Hell, Sheol, Hades...

[Magenta]

This is sound like annihilation?

Annihilation is not a Scriptural term when it comes to death, except in Esther 4:8

He also gave him a copy of the text of the edict for their annihilation, which had been
published in Susa, to show to Esther and explain it to her, and he told him to instruct
her to go into the king’s presence to beg for mercy and plead with him for her people.

I prefer the term perish That is used many times.

Scripture does teach that life ever after is granted to those who by grace through faith
believe in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ for the propitiation of their sin/s.
Those who believe put on the imperishable. Those who remain perishable, perish.

From 1 Corinthians 15:50-54

 

[Cameron143]

I asked questions in an attempt to discover what you believe on this issue

I spent many years speaking to non-believers before joining CC. I was also a non-believer until I was
almost fifty, so I am very well acquainted with how non-believers think and what they believe and their
attitudes towards those who believe in God. I just cannot give many of their ideas much credibility,
and really don't think other Christians should, either. It seems a poor argument to make, you know,
to say, non-believers get what they want if they pass out of life into the second death as Scripture
states. It is not what they want at all. I would contend that people want life, and that more abundantly,
but most do not know how to have that, and actually reject the solution to their impediments as part
and parcel along with their rejection of God.

It's probably when evangelizing not a good idea to lead with the negative effects of sin and death. And we should evaluate each person and be led of the Spirit how to deliver the gospel, but the gospel has built into the love of God. After all, it is good news.
Personally I believe eternal justice only works if it has a giver and a receiver, much as in eternal life.

 

[Magenta]

It's probably when evangelizing not a good idea to lead with the negative effects of sin and death. And we should evaluate each person and be led of the Spirit how to deliver the gospel, but the gospel has built into the love of God. After all, it is good news.
Personally I believe eternal justice only works if it has a giver and a receiver, much as in eternal life.

I don't to the first. And I do to the second.

Consider that Paul told us to follow his example, assuring us he had given us the full council
of God straight from Jesus. Paul said we should do as he did, and how many times in all his
books (28% of the NT) did he preach eternal conscious torment via hellfire damnation? Did he
ever even use the word hell? No, he did not. Paul, who claimed he was caught up into heaven
and given the Gospel directly by Jesus, that all men would be judged according to his gospel,
that he had declared to people the whole counsel of God, that he kept back nothing profitable
from the people he taught, and that he was the apostle to the gentiles... never once used the
word hell. Paul uses the Greek word "Hades" in 1 Corinthians 15:55, where it is translated "grave."
(KJV) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? In Galatians 1:8, he says: But
though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which
we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

[John146]

Annihilation is not a Scriptural term when it comes to death, except in Esther 4:8

He also gave him a copy of the text of the edict for their annihilation, which had been
published in Susa, to show to Esther and explain it to her, and he told him to instruct
her to go into the king’s presence to beg for mercy and plead with him for her people.

I prefer the term perish That is used many times.

Scripture does teach that life ever after is granted to those who by grace through faith
believe in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ for the propitiation of their sin/s.
Those who believe put on the imperishable. Those who remain perishable, perish.

From 1 Corinthians 15:50-54

The bible actually says...

8 Also he gave him the copy of the writing of the decree that was given at Shushan to destroy them, to shew it unto Esther, and to declare it unto her, and to charge her that she should go in unto the king, to make supplication unto him, and to make request before him for her people.

 

[oyster67]

I cannot help but sense that some Christians derive some self satisfaction imagining the most vile

Do you really think that this is where I'm coming from?

the same fate awaits even the most innocuous person who has not come to faith.

No "innocuous" person will go to eternal damnation. That is not God's nature. Scripture is clear about that.
Romans 1:20
“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”

Jesus loved the innocent children.
Luke 17:2
“It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.”

See how that works? Doesn't sound like being "poofed" out of existence to me.

Matthew 26:24
“The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.”

 

[Magenta]

The bible actually says...

8 Also he gave him the copy of the writing of the decree that was given at Shushan to destroy them, to shew it unto Esther, and to declare it unto her, and to charge her that she should go in unto the king, to make supplication unto him, and to make request before him for her people.

Actually it depends on the translation, you are KJV right? Obviously I did not quote the king James version.

 

[Magenta]

Which just proves my point, which is that generally speaking, it is not a biblical term, and that is why I don't use it.

 

[oyster67]

Why does the idea of ceasing to exist trouble so many people?

Because it is a lie. It is the same tactic that Satan used on Eve in the Garden. "Don't worry, there is no consequence associated with sin. There is nothing to be 'saved' from. God is just a happy guy that is there to service you and tickle you toes."

Jesus went to extreme measures to deliver us from dire consequences. That is why we call it "Salvation". Now you know.

