Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[cv5]

Peter is talking about people such as Judas Iscariot who lost their salvation after at one point obtaining it.

@Runningman: "As a result, Jesus one time said to Judas he would have eternal life."
@Runningman: Yet Jesus never called Judas an unbeliever. That's because Judas was a believer and the New Testament proves it.
@Runningman: "Peter is talking about people such as Judas Iscariot who lost their salvation after at one point obtaining it."
@Runningman: "Judas repented. I’ll never move from that despite your repeated attempts to gaslight me into thinking otherwise."
@Runningman: "Paul said this repentance is the kind of repentance that comes from sorrow, just as God intended. Judas had it. "
@Runningman: "Of course, you wouldn’t have Judas doing anything right even though the Bible says otherwise. It’s just part of your narrative that Judas never repented when the Bible says he did.

So now you are saying that Judas WAS undoubtedly saved, then somehow LOST his salvation, and then REGAINED it after "repenting"?
You are all over the map. Please help us out with a cogent reply to this seemingly paradoxical quandary.

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman: "As a result, Jesus one time said to Judas he would have eternal life."
@Runningman: Yet Jesus never called Judas an unbeliever. That's because Judas was a believer and the New Testament proves it.
@Runningman: "Peter is talking about people such as Judas Iscariot who lost their salvation after at one point obtaining it."
@Runningman: "Judas repented. I’ll never move from that despite your repeated attempts to gaslight me into thinking otherwise."
@Runningman: "Paul said this repentance is the kind of repentance that comes from sorrow, just as God intended. Judas had it. "
@Runningman: "Of course, you wouldn’t have Judas doing anything right even though the Bible says otherwise. It’s just part of your narrative that Judas never repented when the Bible says he did.

So now you are saying that Judas WAS undoubtedly saved, then somehow LOST his salvation, and then REGAINED it after "repenting"?
You are all over the map. Please help us out with a cogent reply to this seemingly paradoxical quandary.

What I say is found in the Bible and what you say isn't. You said Judas never repented and I proved he did. You should be the one defending yourself here.

 

[cv5]

What I say is found in the Bible and what you say isn't. You said Judas never repented and I proved he did. You should be the one defending yourself here.

Let's just count the green checkmarks at the end of the day and leave it at that. Shall we?

 

[Runningman]

Let's just count the green checkmarks at the end of the day and leave it at that. Shall we?

Enioy your praise from people; your reward is fake Internet points. I'll take my praise from God.

 

[cv5]

Enioy your praise from people; your reward is fake Internet points. I'll take my praise from God.

I do not see a lot of green checkmarks coming from God by calling His Son a liar and disputing His Word of prophecy.
But have it your way.

 

[Runningman]

I do not see a lot of green checkmarks coming from God by calling His Son a liar and disputing His Word of prophecy.
But have it your way.

Why sacrifice your integrity just to say false things about me? You’re in this for your glory. It’s clear if you can make me out to be some kind of aggressor toward Jesus then you can get more fake internet points. Been seeing that a lot lately; don’t let this website get to your head, it isn’t worth it.

You’re on a sinking ship cv5. You need to repent.

 

[HeIsHere]

That is exactly what the Bible says of the elect. Hope you can wrap your head around it.

The bible states the plan of salvation was laid down before the foundation of the world not that people were chosen before the foundation of the world.

 

[Magenta]

2 Corinthians 7:10

 

[Magenta]

So now you are saying that Judas WAS undoubtedly saved, then somehow LOST his salvation, and then REGAINED it after "repenting"?
You are all over the map. Please help us out with a cogent reply to this seemingly paradoxical quandary.

Clearly it is a case of "Jesus was wrong to call Judas a 'son of perdition'."

 

[HeIsHere]

Yeah.. eternal salvation has always been faith in the Messiah. Whether to come.. or looking back at Him when He came. Job believed in a redeemer.. so did David.. among others. They weren't made righteous by their good works.. but God made them righteous by their belief in Him.

The system of service was in the Old Testament laws.. but those laws never eternally saved them. That is what the Pharisees and Scribese didn't get.

If this were so then the sacrifice of Jesus would not have been necessary.

I see that scripture is clear, those who believed God before the resurrection were accredited with righteousness, even though they had not obtained the promise, those after the resurrection were made righteous through the blood of Jesus and obtained the promise. So Jesus after his death descended to those who were in the bosom of Abraham and brought freedom to them.

