8:21, "heart not being right with God."
3. Simon pleads with Peter to pray for him on his behalf to the Lord. Many take this to mean that if Simon were saved he could have prayed himself and asked God's forgiveness, if he were truly saved.

We should be careful when examining these passages concerning Simon the Sorcerer's salvation. The passages of scripture just doesn't give the reader enough information to make a doctrinal conclusion. But scripture does say that Simon believed. Just because the Bible doesn't mention the Holy Spirit falling upon him, doesn't mean He never did. Simon's NEED in the story many not have been to be saved.......maybe he already was? Maybe it was to repent of specific sins and be forgiven. Grace that saves unbelievers freely will also forgive believers abundantly.
Personally I don't think there's enough information. Simply believing isn't how one necessarily gets the Holy Spirit (Acts 19:2) which could possibly explain Simon's lack of spiritual compass. It also doesn't necessarily mean Simon did not have the Holy Spirit and was acting on carnal/worldly knowledge, much like those babes in Christ below:

1 Corinthians 3
1Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,213
6,610
113
62
#12
Personally I don't think there's enough information. Simply believing isn't how one necessarily gets the Holy Spirit (Acts 19:2) which could possibly explain Simon's lack of spiritual compass. It also doesn't necessarily mean Simon did not have the Holy Spirit and was acting on carnal/worldly knowledge, much like those babes in Christ below:

1 Corinthians 3
1Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans?
Is being born again the same as salvation ?
 

Amanuensis

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2021
1,457
460
83
#13
Many believe that Simon the Sorcerer was actually a believer, others say he was not, and still others say he was saved but then lost his salvation. If we interpret scripture correctly, one CANNOT lose their salvation. The book of Ephesians teaches that once someone accepts and believes in the Truth of Jesus Christ, then that person's salvation is "sealed". Concerning Simon the Sorcerer, there is really not a lot to go on. The Bible doesn't say too much about this man. Church leaders such as Justin Martyr describe Simon as having heretical views, claiming that he is known in history as Simon Magus, "Magus" being a term which means sorcerer or magician. In our history books we learn that Simon the Sorcerer had followers called "Simonians" which held certain gnostic beliefs. This also led to the belief that he was one of the originators of Gnosticism. Philip Schaff, author of History of the Christian church, believes Simon was in constant opposition to the Apostle Peter. But not all church leaders have such a bad opinion of Simon. Some have suggested that Scripture points to him having the same saving faith as the rest of the people being baptized in the book of Acts.

Acts 8:13
"Then Simon himself believed also: And when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done." It would seem in this passage that Simon received the same saving faith as the people in verse 12 did. Would it not be arbitrary to deny Luke's affirmation of Simon's salvation while accepting his affirmation of the other's?

Acts 8:17-23
Peter and John laid their hands on the people so that they received the Holy Spirit. Simon was amazed at seeing this and asked how he could receive such power. Peter says to him, "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money." Although Simon had made an outward profession of faith(baptism), his response demonstrates his lack of spiritual life. Every Christian can fall into temptations just as easily as Simon did.

Arguments for Simon's salvation
1. We have to trust and believe that since the author, Luke, who was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, revealed that the Samaritans believed and were baptized and were saved, then we must also have to include Simon.
2. Peter never says that Simon didn't believe nor rejected Christ.
3. Simon responds by asking the Apostles to pray for him, which normally describes a believers response.
Arguments against Simon's salvation
1. Simon practiced sorcery and demonstrated illusions of the mind, which some people would attribute this as a way to discredit God's power.
2. Church leaders take to passages such as Acts 8:21, "heart not being right with God."
3. Simon pleads with Peter to pray for him on his behalf to the Lord. Many take this to mean that if Simon were saved he could have prayed himself and asked God's forgiveness, if he were truly saved.

We should be careful when examining these passages concerning Simon the Sorcerer's salvation. The passages of scripture just doesn't give the reader enough information to make a doctrinal conclusion. But scripture does say that Simon believed. Just because the Bible doesn't mention the Holy Spirit falling upon him, doesn't mean He never did. Simon's NEED in the story many not have been to be saved.......maybe he already was? Maybe it was to repent of specific sins and be forgiven. Grace that saves unbelievers freely will also forgive believers abundantly.
He believed and was baptized. He and the Samaritans would qualify as saved in the doctrinal sense of the "saved by grace through faith" doctrine that we preach to others today. It would be confusion to suggest that they were not yet saved until Peter and John laid hands on them. So if the Holy Spirit is required to do the work of conversion in the heart that makes one born again we preach and teach today that that work of the Spirit took place when they believed. Thus making the laying on of hands by the Apostles at least a week or more later, an empowering of the Holy Spirit for service, and not for salvation.

During this delay of a week or more between the time that Simon Believed and was baptized there seems to have been a drawing away back to covetousness, and the idea of purchasing the gift was most likely for charging people for the gift And since we know from other historical writings that there were many who practiced this career of sorcery and sold their secrets to one another. Simone would not have thought much about the sin of asking for the "secret" at a price since that is what all in his profession did and they did not see it as a sin.

