Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[SonLight_Wolf]

I was hoping people would at least do their research before before disagreeing. Be a Berean and search the scriptures daily to see if what I am saying is true, or let me search them for you, I guess.

Matthew 25:31,46
31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.
46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Luke 20
35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

Mark 10
30will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life.

John 6
54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Romans 2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15
52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

1 John 2
24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

Jude 1
21keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

Study? One could say the same for those who insist they are co-creators of their own salvation. And must labor to secure it till they find out after they die if they worked enough on this life to deserve saving. Or if they did something that would cause them to lose it. Barring their choice to relinquish salvation of course.




You will believe as you think yourself worthy.

I am an eternally saved Christian by God's call and grace. And Jesus blood bought that assurance. Amen.

 

[Magenta]

Did Jesus know Judas? Was Jesus speaking to the 12 in Matthew 19 when he said those who
left their life to follow him would have eternal life? That seems pretty conclusive to me.

God is omniscient and knows everyone. The knowing spoken of in John 10:27 is implicitly distinctive.

 

[Cameron143]

God is omniscient and knows everyone. The knowing spoken of in John 10:27 is implicitly distinctive.

For us who are big word challenged that means He knows them one by one. He counts His many sheeplings, see what God has done.

 

[Runningman]

Study? One could say the same for those who insist they are co-creators of their own salvation. And must labor to secure it till they find out after they die if they worked enough on this life to deserve saving. Or if they did something that would cause them to lose it. Barring their choice to relinquish salvation of course.




You will believe as you think yourself worthy.

I am an eternally saved Christian by God's call and grace. And Jesus blood bought that assurance. Amen.

This seems pretty clear doesn’t it:

Romans 11
29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

Ok. So is eternal life a gift? Paul said yes.

Romans 6
23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The verses I showed you in my previous comment said eternal life is in the age to come, we wait to be brought to eternal life, we persevere in order to be given eternal life. We don’t have the gift yet, meaning there’s not an irrevocable gift. There’s only a choice by God to give it or not.

So I don’t believe we have eternal life yet, not literally, but we can have the promise of it, a surety, and a guarantee. When we take hold of the crown of life is when the gift won’t be revoked.

 

[Magenta]

For us who are big word challenged that means He knows them one by one. He counts His many sheeplings, see what God has done.

Psalm 34:8

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

This seems pretty clear doesn’t it:

Romans 11
29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

Ok. So is eternal life a gift? Paul said yes.

Romans 6
23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The verses I showed you in my previous comment said eternal life is in the age to come, we wait to be brought to eternal life, we persevere in order to be given eternal life. We don’t have the gift yet, meaning there’s not an irrevocable gift. There’s only a choice by God to give it or not.

So I don’t believe we have eternal life yet, not literally, but we can have the promise of it, a surety, and a guarantee. When we take hold of the crown of life is when the gift won’t be revoked.

I wish you luck with your sophestry.

 

[Runningman]

I wish you luck with your sophestry.

I quote the Bible and you say it's sophistry. Got it.

But when you do it, it's exegesis isn't it?

 

[posthuman]

I quote the Bible and you say it's sophistry. Got it.

soph·ist·ry
/ˈsäfəstrē,ˈsōfəstrē/

noun
the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.



The fact one quotes scripture does not guarantee they understand what they have quoted.

 

[Runningman]

The fact one quotes scripture does not guarantee they understand what they have quoted.

Now that we agree on, posthuman.

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

soph·ist·ry
/ˈsäfəstrē,ˈsōfəstrē/

noun
the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.



The fact one quotes scripture does not guarantee they understand what they have quoted.

Works salvation proponents certainly can say that of themselves.

 

[Cameron143]

Sophistry is a fun word to say.

 

[Magenta]

soph·ist·ry
/ˈsäfəstrē,ˈsōfəstrē/

noun
the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.

The fact one quotes scripture does not guarantee they understand what they have quoted.

a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning.
a false argument; sophism.

Words related to sophistry
deception, fallacy, misconception, ambiguity, casuistry, inconsistency, paralogism, trickery

I then had to look up:

paralogism

argument violating principles of valid reasoning.
a conclusion reached through such argument.

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

I quote the Bible and you say it's sophistry. Got it.

But when you do it, it's exegesis isn't it?

You quote the Bible as a means of sustaining the false teaching of revocable world based salvation. That's abusing scripture so to promote a philosophical falsehood while thinking twisting scripture disguised the falsity and instead gives the otherwise false works based salvation teaching credibility for the mere fact scripture was thrown in to bolster it.

Anyone who thinks Christians are not eternally saved right now, and that salvation can be surrendered or lost, and is something people work to secure if worthy , and will learn if they were so after this life, is speaking from their own heart and consciousness.

They're not speaking the Gospel truth. Twisting scripture doesn't change that.


You must ignore scriptures in order to promote such falsity while twisting scripture.

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

Once again, it's 'descriptive' and not prescriptive. Otherwise, we would have a contradiction in scripture. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..).

Then why not interpret saved in the sense of being "justified" as something one receives when one (as Paul meant here)

Romans 4:5-6
However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. And David speaks likewise of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

and immortality as something one would receive on

Romans 2:5-9
But because of your hard and unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will repay each one according to his deeds.” To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow wickedness, there will be wrath and anger.

or in

John 5:28-29
Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

and interpret "having eternal life" in 1 John 5:13 and similar verses as remaining in, and having in you, Jesus Christ who is

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true—in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

John 15-4-6
Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.

I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.

and not remaining in Jesus Christ as not having Jesus Christ or what He equals - eternal life?

14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. Nothing here about a loss of salvation.

There are only two kinds of servants in this world, in the spiritual sense; slaves of sin unto death, or slaves of obedience unto righteousness. When we place our faith exclusively in Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness." Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."

assuming you're inferring from v14, 17, and 18, is Paul not warning them to

Romans 6:12
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires.

If not then what is he doing?

he also warns believers to not

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

and, summarily

Ephesians 4:32
Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, outcry and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and tenderhearted to one another, forgiving each other just as in Christ God forgave you.

which suggests people with the Holy Spirit, and with Christ's forgiveness, could do these things. Could these things count as

Romans 2:8
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow wickedness, there will be wrath and anger.

btw this is expressly what God says about the last warning

Matthew 6:15
But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours.

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

and interpret "having eternal life" in 1 John 5:13 and similar verses as remaining in, and having in you, Jesus Christ

with one difference here from "eternal life" in Romans 2:7 presumably being (in bold)

1 Corinthians 15:51-53
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

assuming 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 is referring to the same event as Romans 2:7

 

[posthuman]

Did Jesus know Judas? Was Jesus speaking to the 12 in Matthew 19

Matthias was also present in Matthew 19 - -

Acts 1:20-22
"For it is written in the Book of Psalms: [' Let his dwelling place be] [desolate,] [And let no one live in it']; and, [' Let][another take his] [office.'] "Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."

Your Judas position on Matthew 19:28 makes Christ a liar.
There are legitimate interpretations of this passage that don't call Christ a liar, but you refuse to even entertain them.

It is evident that you would rather call Christ a liar than admit you are not correct about this.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Still looking for the specific words, "lost salvation."

You probably won't find these exact words. That's like saying I lost my car key when you only have a motorcycle.

 

[Runningman]

Matthias was also present in Matthew 19 - -

Acts 1:20-22
"For it is written in the Book of Psalms: [' Let his dwelling place be] [desolate,] [And let no one live in it']; and, [' Let][another take his] [office.'] "Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."

Your Judas position on Matthew 19:28 makes Christ a liar.
There are legitimate interpretations of this passage that don't call Christ a liar, but you refuse to even entertain them.

It is evident that you would rather call Christ a liar than admit you are not correct about this.

No you're the one who makes Christ a liar.
Matthias wasn't added until later. Now you must repent.

The 12 disciples were designated as the 12 apostles and they are as follow.

Luke 6
12One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. 13When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: 14Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, 15Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, 16Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

 

[Runningman]

You quote the Bible as a means of sustaining the false teaching of revocable world based salvation. That's abusing scripture so to promote a philosophical falsehood while thinking twisting scripture disguised the falsity and instead gives the otherwise false works based salvation teaching credibility for the mere fact scripture was thrown in to bolster it.

Anyone who thinks Christians are not eternally saved right now, and that salvation can be surrendered or lost, and is something people work to secure if worthy , and will learn if they were so after this life, is speaking from their own heart and consciousness.

They're not speaking the Gospel truth. Twisting scripture doesn't change that.


You must ignore scriptures in order to promote such falsity while twisting scripture.

The verses I showed you show eternal life is conditional and is something received in the age to come. Rather than just post your commentary, show me verses that support your position please.

 

[HeIsHere]

I’m genuinely surprised at some people here, so far off base,

..... quite ironic


Eternal life which has he connotation of "quality of life" is a present possession for those who believe/trust in Jesus for salvation.

John 3:36 says, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

Everlasting life is a present-tense possession the Greek verbiage makes this clear, Koine Greek because of its precision is the perfect language to impart these timeless truths.

There are a number of scriptures that speak of everlasting life as something we possess in this life (John 4:14; 5:24; 6:27; 6:40, 47).
God broke the chain of sin and death for this life and the next that is the whole point.

You keep backing yourself into a corner and your theology moves further and further into the realm of psuedo Catholicism it seems like.