 

[oyster67]

Some Christians say such things as, death is not
punishment, and death is nothing to fear. Both these attitudes fly in the face of what Scripture
actually says.

So true.

 

[oyster67]

Oh, everything has been made new except for over here we have the oven (lake of fire) where we watch people being tormented day and night, because this is how we see God's justice, mercy, and love operate.

That comes close to blasphemy. As your brother, it is my job to warn you. God does read these posts. With children like this, God doesn't need an adversary. Painting Him black is not what Father put us here for.

 

[oyster67]

"And, there must be some form of entertainment in the kingdom come, after all."

Not wise.

 

[HeIsHere]

Do you really think that this is where I'm coming from?

This was not a personal statement to anyone particular. So no I did think you or anyone here at all.

There have been a few people in my life that seemed to come close to this view, they were professing Christians that is all I can say.

Btw I see annihilationism as having a very flimsy foundation, so no I do not think it is the truth.

 

[oyster67]

And by the way, scripture never states that the saved will be watching those being tormented.

I didn't say it did.

No, it does not. It was you that said in in sarcasm.

Oh, everything has been made new except for over here we have the oven (lake of fire) where we watch people being tormented day and night, because this is how we see God's justice, mercy, and love operate.

When sarcasm becomes blasphemy, we need to check ourselves.

Where would you say is the lake of fire where the devil will be tormented day and night forever and ever?

I have no idea. I'm sure God knows

Yes, He does. "everything has been made new except for over here we have the oven".

 

[HeIsHere]

Which just proves my point, which is that generally speaking, it is not a biblical term, and that is why I don't use it.

I really cannot se what difference it makes when the word "perish" is redefined to mean annihilate.

 

[oyster67]

It's probably when evangelizing not a good idea to lead with the negative effects of sin and death. And we should evaluate each person and be led of the Spirit how to deliver the gospel, but the gospel has built into the love of God. After all, it is good news.
Personally I believe eternal justice only works if it has a giver and a receiver, much as in eternal life.

So we should present the Gospel as a way to "promotion" rather than "salvation"?
Not neccesary to warn them to flee from the wrath to come?
No need to bring up their sinful depravity?
No need to bring up why Jesus went to the cross?
Let's all Join the Joel Osteen Band !

 

[oyster67]

I really cannot se what difference it makes when the word "perish" is redefined to mean annihilate.

Every now and then I need to clean out the fridge. I wish all the perished goods would just "poof" away, but that's not how reality works.

 

[Magenta]

I really cannot se what difference it makes when the word "perish" is redefined to mean annihilate.

You redefine it to mean that, but they do not show up in each other's synonym list.
The difference it makes to me is whether or not it is a Biblical term. I care about that.

 

[Cameron143]

So we should present the Gospel as a way to "promotion" rather than "salvation"?
Not neccesary to warn them to flee from the wrath to come?
No need to bring up their sinful depravity?
No need to bring up why Jesus went to the cross?
Let's all Join the Joel Osteen Band!

I'm saying different situations require different tactics. This is true in all of life. So a one size fits all approach may yield some results but a one by one approach might yield greater results.
If Joel Osteen can rattle up the band I'll listen. If he's merely speaking I'll pass. Can he roust up the bow?

 

[oyster67]

The difference it makes to me is whether or not it is a Biblical term. I care about that.

If only we could be so concerned about Biblical facts.

 

[Magenta]

Btw I see annihilationism as having a very flimsy foundation, so no I do not think it is the truth.

Try using the right words. It matters.

Psalm 37:38
But transgressors will be altogether destroyed;
The posterity of the wicked will be cut off.

Proverbs 14:11
The house of the wicked will be destroyed,
But the tent of the upright will flourish.

Psalm 94:23
He has brought back their wickedness upon them
And will destroy them in their evil;
The Lord our God will destroy them.

Psalm 92:7
That when the wicked sprouted up like grass
And all who did iniquity flourished,
It was only that they might be destroyed forevermore.

Romans 9:22
What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power
known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

Philippians 3:19
whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose
glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.

2 Peter 2:12
But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed,
reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,

2 Peter 3:7
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire,
kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Jude 1:10
But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which
they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.

Galatians 6:8
The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction;
the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Philippians 1:28 and 3:18-19 teaches that non-believers will be destroyed.
Nevertheless, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ.
Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will
know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending side by side for the faith of
the gospel, without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you.
This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved—and that by God.

For as I have often told you before, and now say again even with tears:
Many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction...

2 Thessalonians 2:10
“They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.”

Matthew 18:14
Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luke 13:5
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

John 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that
whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Romans 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law:
and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

2 Corinthians 2:15
For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

2 Thessalonians 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because theyreceived not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering
to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Perish = Strong's Concordance #622 - apollumi

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apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly