Some clarity needed.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Do you believe you could forfeit your salvation..

  • No

    Votes: 14 58.3%

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 41.7%
  • Total voters
    24
Fundaamental

Fundaamental

Well-known member
#1
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#1
John 3:6

6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Are these two verses in any way related.

If there not related does each new person get given a unique soul from birth.

Other old testament verses talk about people taking about there soul.

I'm assuming flesh does not give birth to a soul either.
 
Artios1

Artios1

Born again to serve
#2
Dec 11, 2020
678
420
63
#2
The way you phrase your question I cannot answer. Is there a relation? Yes, to a degree. I will give you want I know about soul, and you can figure it out.

The verse in Gen 2:7 is a figure of speech (anthropopatheia) or condescension. Which is the ascription of human passions, action, or attributes… to God …since God is Spirit.

Soul (nephesh) or soul life (nephesh chay) is in the blood. Soul life was first created in mammals in Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

The word living is chay = living or alive

The word creature is nephesh = soul

Where is the soul

Lev 17:11 For the life (nephesh) of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

The word life is the word (nephesh) = soul

The life of the soul is in the blood.

We know blood is what sustains life: Oxygen is delivered throughout the body by means of the red blood cells ….actually… it is the hemoglobin molecules from the red cells that deliver the oxygen to the individual cells in the body tissue. The bloodstream also picks up CO2 from the body and returns it to the lunges to be exhaled…

When we die?

The heart, which pumps the blood, which delivers the oxygen to the brain …… stops….. soul life ceases in that particular person…. but is carried on through prodigy. But if there is no offspring, the soul is gone when that person dies;
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#3
Apr 21, 2021
8,320
3,620
113
#3
Fundaamental said:
John 3:6

6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Are these two verses in any way related.

If there not related does each new person get given a unique soul from birth.

Other old testament verses talk about people taking about there soul.

I'm assuming flesh does not give birth to a soul either.
Click to expand...
"For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it—lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying: This man began to build and was not able to finish?" Luke 14:28-30
 
Fundaamental

Fundaamental

Well-known member
#4
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#4
Artios1 said:
The way you phrase your question I cannot answer. Is there a relation? Yes, to a degree. I will give you want I know about soul, and you can figure it out.

The verse in Gen 2:7 is a figure of speech (anthropopatheia) or condescension. Which is the ascription of human passions, action, or attributes… to God …since God is Spirit.

Soul (nephesh) or soul life (nephesh chay) is in the blood. Soul life was first created in mammals in Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

The word living is chay = living or alive

The word creature is nephesh = soul

Where is the soul

Lev 17:11 For the life (nephesh) of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

The word life is the word (nephesh) = soul

The life of the soul is in the blood.

We know blood is what sustains life: Oxygen is delivered throughout the body by means of the red blood cells ….actually… it is the hemoglobin molecules from the red cells that deliver the oxygen to the individual cells in the body tissue. The bloodstream also picks up CO2 from the body and returns it to the lunges to be exhaled…

When we die?

The heart, which pumps the blood, which delivers the oxygen to the brain …… stops….. soul life ceases in that particular person…. but is carried on through prodigy. But if there is no offspring, the soul is gone when that person dies;
Click to expand...
The first life
Gen 2.7 and God breathed a living Soul in to man.
It's this soul that lives for ever
This is the first life.


The second life
John 3.6 flesh gives birth to flesh, spirit gives birth to spirit.

The soul is born of the holy spirit.
This is also the soul that lives for ever but does not perish.

This is my understanding.

I hope you can see my question now.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#6
#6
The Bible clearly warns of apostacy. So we accept what is written. The scriptures speak of security in Christ and of apostacy. It seems a paradox, but it is written therefore so it is. Im not going to pretend to know better than what God has seen fit to be printed for us.
 
K

Karlon

Well-known member
#7
Mar 8, 2023
2,633
1,189
113
#7
ABSOLUTELY NOT! ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED! imagine this: someone gets saved but wants to give it up. if someone feels that way, what were you saved from to begin with? there's not a single report of that ever happening. the Bible certainly doesn't teach it. it would allow the word of God to be false. Read 1st John 5:10- "HE THAT BELIEVETH ON THE SON OF GOD HATH THE WITNESS IN HIMSELF, HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT ON GOD HAS MADE HIM A LIAR BECAUSE HE BELIEVES NOT THE RECORD GOD GAVE OF HIS SON"!!!! also, John 3:33- "he that hath received His testimony hath SET to his SEAL that God is TRUE"!!! Romans 8:16- "for the SPIRIT beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children of God".
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#8
Apr 22, 2013
13,591
9,109
113
#8
After reading the billion previous threads on Eternal Security, I can guarantee CLARITY is the last thing you will get.

BOTH sides are correct in this question.

Those of you that believe you can lose your Salvation can! You are right.
But Those of us that know we can never lose our Salvation are correct as well. Because we know the One who gave it, and maintains it for us, and He knows us as well!

That's the best clarity you'll get on this issue.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#9
Apr 21, 2021
8,320
3,620
113
#9
Locoponydirtman said:
The Bible clearly warns of apostacy. So we accept what is written. The scriptures speak of security in Christ and of apostacy. It seems a paradox, but it is written therefore so it is. Im not going to pretend to know better than what God has seen fit to be printed for us.
Click to expand...
Amen, it doesn't matter what people say about it, but what God says about it.
 
