Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

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HeIsHere

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I'm not so sure about that.
vv. 8 "So then they....
vv. 9 "But ye.....

The "they" in Hebrews 6 are unsaved. The "ye" are saved.
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Probably not, he is juxtaposing walking in the spirit and walking in the flesh, the choice every believer makes, of course this would not follow if you think God is perfecting the flesh which is the belief of the lordship salvation view.

I say the Romans were learning and Paul was teaching how to walk in the Spirit and how it benefits, plain and simple.
 

cv5

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This explains alot

we need to be born again because we are DEAD

we need to be born again because we are OUTsIDE of Gods family. And we need to be adopted, or born into Gods family

We need to be born again because of our sin debt to God. We are declared unworthy of his love

we need ot be born again because we are headed to hell. And will die the second death if we do are not justified of our debt and saved from Gods wrath
Heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Pro 7:15
Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee.

Mat 13:44
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

2Ch 7:14
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Hos 5:15
I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
 

cv5

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"The sovereign choice of the Father, by which He elected us unto eternal life, or ever the earth was, is a matter of vast antiquity, since no date can be conceived for it by the mind of man. We were chosen from before the foundations of the world. Everlasting love went with the choice, for it was not a bare act of divine will by which we were set apart, but the divine affections were concerned. The Father loved us in and from the beginning. Here is a theme for daily contemplation. The eternal purpose to redeem us from our foreseen ruin, to cleanse and sanctify us, and at last to glorify us, was of infinite antiquity, and runs side by side with immutable love and absolute sovereignty. "

-Spurgeon
 

cv5

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"The covenant is always described as being everlasting, and Jesus, the second party in it, had His goings forth of old; He struck hands in sacred suretyship long ere the first of the stars began to shine, and it was in Him that the elect were ordained unto eternal life. Thus in the divine purpose a most blessed covenant union was established between the Son of God and His elect people, which will remain as the foundation of their safety when time shall be no more."

-Spurgeon
 

cv5

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I admire peacemakers immensely...because they are in the precarious position of getting hit by things thrown from both sides of the fence.
Lol thanks buddy. You really seem like a nice gentle person with a good heart.
Too bad your eschatology is wackadoo. Maybe more study will correct that deficiency.

Historicism, a-mill and post-mill errant theories are all crumbling before your very eyes. In real time.......:unsure:
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Lol thanks buddy. You really seem like a nice gentle person with a good heart.
Too bad your eschatology is wackadoo. Maybe more study will correct that deficiency.

Historicism, a-mill and post-mill errant theories are all crumbling before your very eyes. In real time.......:unsure:
You wont win any souls by talking to people like this.
 

cv5

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You wont win any souls by talking to people like this.
Wow. Did you miss your morning coffee?
BTW....I assume that @Cameron143 is a saved soul.

As for a-mill post-mill and historicist views.....all that I am attempting to do is put out a dumpster fire.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Wow. Did you miss your morning coffee?
BTW....I assume that @Cameron143 is a saved soul.

As for a-mill post-mill and historicist views.....all that I am attempting to do is put out a dumpster fire.
you still will not win any souls. Any more then they will win any souls by attacking you in that way. it makes you sound self righteous..
 

Cameron143

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Lol thanks buddy. You really seem like a nice gentle person with a good heart.
Too bad your eschatology is wackadoo. Maybe more study will correct that deficiency.

Historicism, a-mill and post-mill errant theories are all crumbling before your very eyes. In real time.......:unsure:
We'll see. Have you developed a taste for crow?
 

cv5

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you still will not win any souls. Any more then they will win any souls by attacking you in that way. it makes you sound self righteous..
Oh no.....you've got me all wrong. This is not about "winning souls" because I assume they have already been won. This is about exhorting them to brush up on their eschatology/prophecy. @TheDivineWatermark is the go-to guy with all the right answers on this topic. I have yet to see anything from anybody that puts the slightest dent in pre-trib premillennial doctrine.
 

cv5

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He's fine. I'm never bothered personally by other's comments. We do see some things differently but are developing common ground.
Well....not so much as regards eschatology/prophecy. Things are not prophesied to "get better" as you (and the historicists) believe.
In fact Jesus says that the DOTL (Rev 6 seals) will begin with devastating abruptness for the earth dwellers.