Peter's rebuke ..."You have no part or share in this matter, because your heart is not right before God.a 22Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, your heart’s intent may be forgiven. 23For I see you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by wickedness. "

Peter is paraphrasing but quoting from the curse of the disobedient.
Deut 29:
18Be sure there is no man, woman, clan, or tribe among you today whose heart turns away from the Lord our God to go and worship the gods of those nations. Be sure there is no root among you bearing poisonous and bitter fruit.a 19When someone hears the words of this oath, he may consider himself exempt,A thinking, ‘I will have peace even though I follow my own stubborn heart.’ This will lead to the destruction of the well-watered land as well as the dry land. 20The Lord will not be willing to forgive him. Instead, his anger and jealousy will burn against that person, and every curse written in this scroll will descend on him. The Lord will blot out his name under heaven,a 21and single him out for harm from all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant written in this book of the law.

So Peter who has been given discernment to see the heart condition of Simon, spells out the details of that heart by referencing Deut 29:18. Notice that what was most likely in the mind of Simon, some time after he believed and was baptized is that the told himself "I will have peace even though I will follow my own stubborn heart".

This caused Peter to say "You have no part or share in this matter,". I believe he did have part and share when he first believed but then he fell through a choice to follow sin instead of continue in repentance. Like the type of soil that received with joy but then fell away soon after because of covetousness in this case choking out the word that was planted.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#14
Is being born again the same as salvation ?
I wouldn't say they are the same thing but they are closely related.

John 3
3Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. ”
 

Amanuensis

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2021
1,457
460
83
#15
Peter said he was in the gall of bitterness and the bond of iniquity. Peter was referring to Deut 29:18 which adds much to the conversation.

Be sure there is no root among you bearing poisonous and bitter fruit.a 19When someone hears the words of this oath, he may consider himself exempt,A thinking, ‘I will have peace even though I follow my own stubborn heart.’
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
1,603
804
113
#16
Many believe that Simon the Sorcerer was actually a believer, others say he was not, and still others say he was saved but then lost his salvation.
Seems that there's a story about the "sower and the seed" -
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,213
6,610
113
62
#17
I wouldn't say they are the same thing but they are closely related.

John 3
3Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. ”
Thanks for responding.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,267
1,049
113
#19
Peter was referring to Deut 29:18 which adds much to the conversation.
It certainly does... I wonder if Simon knew the scriptures though; I suppose he did being among the Samaritans- they had Deuteronomy. Their conversation is a little hazy "you need to pray and repent", " You pray for me, so that doesn't happen", that's not a bad thing to ask, but... I feel like I would have asked for more- like, I would ask Peter to help me deal with the situation right then and there; I'd be like "will you pray with me right now and help me fix this?", maybe he was still holding onto something about his life of sorcery... maybe there was an idol he was attached to or something, that he thought he could continue-like it says- in his stubborn ways, he could pay for the power, and it would be "his" to do his sorceries with, or whatever; but that isn't the case- so he had to work through that still.
 

Papermonkey

Active member
Dec 2, 2022
724
257
43
#20
Many believe that Simon the Sorcerer was actually a believer, others say he was not, and still others say he was saved but then lost his salvation. If we interpret scripture correctly, one CANNOT lose their salvation. The book of Ephesians teaches that once someone accepts and believes in the Truth of Jesus Christ, then that person's salvation is "sealed". Concerning Simon the Sorcerer, there is really not a lot to go on. The Bible doesn't say too much about this man. Church leaders such as Justin Martyr describe Simon as having heretical views, claiming that he is known in history as Simon Magus, "Magus" being a term which means sorcerer or magician. In our history books we learn that Simon the Sorcerer had followers called "Simonians" which held certain gnostic beliefs. This also led to the belief that he was one of the originators of Gnosticism. Philip Schaff, author of History of the Christian church, believes Simon was in constant opposition to the Apostle Peter. But not all church leaders have such a bad opinion of Simon. Some have suggested that Scripture points to him having the same saving faith as the rest of the people being baptized in the book of Acts.

Acts 8:13
"Then Simon himself believed also: And when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done." It would seem in this passage that Simon received the same saving faith as the people in verse 12 did. Would it not be arbitrary to deny Luke's affirmation of Simon's salvation while accepting his affirmation of the other's?

Acts 8:17-23
Peter and John laid their hands on the people so that they received the Holy Spirit. Simon was amazed at seeing this and asked how he could receive such power. Peter says to him, "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money." Although Simon had made an outward profession of faith(baptism), his response demonstrates his lack of spiritual life. Every Christian can fall into temptations just as easily as Simon did.

Arguments for Simon's salvation
1. We have to trust and believe that since the author, Luke, who was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, revealed that the Samaritans believed and were baptized and were saved, then we must also have to include Simon.
2. Peter never says that Simon didn't believe nor rejected Christ.
3. Simon responds by asking the Apostles to pray for him, which normally describes a believers response.
Arguments against Simon's salvation
1. Simon practiced sorcery and demonstrated illusions of the mind, which some people would attribute this as a way to discredit God's power.
2. Church leaders take to passages such as Acts 8:21, "heart not being right with God."
3. Simon pleads with Peter to pray for him on his behalf to the Lord. Many take this to mean that if Simon were saved he could have prayed himself and asked God's forgiveness, if he were truly saved.

We should be careful when examining these passages concerning Simon the Sorcerer's salvation. The passages of scripture just doesn't give the reader enough information to make a doctrinal conclusion. But scripture does say that Simon believed. Just because the Bible doesn't mention the Holy Spirit falling upon him, doesn't mean He never did. Simon's NEED in the story many not have been to be saved.......maybe he already was? Maybe it was to repent of specific sins and be forgiven. Grace that saves unbelievers freely will also forgive believers abundantly.
Acts 8:13 tells us Simon was saved.