Technological Signs relating to Christ’s Coming are being fulfilled.

[GaryA]

Biased question, you lack an open mind.

It is not biased - you lack the willingness to give a straight-forward answer to a straight-forward question.

Never good we must always test our understanding, always.

I do it often.

Do you really think you can understand the Book of Revelation in a literal manner?

Some "parts of" and "things in" Revelation are to be understood as literal - other parts of it are not.

 

[cv5]

There is no Israel in this world of ours today. That kingdom was fulfilled in the 1st Century or thereabouts when Jesus came to the earth.

And there we have the admission that I was looking for. That is why I asked specific questions. Truth be told, sometimes getting a definitive admission from a preterist is like pulling teeth.

As to the rest of my requests.....I realize that they cannot be fulfilled, as requisite knowledge and sincere laboring is required before doing so.

Is it ALWAYS a dodge, a hustle, shucking and jiving, misdirection and a non-answer from the preterists? Because I see it all too often.

 

[GaryA]

Do you think the Book of Revelation can be understood literally on all points?

Only some of it. But, not all of it.

Or is figurative language often employed?

Only some of it. But, not all of it.

Would you agree that ancient culture was very different than we are in 21st century and that their expressive language style needs to be understood within that culture not ours?

This is part of what I mean by the 'grammar of the language'.

And, there are two [other] language cultures to consider - the original Greek or Hebrew language - and - the translation language at the time it was translated.

 

[GaryA]

There was a mark.

Was it placed in the right hand or forehead according to the detail of biblical prophecy?

 

[GaryA]

@cv5 - he is correct about Israel.

The Israel that exists today is not "true Israel" (as a nation) from a biblical point of view - it will not exist until after the Second Coming of Christ.

Many people think the 'dry bones' prophecy was fulfilled in 1948/1967. It was not. Jesus Himself will fulfill it when He comes.

 

[HeIsHere]

I tend to be that way myself...

(The last thing I would want to do is promote something that is in error.)


Me either...

(None of us knows it all - it would be useless to make such a claim.)


If you were paying enough attention, you would realize by now that there are things we agree on ("this generation" is one of them) - yet, you seem to respond as if we disagree on absolutely everything. Why is that?

(If I ask you a question so that I may better understand your view - why do you not simply tell me what you believe instead of reacting defensively.)

Okay, I will be less defensive, I apologize, I just cannot understand how people can just deny the words of Christ Jesus.

 

[cv5]

I went back and read the OP again to see how the nation of Israel was actually particularly-and-specifically included...

Then, I noticed these statements - which I no-doubt read before but "looked past" because I was more interested in the rest of the OP:

Just for the record...


This is incorrect. The Day of the Lord refers to the Second Coming of Christ (and, in some contexts, the Millenium). The "Great Tribulation" ends well before that.


This is also incorrect. There is no 7-year 'prophetic' End Times period. It is not in the Bible anywhere.

But you have as of yet failed to prove your claims bro. Therefore the futurists win by default.

BTW, IMO the DOTL actually begins at the point in time of The Lamb taking the scroll from the Father (before even opening a single seal). As you will notice, the Church (the 24 Elders) are already in heaven (a prerequisite condition before the 70th week), having been raptured in Rev 4, and will enjoy their promised (John 14:2-3) 7 year honeymoon with their Husband. Therefore the Church Age is over. Then and only then does the judgement upon the earth dwellers commence. And the 70th week lasts.....seven years. Precisely. See Dan 12.

Rev 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7
And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

2Th 1:7
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[cv5]

@cv5 - he is correct about Israel.

The Israel that exists today is not "true Israel" (as a nation) from a biblical point of view - it will not exist until after the Second Coming of Christ.

Many people think the 'dry bones' prophecy was fulfilled in 1948/1967. It was not. Jesus Himself will fulfill it when He comes.

Agree with you to an extent there bro. The Israel of today is indeed secular. But it is a real Nation nevertheless. But not yet having achieved their ultimate, glorious potential in terms of God's blessed redemption.

But....they are here "pre-gathered" for the God's prophetic purposes.

Agree with you re: dry bones prophecy as well.....

 

[HeIsHere]

Do you not believe that 'God does not lie' and that what He says will happen will happen exactly as He says it will???


You might be surprised at just how much you do that - perhaps, without realizing it, of course.

Where?

 

[pablocito]

And there we have the admission that I was looking for. That is why I asked specific questions. Truth be told, sometimes getting a definitive admission from a preterist is like pulling teeth.

As to the rest of my requests.....I realize that they cannot be fulfilled, as requisite knowledge and sincere laboring is required before doing so.

Is it ALWAYS a dodge, a hustle, shucking and jiving, misdirection and a non-answer from the preterists? Because I see it all too often.

I am not a preterist, as those are just man made terms. Just like Trinity, there are scores of man-made concocted definitions.

God cannot be put in a box and thus we should never use any word that is not explicitly stated in the bible. God is perfect and when he created this world, he already knew the end from the beginning and thus put all relevant words and definitions in the bible and those who would add to them or take away from them, their names will be stricken out of the book of life.

Be careful as to how you introduce not just ideas, but also words into the word of God, as God is perfect and you cannot make the bible more understandable by adding your own words etc. He already did it all.

 

[Fillan]

And....they are. Israel existing at all, right now, quashes the pretentions of the amillentialists and preterists into oblivion IMO.

I agree. I you consider the number of prophecies in the bible about a physical return or the Jews to Israel and then combine this with the unique nature historically speaking of a nation returning after 2,000 years in exile then the return of Israel is hugely significant. A sign from God. God Bless You

 

[iamsoandso]

Do you think the Book of Revelation can be understood literally on all points?

Or is figurative language often employed?

Would you agree that ancient culture was very different than we are in 21st century and that their expressive language style needs to be understood within that culture not ours?

Please don't think I'm singling you out I don't know how many times I've been ask this in my life. It baffles me when anyone ask me this because it's worded real similar in that it's always ask about the book of Revelation being literal verses figurative,spiritual ect. and not other books like Daniel for example. I also do agree that culture in aspect of the intended meaning is very important to keep in mind, Matthew 24:3 I think throws a many for a loop because of it.

But back to The Revelation and seeing it literal or figurative. We should all ask our own self first how we think the Lord is meaning it but this is what I noticed. In Daniel there are various figurative beast that the angel explained to be kingdoms that would rule one after the other. I now know that Babylon,M/Persia,Greece and Rome were the kingdoms that were figuratively spoken of but, I also notice that Babylon although described figuratively in Scripture was fulfilled literally. That is in the prophecy Babylon did literally take Judah into captivity and although figuratively depicted as an mans head of gold it was also literal in the earths history and literally existed in it's fulfillment's. The others I notice although figuratively depicted also were literal in existence and that Persia,Greece and Rome literally existed in fulfillment of prophecy.

I think most would consider the Flood as literal and not figurative, that is most would say to me I think that the flood really in time took place. If ask most would agree God literally called Abraham out of Ur. When Israel went into captivity in Egypt I think it was literal and the plagues in Egypt I see as literal. I cant think of anything in prophecy not literal. I think God literally destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and the Red Sea literally parted. I literally believe that they held my Lords hands and feet and hammered nails into them. I believe they literally beat our Lord, spit on him and looked upon his bones and also cast lots for his clothes. There were other things I think were literally fulfilled such as these https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm 22&version=KJV Anyway why would God the almighty tell us from the beginning of time the things that would come to pass https://biblehub.com/isaiah/46-10.htm for us to literally see unfold in time and then after he has us trusting that he literally fulfills prophecy as he states in the Revelation completely change when he has our trust and not fulfill them literally as he has always done?

Literal and figurative I notice is as if an get out of Jail free card used whenever one is not sure how to get from point A to B in eschatological debates? lol,,,(here's a more light heart-ted approach)..... Screen name one,,,"in this generation" is literal not figurative",,,,Screen name two "no it's an generation,could be anywhere in the future when those things take place"...,Did you notice that preterite's see Revelation figurative but in this case generation is literal and that futurist who argue Revelation will unfold literally sees it in figurative usage?