G5618 - hōsper - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)

"just as, i.e. exactly like:"

Mat 24:37
But as G5618 the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38
For as G5618 in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Furthermore, Jesus says that judgement will come "like a thief in the night" to the unwary.

Anyways....I do not want to disrupt the thread, so I will try and refrain from this topic.
 
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Saint Augustine of Hippo [354-430 AD]"In this redemption, the blood of Christ was given, as it were as a price for us, by accepting which the devil was not enriched, but bound: that we might be loosened from his bonds, and that he might not with himself involve [us] in the meshes of sins, and so deliver to the destruction of the second and eternal death, any one of those whom Christ, free from all debt, had redeemed by pouring out his own blood unindebtedly; but that they who belong to the grace of Christ, foreknown, and predestinated, and elected before the foundation of the world, should only so far die as Christ Himself died for them, i.e. only by the death of the flesh, not of the spirit." Augustine, On the Trinity XIII:xv:19, trans. Arthur West Haddan, in A Select Library of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church, First Series, ed. Philip Schaff, vol. 3 (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, repr. 1988), p. 178 https://cprc.co.uk/articles/covenant3/

The Canons of the Council of Orange 529 AD
CANON 3. If anyone says that the grace of God can be conferred as a result of human prayer, but that it is not grace itself which makes us pray to God, he contradicts the prophet Isaiah, or the Apostle who says the same thing, "I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me" (Rom 10:20, quoting Isa. 65:1).
CANON 4. If anyone maintains that God awaits our will to be cleansed from sin, but does not confess that even our will to be cleansed comes to us through the infusion and working of the Holy Spirit, he resists the Holy Spirit himself who says through Solomon, "The will is prepared by the Lord" (Prov. 8:35, LXX), and the salutary word of the Apostle, "For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).


"Gottschalk of Orbais [803-868 AD] was the first, since the council of Orange (529), to apply so consistently the principles of later Augustine. He taught that God predestined both the elect to eternal life and the reprobate to eternal death. Several centuries would be needed until Thomas Bradwardine (c. 1290-1349), Gregory of Rimini (d. 1358) and John Wycliffe (c. 1330-1384) could voice the same ideas. Gottschalk’s life, rich in dramatic events, is an integral part of the cultural and political life of Germany, France, Italy and Croatia at the dawn of their history. However, Gottschalk of Orbais still remains in the shadow of his more famous contemporaries. Indeed, if a bibliography of the works that treat on Gottschalk is rather large, it can hardly be said that his life and teaching are thoroughly researched." http://gottschalk.inrebus.com/intro.html
See also: https://www.kerux.com/doc/2203A4.asp

Also: "All those impious persons and sinners for whom the Son of God came to redeem by shedding his own blood, those the omnipotent goodness of God predestined to life and irrevocably willed only those to be saved. And again all those impious persons and sinners for whom likewise the Son of God neither assumed a body nor prayed, I say that he did not shed [his] blood nor was in any way crucified for them. In fact, those whom he foreknew were going to be very evil and whom he very justly foreordained unto eternal torments into which they should be cast, he thoroughly does not want them in any way to be eternally saved.
Therefore, I very faithfully believe, very confidently speak, and likewise most certainly and fruitfully confess and most truthfully profess that our omnipotent God, the creator and maker of all creatures, has deigned to be the gratuitous repairer and restorer of all of the elect alone, but willed to be the Savior of none of the perpetually reprobate, the redeemer of none, and glorifier of none." https://prisonerofjoy-kirk.blogspot.com/2014/08/all-those-impious-persons-and-sinners.html

Martin Luther [1483-1546] Bondage of the Will: Sect. 101 - "What do I hear! Are we now inquiring whether or not God loves and hates, and not rather why He loves and hates? Our inquiry is, from what merit it is in us that He loves or hates. We know well enough, that God does not love or hate as we do; because, we love and hate mutably, but He loves and hates from an eternal and immutable nature; and hence it is, that accidents and passions do not pertain unto Him.

And it is this very state of the truth, that of necessity proves "Free-will" to be nothing at all; seeing that, the love and hatred of God towards men is immutable and eternal; existing, not only before there was any merit or work of "Free-will," but before the worlds were made; and that, all things take place in us from necessity, accordingly as He loved or loved not from all eternity. So that, not the love of God only, but even the manner of His love imposes on us necessity. Here then it may be seen, how much its invented ways of escape profit the Diatribe; for the more it attempts to get away from the truth, the more it runs upon it; with so little success does it fight against it!"
https://www.truecovenanter.com/truelutheran/luther_bow.html#pt2

John Calvin [1509-1564 AD] Institutes of the Christian Religion definitive edition published in 1559.