K

Karlon

Well-known member
#10
Mar 8, 2023
2,633
1,189
113
#10
PennEd said:
After reading the billion previous threads on Eternal Security, I can guarantee CLARITY is the last thing you will get.

BOTH sides are correct in this question.

Those of you that believe you can lose your Salvation can! You are right.
But Those of us that know we can never lose our Salvation are correct as well. Because we know the One who gave it, and maintains it for us, and He knows us as well!

That's the best clarity you'll get on this issue.
Click to expand...
that's a contradiction. it's either 1 or the other. where does God teach in the Bible if you believe you can lose your salvation you can? He doesn't, it's no where to be found! that is the wrong message.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#11
Apr 22, 2013
13,591
9,109
113
#11
Karlon said:
that's a contradiction. it's either 1 or the other. where does God teach in the Bible if you believe you can lose your salvation you can? He doesn't, it's no where to be found! that is the wrong message.
Click to expand...
I know.

I was being facetious!

Read it again.
 
soberxp

soberxp

Senior Member
#12
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
#12
I don't have the right criteria, but I think if someone is worried about losing their salvation, does that mean that people really fear God

Leviticus 25:17
Ye shall not therefore oppress one another; but thou shalt fear thy God:for I am the LORD your God.
 
Fundaamental

Fundaamental

Well-known member
#14
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#14
PennEd said:
After reading the billion previous threads on Eternal Security, I can guarantee CLARITY is the last thing you will get.

BOTH sides are correct in this question.

Those of you that believe you can lose your Salvation can! You are right.
But Those of us that know we can never lose our Salvation are correct as well. Because we know the One who gave it, and maintains it for us, and He knows us as well!

That's the best clarity you'll get on this issue.
Click to expand...
Well my question was not based on pass threads, of eternal security. But the present. Here and now.

The simple ,Question was is John 3:16 100 percent saying a born again Christians soul is born of the Holy spirit.

I think this an important Question to ask, because if this means yes. Then this means you now have citizenship in Heaven.

I tell you that a man can not enter heaven unless hes born of the spirit.

I would have thought the soul after being born of the holy spirit could not expell its own soul from its body..

Unless people are thinking you have two spirits living in you after your born again. I think you would end up becoming double minded if that was the case.

I'm pretty certain that being born of the spirit means the soul has had a new birth.

How can a person eject there own soul from there body, :unsure:

I hope your out of feeling facetious now.
 
E

Edify

Well-known member
#15
Jan 27, 2021
1,561
656
113
#15
Do you believe you could forfeit your salvation..
  • No
    Votes: 675.0%
  • Yes
    Votes: 225.0%

  • Total voters 8
It's a shame people don't know what the scriptures say. Those who say you can't forfeit their salvation are deceived.

2 Thessalonians 2:3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessnessb is revealed, the son of destruction,c 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Christians are backsliding even now (apostasy), departing from the faith, rebelling from God.
It doesn't mean they've forsaken religion. It means they've changed religions & believed a lie.
Now it's a salvation that offers grace no matter what you do, & that a one-time-only act of faith will save them.
That's what happens when we accept another Jesus, receive another grace, & use another faith.
 
Beckie

Beckie

Well-known member
#16
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
939
113
#16
Edify said:
Do you believe you could forfeit your salvation..
  • No
    Votes: 675.0%
  • Yes
    Votes: 225.0%

  • Total voters 8
It's a shame people don't know what the scriptures say. Those who say you can't forfeit their salvation are deceived.

2 Thessalonians 2:3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessnessb is revealed, the son of destruction,c 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Christians are backsliding even now (apostasy), departing from the faith, rebelling from God.
It doesn't mean they've forsaken religion. It means they've changed religions & believed a lie.
Now it's a salvation that offers grace no matter what you do, & that a one-time-only act of faith will save them.
That's what happens when we accept another Jesus, receive another grace, & use another faith.
Click to expand...
Christians are backsliding even now (apostasy), departing from the faith, rebelling from God.
It doesn't mean they've forsaken religion. It means they've changed religions & believed a lie.
Now it's a salvation that offers grace no matter what you do, & that a one-time-only act of faith will save them.
That's what happens when we accept another Jesus, receive another grace, & use another faith.
Click to expand...
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
 
E

Edify

Well-known member
#17
Jan 27, 2021
1,561
656
113
#17
Beckie said:
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Click to expand...
If I understand this ... you're saying those never were christians to begin with?
 
Fundaamental

Fundaamental

Well-known member
#18
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#18
Edify said:
Do you believe you could forfeit your salvation..
  • No
    Votes: 675.0%
  • Yes
    Votes: 225.0%

  • Total voters 8
It's a shame people don't know what the scriptures say. Those who say you can't forfeit their salvation are deceived.

2 Thessalonians 2:3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessnessb is revealed, the son of destruction,c 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Christians are backsliding even now (apostasy), departing from the faith, rebelling from God.
It doesn't mean they've forsaken religion. It means they've changed religions & believed a lie.
Now it's a salvation that offers grace no matter what you do, & that a one-time-only act of faith will save them.
That's what happens when we accept another Jesus, receive another grace, & use another faith.
Click to expand...
could you at least think about post 14.

Because you may not be realising it, but your promoting blasphemy of the holy spirit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.