Salvation is for the Whole World

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Dec 21, 2020
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[Eph 1:11 KJV] 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Christianity was predestined, not individual Christians.

God wants everyone to be saved (1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9).
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
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we tend to measure God, if measure is the correct word, by our standards. When we give a gift we are hurt sadened
A gift we either accept or reject .:D
Salvation is not like a Christmas gift exchange where folks are on a horizontal plain.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Deut 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
Yes, and Israel didn't observe.

[Eze 20:25 KJV] 25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes [that were] not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Jesus' Words in John 6:65
:)
"given" not "enabled."

[Jhn 6:65-66 KJV] 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66
From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Deut 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
But no one could. That's the point.
Thus, another way must be considered.
Abraham saw my day Jesus said and rejoiced. Why? Because, knowing he wasn't righteous, he was still accepted.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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"given" not "enabled."

[Jhn 6:65-66 KJV] 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66
From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Are you now claiming God does not enable us???

And that if one rejects His gift of salvation, they do not suffer the second death???

New International Version
He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Christianity was predestined, not individual Christians.

God wants everyone to be saved (1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9).
Nope. Regarding 1 Tim 2:4, to understand the "all" we need to look further. The "all" are all the Father gave to Christ which cannot be more than those the Father gave to Christ, of whom must become saved.

[Jhn 6:39 KJV] 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

[Jhn 6:65-66 KJV] 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66
From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Regarding Pet 3:9, you need to determine who the "us-ward" are. To do that look at 2 Pet 1:1. Peter is speaking to, and has in
mind, only the elect as being the "us-ward".

[2Pe 1:1 KJV] 1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Are you now claiming God does not enable us???

And that if one rejects His gift of salvation, they do not suffer the second death???

New International Version
He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
That's what I mean if you are interpreting "enabled" as choice.

  1. to give
  2. to give something to someone
    1. of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
      1. to bestow a gift
    2. to grant, give to one asking, let have
    3. to supply, furnish, necessary things
    4. to give over, deliver
      1. to reach out, extend, present
      2. of a writing
      3. to give over to one's care, intrust, commit
        1. something to be administered
        2. to give or commit to some one something to be religiously observed
    5. to give what is due or obligatory, to pay: wages or reward
    6. to furnish, endue
  3. to give
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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That's what I mean if you are interpreting "enabled" as choice.
  1. to give
  2. to give something to someone
    1. of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
      1. to bestow a gift
    2. to grant, give to one asking, let have
    3. to supply, furnish, necessary things
    4. to give over, deliver
      1. to reach out, extend, present
      2. of a writing
      3. to give over to one's care, intrust, commit
        1. something to be administered
        2. to give or commit to some one something to be religiously observed
    5. to give what is due or obligatory, to pay: wages or reward
    6. to furnish, endue
  3. to give
The fact that it is a gift is not under contention. You saying / if we have to accept it, then God's grace is nullified / is under contention.

You claiming that accepting a gift makes it not a gift is under contention.

Your claim that acceptance of God's gift is a work is under contention.

You claiming nothing at all is required of us is under contention.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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The fact that it is a gift is not under contention. You saying / if we have to accept it, then God's grace is nullified / is under contention.
No, I am saying that those who believe they have to do something to accept it - rather it being than as a gift - are nullifying grace.
It must either be all of God, or none of it is of God. Otherwise, it wouldn't be grace.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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No, I am saying that those who believe they have to do something to accept it - rather it being than as a gift - are nullifying grace.
It must either be all of God, or none of it is of God. Otherwise, it wouldn't be grace.
Acceptance, faith, and belief are required and these are not works, nor do they nullify God's grace.

In fact, they are the outcome of God's grace toward us.

The LORD appeared to us in the past, saying: “I have loved you with
an everlasting love; therefore I have drawn you with loving devotion."
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Acceptance, faith, and belief are required and these are not works, nor do they nullify God's grace.

In fact, they are the outcome of God's grace toward us.
You contradict yourself. If required, then they can't be gifts - but they are gifts. I can't make it any plainer than that.
Christ is the Saviour/Redeemer. Therefore, everything having to do in saving must be through and by Him,
not us. Not only are they not gifts but have become law.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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You contradict yourself. If required, then they can't be gifts - but they are gifts. I can't make it any plainer than that.
Christ is the Saviour/Redeemer. Therefore, everything having to do in saving must be through and by Him,
not us.
Accepting a gift does not contradict the fact that a gift is a gift.

I can't make it any plainer than that, either :censored:

If it is not accepted, it is rejected.

Accepting is not a work as you claim, nor does it nullify God's grace.

If God's gift is not accepted and therefore rejected, to say such a
person passes into the second death is not egregious error, either
. :oops:

Death is set forth as the wages of sin from the beginning to the end of Scripture!

Thank God Jesus paid the price for those who would believe.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Accepting a gift does not contradict the fact that a gift is a gift.

I can't make it any plainer than that, either :censored:

If it is not accepted, it is rejected.

Accepting is not a work as you claim nor does it nullify God's grace.

If God's gift is not accepted and therefore rejected, to say such a
person passes into the second death is not egregious error, either :oops:


Death is set forth as the wages of sin from the beginning to the end of Scripture!

Thank God Jesus paid the price for hose who would believe.
Yes, that is exactly what it does because a true gift comes without strings or conditions - maybe it does
in human terms, but not so with God.
Jesus makes believe those He paid the price for, otherwise, He wouldn't be the Saviour..

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Yes, that is exactly what it does because a true gift comes without strings or conditions - maybe it does
in human terms, but not so with God.
Jesus makes believe those He paid the price for, otherwise, He wouldn't be the Saviour..
So in your view neither faith nor belief are required.

And if a person exercises them they are nullifying God's grace.

That flies in the face of Scriptural truth.

God's grace is meant to move us to exercise faith and belief!


Hebrews 11:6
:)
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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So in your view neither faith nor belief are required. That flies in the face of Scriptural truth.
No, it doesn't. True faith only comes with being born-again.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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So in your view neither faith nor belief are required.

And if a person exercises them they are nullifying God's grace.

That flies in the face of Scriptural truth.

God's grace is meant to move us to exercise faith and belief!


Hebrews 11:6
:)
That faith is the faith given by the Holy Spirit, it is not of ourselves. Only Christ's faith pleased God because it was righteous,
ours doesn't because there is no righteousness in it.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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So in your view neither faith nor belief are required.

And if a person exercises them they are nullifying God's grace.

That flies in the face of Scriptural truth.

God's grace is meant to move us to exercise faith and belief!


Hebrews 11:6
:)
[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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That faith is the faith given by the Holy Spirit, it is not of ourselves. Only Christ's faith pleased
God because it was righteous, ours doesn't because there is no righteousness in it.
So God gives you faith so you can bury it like in the parable of the talents .:unsure:(n)