Do you observe the Sabbath?

[Inquisitor]

The Bible says many things save someone. I think there’s only one verse that says you’re saved by grace, the rest of the Bible says saved by something else. Of course, they’re all correct, but I think since it says so many different avenues whereby being saved comes, we should take them all into account.

There is no “grace alone” idea in the Bible. People like to hang their hat on the idea of grace, walk away, and call it complete. I think it just enables them to ignore all of the other things that save.

Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, since otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Galatians 1:6
I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel

 

[Inquisitor]

I can't say that I have the faith that would obey God in sacrificing his only son, (if I had a child), BUT I have the same faith he had to get saved.
Abraham was saved decades before he took Isaac up that mountain. He certainly gave the gospel message of the O.T. in that demonstration of offering his only begotten son. He exercised saving faith long before his hundredth birthday. He demonstrated that he was a friend of God when he carried out that command in obedience. That's what James 2 is about.

Abraham never sacrificed his own son, the type, but The Father did sacrifice His own Son, fulfillment.

 

[Inquisitor]

The Bible says many things save someone. I think there’s only one verse that says you’re saved by grace, the rest of the Bible says saved by something else. Of course, they’re all correct, but I think since it says so many different avenues whereby being saved comes, we should take them all into account.

There is no “grace alone” idea in the Bible. People like to hang their hat on the idea of grace, walk away, and call it complete. I think it just enables them to ignore all of the other things that save.

Galatians 2:21
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our wrongdoings, according to the riches of His grace.

Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Titus 3:7
So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Inquisitor]

I've got an idea, let's all build altars and start offering sacrifices again. Would that satisfy all the Hebrew/Jewish roots people?

"Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" Acts 15:10

We also need to strictly obey the law and start stoning the sinners.

That's the real power of the law.

 

[TMS]

Anyone who calls on the name of Jesus will be saved.

The end of the gospel.

That contradicts Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[TMS]

Verse 1 was The Just shall live by faith.
Verse 2 Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

This shows that Paul in Rom 1:17 was quoting the old Testament. The just shall live by faith is a principle for all time. From Able to the end. As the Heb 11 chapter shows..

Verse 3
Heb 11:5-6 KJV 5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Enoch was translated because he walked with God, and had the testimony that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please God.
Does this contradict itself?
No it proves my point.

We can do nothing that pleases God without faith. Faith is essential to meet the approval of God.
Without faith the best deeds that we can do will not meet the perfect righteous standard of God.
Having faith in Jesus's ability to take away our sin is wonderful but faith should be exercised and grow.

 

[TMS]

I've got an idea, let's all build altars and start offering sacrifices again. Would that satisfy all the Hebrew/Jewish roots people?

You can do it if you want.
I believe that Jesus fulfilled the cerimonial laws. I trust in the blood of Jesus not the blood of goats and lambs.

The weekly sabbath was not part of the cerimonial laws and was introduced at creation. Jesus's death and resurrection did not change the weekly sabbath. Just like it did not change the other 9 commandments.

 

[TMS]

The Sabbath is the 7th day of the week, which is Saturday NOT Sunday. The Sabbath is for all not just for Jews. If you are a follower of Christ/Christian then you are supposed to observe the Sabbath day, it is a COMMANDMENT!

Exodus 20:8-11 KJV
[8] “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. [9] Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: [10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: [11] For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.”

You are not supposed to do your pleasures on the sabbath day or work which includes cooking, cleaning, buying and selling, partying, watching tv, listening to worldly music and even having your own conversations. You’re supposed to have a holy convocation which means going to church. You’re focus is supposed to be on the Lord, he only ask for one day!
“As his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.” Luke 4:16
“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever.” Hebrews 13:8

Amen

 

[Inquisitor]

That contradicts Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Are you calling Paul a liar? Based on your interpretation of Matthew 7:20-23?

 

[Inquisitor]

You can do it if you want.
I believe that Jesus fulfilled the cerimonial laws. I trust in the blood of Jesus not the blood of goats and lambs.

The weekly sabbath was not part of the cerimonial laws and was introduced at creation. Jesus's death and resurrection did not change the weekly sabbath. Just like it did not change the other 9 commandments.

Your also saying that Jesus did not fulfill the law.

 

[Inquisitor]

Verse 1 was The Just shall live by faith.
Verse 2 Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

This shows that Paul in Rom 1:17 was quoting the old Testament. The just shall live by faith is a principle for all time. From Able to the end. As the Heb 11 chapter shows..

Verse 3
Heb 11:5-6 KJV 5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Enoch was translated because he walked with God, and had the testimony that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please God.
Does this contradict itself?
No it proves my point.

We can do nothing that pleases God without faith. Faith is essential to meet the approval of God.
Without faith the best deeds that we can do will not meet the perfect righteous standard of God.
Having faith in Jesus's ability to take away our sin is wonderful but faith should be exercised and grow.

You left out the word 'grace'. Hence, by grace you are saved through faith and that is not from you.

If salvation is delivered by grace, then there is nothing you can do to alter that, except to believe God's promise.

By the way TMS, how does your church define the word 'grace'?

 

[mailmandan]

Are the bible veses below controdicting themselves?

No.

Jas 2:19-22
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Now "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith, which would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus's death and resurrection did not change the weekly sabbath. Just like it did not change the other 9 commandments.

Nothing has changed, huh? So Paul was just wasting his breath in 2 Corinthians 3:6-9 and Colossians 2:16-17? So the weekly sabbath is still in full force and it's commanded for Christians today? To "keep the sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the old covenant of law involved compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

With sabbath day observances there were burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath. (Exodus 35:3) Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath. (Exodus 16:29) No trading. (Amos 8:5) No marketing. (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19)

Sabbath keeping was commanded by God to Israel. (Exodus 20:2; 31:16-17; 35:1-3; Deuteronomy 5:15)

If keeping the sabbath day is still in affect today, then why dom't sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the Lord has commanded? How can someone keep a certain law when they only keep part of it? If the sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Who is going to enforce that at your church? Are you sure that you are keeping the sabbath day? We find our "sabbatismos" rest in Christ (Hebrews 4:9) in contrast with keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.

 

[mailmandan]

Folk across the Christian spectrum, do not understand that by grace, through the instrument of faith, that we are saved. They cannot comprehend fully, that salvation is a free gift from God.

They constantly weave the belief in Jesus and works together, in order to achieve salvation.

Here is a simple verse below, that anyone who thinks their works contribute to their salvation. Will not be able to accept without adding something to the verse.

Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

I've heard many people over the years claim they agree with salvation by grace through faith and not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) but then turn around and end up trying to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith. Some will try to "get around" Ephesians 2:8,9 by saying that we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. Others will say that we are "initially" saved by grace through faith, not works, but still ultimately saved by works. I call that "type 2 works salvation" or "back door works salvation." I've heard it all.

 

[ItsAdventageous]

We also need to strictly obey the law and start stoning the sinners.

That's the real power of the law.

Hmmm, intersting that you bring that up.

I heard a preacher on this subject before.

 

[Ted01]

Now "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith, which would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

Very well explained!!

 

[Moses_Young]

The Sabbath is the 7th day of the week, which is Saturday NOT Sunday. The Sabbath is for all not just for Jews. If you are a follower of Christ/Christian then you are supposed to observe the Sabbath day, it is a COMMANDMENT!

I hope you're being consistent, and ensuring all the males in your household are circumcised. After all, circumcision is a commandment - an everlasting covenant, no less. One which the Sabbath could even be broken to keep.

Genesis 17:13 - 14 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

 

[Underwhosewings]

Wow what a topic. 59 pages!
No I didn’t read it.
Do I observe the Sabbath?
Hebrews chapter 4
I have entered God’s rest.
Also we have a day of fellowship,
(1 Corinthians 11:25 KJV
… This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.)
the Lord’s Day suits those who are well and able,
(and currently permitted by the government 😊, the world is changing fast.)
But watch out for these…..
Matthew 23:4-5 KJV
For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. [5] But all their works they do for to be seen of men:…

(Acts 15:24 KJV
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment

And there is so much more …

We are not without the law…
Let all things be done decently and in order…

 

[Underwhosewings]

Wow what a topic. 59 pages!
No I didn’t read it.
Do I observe the Sabbath?
Hebrews chapter 4
I have entered God’s rest.
Also we have a day of fellowship,
(1 Corinthians 11:25 KJV
… This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.)
the Lord’s Day suits those who are well and able,
(and currently permitted by the government 😊, the world is changing fast.)
But watch out for these…..
Matthew 23:4-5 KJV
For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. [5] But all their works they do for to be seen of men:…

(Acts 15:24 KJV
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment)

And there is so much more …

We are not without the law…
Let all things be done decently and in order…

 

[mailmandan]

For those of you who believe that nothing has changed from the old covenant of law to the new covenant in regards to the 10 commandments (including the 4th commandment) had better get busy enforcing the law. Good luck with that!

Exodus 21:15 - And he who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 21:17 - And he who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 22:19 - Whoever lies with an animal shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 22:20 - He who sacrifices to any god, except to the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
Exodus 31:15 - Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does anywork on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Leviticus 20:10 - The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.
Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.
Leviticus 24:16 - And whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall certainly stone him, the stranger as well as him who is born in the land. When he blasphemes the name of the Lord, he shall be put to death.