Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[cv5]

Did Paul think he was talking to Galatians who had faith in Christ Jesus and had the Holy Spirit?


Galatians 3:26
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:6-7
And because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, you are also an heir through God.

Galatians 3:1-2
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?
Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?



Did Paul warn those same Galatians that Christ could become of no value at all to them?

Galatians 5:1-4
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.

Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.



And who did Paul warn that those who practiced the sins in Galatians 5:19-21 would not inherit the Kingdom of God?

Galatians 5:19-21
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

There may be a very few things in this existence that are IMPOSSIBLE.....but "losing your salvation" is definitely one of them.

Maybe Spurgeon can help you out here.....

"The apostle Paul declares that Levi was in the loins of Abraham when Melchizedek met him: it is a certain truth that the believer was in the loins of Jesus Christ, the Mediator, when in old eternity the covenant settlements of grace were decreed, ratified, and made sure for ever. Thus, whatever Christ hath done, He hath wrought for the whole body of His Church. We were crucified in Him and buried with Him (read Col. 2:10-13), and to make it still more wonderful, we are risen with Him and even ascended with Him to the seats on high (Eph. 2:6)."

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/eph/2/6/s_1099006

Strong's:G4891English:hath raised [us] up together,
Code:V-AAI-3S
Long:Verb - Aorist Active Indicative - 3rd Person Singular
A simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.

 

[cv5]

There may be a very few things in this existence that are IMPOSSIBLE.....but "losing your salvation" is definitely one of them.

Maybe Spurgeon can help you out here.....

"The apostle Paul declares that Levi was in the loins of Abraham when Melchizedek met him: it is a certain truth that the believer was in the loins of Jesus Christ, the Mediator, when in old eternity the covenant settlements of grace were decreed, ratified, and made sure for ever. Thus, whatever Christ hath done, He hath wrought for the whole body of His Church. We were crucified in Him and buried with Him (read Col. 2:10-13), and to make it still more wonderful, we are risen with Him and even ascended with Him to the seats on high (Eph. 2:6)."

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/eph/2/6/s_1099006

Strong's: G4891
English: hath raised [us] up together,
Code: V-AAI-3S
Long: Verb - Aorist Active Indicative - 3rd Person Singular
A simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.

Salvation: A done deal in eternity past...

Strong's: G4891
English:hath raised [us] up together,
Code:V-AAI-3S
Long: Verb - Aorist Active Indicative - 3rd Person Singular
A simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.

Eph 2:6
And hath raised us up together, G4891 and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Col 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with G4891 him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Col 3:1
If ye G4891 ➔ then be risen G4891 with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

 

[cv5]

Inheritance is different to entrance.

Entrance to the Kingdom is at initial belief in Jesus Christ as God.. John 3:16.. Romans 10:9-10

Inheritance.. is rewards for the faithful. Their works are refined in the fire and producing gold. Bad works.. they remain saved.. but works burned up.

Absolutely disagree. All of the redeemed are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, all receive an inheritance.

Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

1Pe 1:4
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

Inheritance is different to entrance.

Entrance to the Kingdom is at initial belief in Jesus Christ as God.. John 3:16.. Romans 10:9-10

Inheritance.. is rewards for the faithful. Their works are refined in the fire and producing gold. Bad works.. they remain saved.. but works burned up.

Speaking of acts of the flesh, in the next chapter, if (in bold)

Galatians 6:8
The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life


and

Galatians 5:19-21
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


are essentially synonymous, then those who "practice such things" will (in bold)

Galatians 6:8
The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life


As you probably have noticed there are two other questions in that post as well that seem relevant to the topic.

 

[wattie]

Absolutely disagree. All of the redeemed are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, all receive an inheritance.

Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

1Pe 1:4
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Yes.. I'm not saying struggling Christians won't be saved or have ANY inheritance in the Kingdom.

I'm saying the faithful will have more.

 

[cv5]

I'm saying the faithful will have more.

Honestly at this point I am not convinced of this assertion.
However we do receive "stephanos" relative to our striving/exertions/suffering for His sake.

1Co 9:25
And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; G4735 but we an incorruptible.

Jas 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown G4735 of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

G4735 - stephanos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)

 

[BillG]

Jesus knew Judas personally, intimately, and completely in a shepherd to sheep relationship. As a result, Jesus one time said to Judas he would have eternal life.

Can you give me a verse where Jesus said that?
If you have already posted it after the above post of yours can you give me the link.

When I look at the following I cannot see why Jesus would say to Judas that he would have eternal life.

John 6:64-71
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

In verse 70 Jesus chose 12 yet one is the devil.
If that's the case then Jesus knew beforehand who it was and there is no way that I can see based on the above that Jesus would say to Judas would have eternal life.

Jesus surely would not say to a devil you would have eternal life.

I agree with @posthuman #2618 post.

 

[cv5]

Jesus knew Judas personally, intimately, and completely in a shepherd to sheep relationship.

Absolutely FALSE. Judas did NOT put his faith in the Son of God.
If he did, he would have been/remained redeemed despite his failures as Peter was.

