5 Points of Arminianism

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VARob

Banned
#341
Dec 21, 2020
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PennEd said:
Yes. I want to see how many others believe they were “persuaded” by their intellect, to “decide” to Spiritually birth themselves.
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People do not decide to "spiritually birth themselves." People decide to believe the gospel, and when they do, God "births" them, giving them the gift of the Holy Spirit.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#342
Mar 1, 2022
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#342
Snacks said:
Lol. You definitely misjudged me. The essence of my request was with a pure heart, and arguing with you wasn’t even a thought. I do argue with fascists but I don’t get that vibe from you. I was simply asking for clarity, but don’t worry, that train left the station. Relax, I’m actually one of the good guys here.
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And he has the super hero costume to prove it. Look...up in the sky...is it a bird...is it a plane? No...it's SuperSnacks.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#343
Apr 22, 2013
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HeIsHere said:
You know it is not very nice to twist or be disingenuous about my words if you are loosely quoting me in this statement.

I have never ever stated a person birth`s themselves.

I never stated that being persuaded was only based only on intellect.

I never stated it was an active decision, quite the opposite, there is a difference between passive and active.

I guess nuance is a challenge.

Not impressed.
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I mean it was you that said you believe because you were persuaded. Those are your words.

I heard the Gospel and believed. I wasn’t “persuaded”. Later on, after believing, the Biblical evidence presented itself, and I understood what I had believed better. But the belief came first.

The world tells us “show me and I’ll believe” God works the opposite. He says, believe and you will see.

I suspect if you search yourself, it is the same for you.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#344
Apr 22, 2013
13,587
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#344
VARob said:
People do not decide to "spiritually birth themselves." People decide to believe the gospel, and when they do, God "births" them, giving them the gift of the Holy Spirit.
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If people decide, Then why doesn’t everyone believe? Many hear the Gospel, and reject it.

Are WE smarter, better, more moral?
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#345
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#345
VARob said:
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

It does not say "unable to respond to spiritual things, until God quickens him to the new spiritual life."
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Dead in sins = dead to things of the Spirit.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#346
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
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#346
PennEd said:
I mean it was you that said you believe because you were persuaded. Those are your words.

I heard the Gospel and believed. I wasn’t “persuaded”. Later on, after believing, the Biblical evidence presented itself, and I understood what I had believed better. But the belief came first.

The world tells us “show me and I’ll believe” God works the opposite. He says, believe and you will see.

I suspect if you search yourself, it is the same for you.
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God made it so whenever a person looks at His Creation they can see and understand God did this.

Now, that is only a first step in believing that God is real.

But it's not until they hear the Gospel of Christ, the Kingdom of God, the Good News they understand that they need a Savior.

One would think even someone like yourself could understand such a basic process.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#347
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#347
VARob said:
People do not become born again until they hear and decide to believe the gospel (Eph 1:13).
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Keep it in context. The ye's in 1:13 are the faithful in Christ Jesus in Eph 1:1. Not the unborn natural man. No matter how hard you try to make the natural man understand spiritual things, it will never harmonize with other scriptures.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#349
Apr 22, 2013
13,587
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#349
The_Watchers_2017 said:
God made it so whenever a person looks at His Creation they can see and understand God did this.

Now, that is only a first step in believing that God is real.

But it's not until they hear the Gospel of Christ, the Kingdom of God, the Good News they understand that they need a Savior.

One would think even someone like yourself could understand such a basic process.
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When I first became a Christian , back in the early 90s, I worked at a real estate company with a woman I was excited to share the Gospel with.

She listened intently, and then said “what do I need a Savior for? I am a good person, so God will judge me on that”.

She was utterly blinded to her need for Jesus. It didn’t matter how much I tried to tell her, or persuade her, that we were all sinners, in need of a Savior.

Ow it is true that since then she may have come to believe. But yrs later she still hadn’t.

Why didn’t she believe upon hearing the SAME Gospel you and I heard?
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#353
Jun 20, 2022
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#353
PennEd said:
When I first became a Christian , back in the early 90s, I worked at a real estate company with a woman I was excited to share the Gospel with.

She listened intently, and then said “what do I need a Savior for? I am a good person, so God will judge me on that”.

She was utterly blinded to her need for Jesus. It didn’t matter how much I tried to tell her, or persuade her, that we were all sinners, in need of a Savior.

Ow it is true that since then she may have come to believe. But yrs later she still hadn’t.

Why didn’t she believe upon hearing the SAME Gospel you and I heard?
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Do you know for a fact that she first believed God is real?

She has to have that understanding before she knows she needs God for Salvation.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#354
Apr 22, 2013
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#354
If you look at even the Apostles, they didn’t understand the Gospel, at least the death, burial, and resurrection, part of the Gospel, UNTIL GOD opened their eyes.

Jesus told them flat out several times that He would suffer, die and raise again on the 3rd day. It wasn’t really that they didn’t believe, it was that they didn’t understand it.

You know who DID understand it?
The Scribes and Pharisees.

They didn’t believe, but they certainly understood, even though Jesus was much more cryptic with them than the Apostles, about Him claiming to raise again to life.

So much so that they petitioned and got a Roman gaurd to watch the tomb in case the disciples tried to make Jesus’ claims come true.

God had to open the Apostles eyes. They couldn’t by themselves.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#355
Apr 22, 2013
13,587
9,104
113
#355
PennEd said:
If you look at even the Apostles, they didn’t understand the Gospel, at least the death, burial, and resurrection, part of the Gospel, UNTIL GOD opened their eyes.

Jesus told them flat out several times that He would suffer, die and raise again on the 3rd day. It wasn’t really that they didn’t believe, it was that they didn’t understand it.

You know who DID understand it?
The Scribes and Pharisees.

They didn’t believe, but they certainly understood, even though Jesus was much more cryptic with them than the Apostles, about Him claiming to raise again to life.

So much so that they petitioned and got a Roman gaurd to watch the tomb in case the disciples tried to make Jesus’ claims come true.

God had to open the Apostles eyes. They couldn’t by themselves.
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Oh. And also.

Who did Jesus say was responsible for Peter believing Jesus was who He said He was?

It wasn’t Peter!
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#356
Apr 22, 2013
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#356
The_Watchers_2017 said:
Do you know for a fact that she first believed God is real?

She has to have that understanding before she knows she needs God for Salvation.
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I mean who can know what anyone truly believes?

I think she believed there is A God. She just had the wrong idea of who He is.
Because, God hadn’t opened her eyes.
 
H

Happy_hobnob

Active member
#357
Mar 11, 2023
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#357
Snacks said:
Lol. You definitely misjudged me. The essence of my request was with a pure heart, and arguing with you wasn’t even a thought. I do argue with fascists but I don’t get that vibe from you. I was simply asking for clarity, but don’t worry, that train left the station. Relax, I’m actually one of the good guys here.
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I'm sorry snacks I haven't ment to offend you snacks I was scared you may not be in a good mood to conceive a scripture about the holy spirit because I felt you where provoked, I didn't phrase it correctly, would you like a glass of peppermint tea or coffee, we can have a snack together. Maybe we can settle now:)
 
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