As well consider Saul, the Spirit would come upon him one minute and he would prophecy, and the next minute Satan would enter him and he would try to kill David.

John 20 makes clear when the apostles were born again into the New Covenant.

22 And when he had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Was Thomas saved? He didn't believe until he saw,

 

[HeIsHere]

Judas clearly lost his standing to be counted worthy of eternal life in the age to come.

Lost his standing.

How does one loose their standing when the standing is based on someone else's work?

 

[Magenta]

Lost his standing.

How does one loose their standing when the standing is based on someone else's work?

Perhaps the question should be, how can one lose something they never had in the first place?

Judas did not believe and therefore never possessed eternal life/salvation.

For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. John 6:64b

 

[cv5]

The bible states the plan of salvation was laid down before the foundation of the world not that people were chosen before the foundation of the world.

Nope.

Eph 1:4
"According as he hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world...."

 

[Runningman]

Lost his standing.

How does one loose their standing when the standing is based on someone else's work?

Great question and it’s a valid one.

Judas Iscariot is either OSAS or he lost his salvation. Well, we know from Matthew 19 that those who leave their life and follow Jesus will inherit eternal life. So Judas checks that box.

However, Judas committed apostasy, betrayed Jesus, and though he repented of betraying innocent blood, he committed suicide.

Finally, the prophecy plainly states he was doomed to destruction. Destruction is the punishment reserved for the unsaved.

So it’s quite conclusive that Judas lost eternal life. It also meshes with scripture quite well. It seems it’s possible some are destined to be destroyed. There’s a doctrine for this. Though I am only beginning to learn predestination.

 

[HeIsHere]

Great question and it’s a valid one.

Judas Iscariot is either OSAS or he lost his salvation. Well, we know from Matthew 19 that those who leave their life and follow Jesus will inherit eternal life. So Judas checks that box.

However, Judas committed apostasy, betrayed Jesus, and though he repented of betraying innocent blood, he committed suicide.

Finally, the prophecy plainly states he was doomed to destruction. Destruction is the penalty reserves for the unsaved.

So it’s quite conclusive that Judas lost eternal life. It also meshes with scripture quite well. It seems it’s possible some are destined to be destroyed.

You are funny.

#2690 <<<<<

I think I cut through this debate in this post, read it now!!

 

[Runningman]

Lost his standing.

How does one loose their standing when the standing is based on someone else's work?

To add a bit more to my previous response, John 6 Peter said of the 12 “we” believe.

Mark 6, Judas is chosen by Jesus and given authority to cast out devils and heal. Judas wasn’t a devil yet, despite prophecy ultimately making him one.

Also, Mark 16 is clear only those who believe can cast out devils and heal.

Judas checked many desirable boxes that many Christians today can’t quite get yet.

It’s because they aren’t focusing on giving God glory, but maybe I’ll open up a thread later on how to be blessed with these gifts. I have a few myself.

 

[HeIsHere]

Nope.

Eph 1:4
"According as he hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world...."

I was thinking of a different verse but the one you posted is about God predetermining what will become of those who are in Christ through belief in His truth.

Then we also have this line...

“…when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation.”

 

[cv5]

The bible states the plan of salvation was laid down before the foundation of the world not that people were chosen before the foundation of the world.

G1586 - eklegomai
Some greeks terms may be somewhat unclear. This is not one of those. It may be one of the most clear-cut unequivocal terms in all the NT.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g1586/kjv/tr/0-1/

 

[cv5]

I was thinking of a different verse but the one you posted is about God predetermining what will become of those who are in Christ through belief in His truth.

Then we also have this line...

“…when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation.”

Ahhhhhh...no. Not "what" but "who".

And the who is "US"...G2248

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2248/kjv/tr/0-1/

 

[HeIsHere]

To add a bit more to my previous response, John 6 Peter said of the 12 “we” believe.

Mark 6, Judas is chosen by Jesus and given authority to cast out devils and heal. Judas wasn’t a devil yet, despite prophecy ultimately making him one.

Also, Mark 16 is clear only those who believe can cast out devils and heal.

Judas checked many desirable boxes that many Christians today can’t quite get yet.

It’s because they aren’t focusing on giving God glory, but maybe I’ll open up a thread later on how to be blessed with these gifts. I have a few myself.

My point the New Covenant did not begin until after Christ rose from the dead, so to speak of of Judas as saved or not saved is a straw man argument.

We do know that those born again in the new covenant have the more excellent ministry (Hebrews), they are sealed in the righteousness of Jesus.