Jhn 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

 

[cv5]

John 6:64-71
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

Agree: Judas - did not believe.

Axiomatically those who "do not believe" are not saved.

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

Salvation: A done deal in eternity past...

Strong's: G4891
English:hath raised [us] up together,
Code:V-AAI-3S
Long: Verb - Aorist Active Indicative - 3rd Person Singular
A simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.

Eph 2:6
And hath raised us up together, G4891 and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Col 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with G4891 him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Col 3:1
If ye G4891 ➔ then be risen G4891 with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

This is very similar to Romans 6 language

Romans 6:8-11
Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God. So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Would you consider them as referring to the same thing?

if they are then, despite this, the Romans presumably did not lose the ability to

Romans 6:12
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires.


Paul also says

Romans 6:15-16
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness?


Which, again, seems to be to Ephesians 2-saved people.

Further, if "let sin reign" is essentially practicing sin, or sowing to please the flesh, then they expressly did not lose the ability to (in bold)
Galatians 5:19-21
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Galatians 6:8
The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.


believe the Bible over any errors that I make, however.

 

[SomeDisciple]

 

[posthuman]

John 6:64-71
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

In verse 70 Jesus chose 12 yet one is the devil.
If that's the case then Jesus knew beforehand who it was and there is no way that I can see based on the above that Jesus would say to Judas would have eternal life.

Also v. 64 states that He knew who did not believe, and specificies Judas.

I agree with @posthuman #2618 post.

Yay!

Agree: Judas - did not believe.

Axiomatically those who "do not believe" are not saved.

Ah you beat me to it by 8 min bro
=]

 

[Magenta]

Can you give me a verse where Jesus said that?

No, he cannot, and despite asserting that he only believes what the Bible says, he promotes
much it does not, while essentially if not outright claiming it is written. What Jesus in fact said
of Judas was, it would be better if he had never been born, not that Judas would have eternal life.

The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who
betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.

 

[cv5]

Romans 6:8-11
Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God. So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

"reckon (G3049 impute) ye also yourselves"
I think that is the key passage. Recognition of and faith in a completed act.

 

[Runningman]

Absolutely FALSE. Judas did NOT put his faith in the Son of God.
If he did, he would have been/remained redeemed despite his failures as Peter was.

Jhn 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

No you're wrong.

John 10:26 isn't written to Judas. Don't you think Jesus would have tried to save Judas if one of his closest followers was an unbeliever? Yet Jesus never called Judas an unbeliever. That's because Judas was a believer and the New Testament proves it.

 

[Runningman]

Can you give me a verse where Jesus said that?
If you have already posted it after the above post of yours can you give me the link.

When I look at the following I cannot see why Jesus would say to Judas that he would have eternal life.

John 6:64-71
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

In verse 70 Jesus chose 12 yet one is the devil.
If that's the case then Jesus knew beforehand who it was and there is no way that I can see based on the above that Jesus would say to Judas would have eternal life.

Jesus surely would not say to a devil you would have eternal life.

I agree with @posthuman #2618 post.

In Matthew 19, Jesus told the 12 apostles they would inherit eternal life and have a throne. Judas was one of the 12 apostles, a follower of Jesus, and left everything to follow him.

Or do you insist this verse only applies to Peter since none of the other 11 apostles were mentioned by name?

27Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”
28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

 

[Runningman]

No, he cannot, and despite asserting that he only believes what the Bible says, he promotes
much it does not, while essentially if not outright claiming it is written. What Jesus in fact said
of Judas was, it would be better if he had never been born, not that Judas would have eternal life.

Try me. I can quote a verse for anything Christians believe.

The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who
betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.

Apostle Peter debunks OSAS below. Glory to God.

2 Peter 2
20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Good Video!

But that is not my main reason, outside of the Bible itself for condemning anything presented by John Calvin.

 

[BillG]

In Matthew 19, Jesus told the 12 apostles they would inherit eternal life and have a throne. Judas was one of the 12 apostles, a follower of Jesus, and left everything to follow him.

Or do you insist this verse only applies to Peter since none of the other 11 apostles were mentioned by name?

27Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”
28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

Really sorry but cannot see in Matthew 19 where Jesus told the 12 Apostles they would inherit eternal life and have a throne.

Peter said "We have followed you"

It does not say Judas was saved have eternal life.

After all why would Jesus say that to a man who knew was a devil?

John 6:70
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

A devil was never saved to begin with.

Was not Judas part of the equation?

Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Judas does not sit on the 12th throne

 

[Runningman]

Really sorry but cannot see in Matthew 19 where Jesus told the 12 Apostles they would inherit eternal life and have a throne.

Peter said "We have followed you"

It does not say Judas was saved have eternal life.

After all why would Jesus say that to a man who knew was a devil?

John 6:70
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

A devil was never saved to begin with.

Was not Judas part of the equation?

Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Judas does not sit on the 12th throne

Who was Jesus speaking to and who are the 12 thrones for? Who is the “we” and “us” Peter referred to? Doesn’t say the 12 apostles get the 12 throne so is it some other unnamed apostles who get the 12 thrones?