Canons of Dort [1618-1619] Second Head, Article 8 - "For this was the sovereign counsel, and most gracious will and purpose of God the Father, that the quickening and saving efficacy of the most precious death of His Son should extend to all the elect, for bestowing upon them alone the gift of justifying faith, thereby to bring them infallibly to salvation: that is, it was the will of God, that Christ by the blood of the cross, whereby He confirmed the new covenant, should effectually redeem out of every people, tribe, nation, and language, all those, and those only, who were from eternity chosen to salvation and given to Him by the Father; that He should confer upon them faith, which together with all the other saving gifts of the Holy Spirit, He purchased for them by His death; should purge them from all sin, both original and actual, whether committed before or after believing; and having faithfully preserved them even to the end, should at last bring them free from every spot and blemish to the enjoyment of glory in His own presence forever." https://prts.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Canons-of-Dort-with-Intro.pdf
Saint Augustine of Hippo [354-430 AD…1 Pet…”18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ….”
AND Rev 13…”8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world…”
Christ shed His blood BEFORE the foundation of the world!

The Canons of the Council of Orange 529 AD…
"I have been found by those who did not seek me;”…
Because messengers (Paul, Luke, etc.) were SENT.
“For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure”…
Paul was addressing SAINTS in Phillipi.

Gottschalk of Orbais [803-868 AD]…”taught that God predestined both the elect to eternal life and the reprobate to eternal death.” From Rom 9:…”21 Or does the potter not have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one object for honorable use, and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction?”
Totally ignores the hypothetical (“if”).
https://prisonerofjoy-kirk.blogspot.com/2014/08/all-those-impious-persons-and-sinners.html

Not in the Bible…entirely unsubstantiated opinion.

Martin Luther [1483-1546…”proves "Free-will" to be nothing at all; seeing that, the love and hatred of God towards men is immutable…”
Oh?
Really?
“The term repent at its root means “to change one’s mind.” To repent of sin means to change your mind about sin.”

Num 23…”19 God is not man, that he should lie,
or a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Has he said, and will he not do it?
Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?”

Jonah 3…”10 When God saw their deeds, that they turned from their evil way, then God relented of the disaster which He had declared He would bring on them. So He did not do it.”
Immutable will of God is NOT A BIBLICAL EXPRESSION.

John Calvin [1509-1564 AD] Institutes of the Christian Religion definitive edition published in 1559…”bestowing upon them alone the gift of justifying faith…”
Toss your Bible. Throw it away, because you’ll NEVER have “faith” unless God miraculously, prejudicially creats faith within you!!
Really. Where does it say that?
In Jn 6? “28 Therefore they said to Him, ‘What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?’ 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
Instead of acknowledging that Jesus actually answered their question by telling them that “Faith” is the work that THEY CAN DO to do the “work” that God REQUIRES, Calvin, Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, and a lot of others insist that Jesus totally ignored them and said that “faith” is something only God can do, and you won’t have it unless God miraculously endows you with it.
Faith?
Totally wrong.
Rom 10…”17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.”
Deny it at your own peril
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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Oh no.....you've got me all wrong. This is not about "winning souls" because I assume they have already been won. This is about exhorting them to brush up on their eschatology/prophecy. @TheDivineWatermark is the go-to guy with all the right answers on this topic. I have yet to see anything from anybody that puts the slightest dent in pre-trib premillennial doctrine.
when I say win any soul. I mean you will not win them over to your view. no matter what doctrine it is.,
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Well....not so much as regards eschatology/prophecy. Things are not prophesied to "get better" as you (and the historicists) believe.
In fact Jesus says that the DOTL (Rev 6 seals) will begin with devastating abruptness for the earth dwellers.

G5618 - hōsper - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)

"just as, i.e. exactly like:"

Mat 24:37
But as G5618 the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38
For as G5618 in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Furthermore, Jesus says that judgement will come "like a thief in the night" to the unwary.

Anyways....I do not want to disrupt the thread, so I will try and refrain from this topic.
Try as you may I'll continue to believe that Jesus is and will continue to destroy the works of the devil.