In short though in almost every dialog I've had with an preterite about the prophecies in the Revelation they contend that it was fulfilled already(usually by ad70) in some literal manner. They literally see things like Jerusalem being surrounded by armies as literally fulfilled do they not? In this Generation,,,every stone upon another,,,everything in the Revelation is in general argued by the preterite literally fulfilled by ad70 if I take notice that is. Anyway the preterite contends Revelation to be literally fulfilled by ad70 and the futurist contends it to be fulfilled at some latter time but both argue it's literal fulfillment's,,,,just at two different points in time....

 

[iamsoandso]

There was a mark.

Literally or figuratively?

 

[iamsoandso]

@cv5 - he is correct about Israel.

The Israel that exists today is not "true Israel" (as a nation) from a biblical point of view - it will not exist until after the Second Coming of Christ.

Many people think the 'dry bones' prophecy was fulfilled in 1948/1967. It was not. Jesus Himself will fulfill it when He comes.

In Revelation 13 though there is an head that is slain unto death that in Rev. 13:6 blasphemes his name, his tabernacle and those who dwell in heaven,,,does it say it's the real Israel when it's really not and the tabernacle? In Revelation 13:14 does it not deceive those dwelling on the earth by telling them that they should make an image of the beast that was slain?

 

[cv5]

I am not a preterist, as those are just man made terms. Just like Trinity, there are scores of man-made concocted definitions.

God cannot be put in a box and thus we should never use any word that is not explicitly stated in the bible. God is perfect and when he created this world, he already knew the end from the beginning and thus put all relevant words and definitions in the bible and those who would add to them or take away from them, their names will be stricken out of the book of life.

Be careful as to how you introduce not just ideas, but also words into the word of God, as God is perfect and you cannot make the bible more understandable by adding your own words etc. He already did it all.

The only reason I use the terms "preterist" or "amillenialist" is for the sake of expediency, in order to quickly confirm or deny whether someone believes in the end time FUTURE promised redemption of the nation Israel.......or not.

Frankly, I do not like these buzzwords either.

 

[HeIsHere]

Literally or figuratively?

I think it is important when analyzing a text to decide whether it is abstract and whether it is reality.

Figurative language is just a different way of describing a reality using comparison.

The language can be symbolic in the Book of Revelation, which is different than figurative.

If we do not respect the symbolism and its meaning to the first century reader we will make a mess of understanding the book.

Would you agree?

 

[HeIsHere]

What you don't have is evidence that supports your position, which itself is undefined.
I do not see you posting Scriptures and valid support arguments, therefore you have lost your case.

The futurists have won in a landslide based on VAST overwhelming evidence.

Sorry have to put you back on ignore. Busy elsewhere.

Sad you treat scripture like a sport to see who wins by a "landslide" Very sad indeed.

As with all sports enthusiasts it is about an emotional attachment to a team.

 

[iamsoandso]

I think it is important when analyzing a text to decide whether it is abstract and whether it is reality.

Figurative language is just a different way of describing a reality using comparison.

The language can be symbolic in the Book of Revelation, which is different than figurative.

If we do not respect the symbolism and its meaning to the first century reader we will make a mess of understanding the book.

Would you agree?

It will be tomorrow before I will be able to post(things I have to do),,,

Until then though in Revelation 13:15 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/13-15.htm there are two distinct groups of people..

One group worships the image and so is both deceived and spiritually dead.
The second group does not worship the image and seemingly is not deceived nor spiritually dead...

Now if the ones who do not worship the image are not spiritually dead then are they literally killed?

 

[HeIsHere]

Some "parts of" and "things in" Revelation are to be understood as literal - other parts of it are not.

It in not about being literal, the book employs symbols. It is the meaning of the symbols that need to be understood.

 

[Beckie]

I agree. I you consider the number of prophecies in the bible about a physical return or the Jews to Israel and then combine this with the unique nature historically speaking of a nation returning after 2,000 years in exile then the return of Israel is hugely significant. A sign from God. God Bless You

Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.