Baptism, the simple version.

[BroTan]

Acts 10:44-48

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.

Then Peter said, "Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.

The new believers wanted to be baptised. That is a world apart from saying that baptism saves. I've never said that baptism does not matter. I do say that it is not essential to the initial born again experience. Those who require baptism for salvation add to God's requirements. Personally, that's not something I'm game to do.

New believers? The baptism didn't start in the new Testament it's very old, and notice the gift of the Holy Ghost comes with the baptism.
Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16)
Remember, before his crucifixion, Jesus told his disciples that his time (death) is not yet come; He also informed them that their time (death) can come at any moment.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Baptism is a germane part of the salvation process. You're not saved until you're baptized.

The Bible refutes that notion a hundred times.

 

[VARob]

Do you think Paul was planting flowers, Apollos was watering them, and God made them grow, giving them increase???

No. That's the point.

You are the one that's making dumb, laughable comments!

I'm not the one who thinks the phrase "Apollos watered" means that he water baptized people.

1 Cor 3:5-9

5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[DJT_47]

The Bible refutes that notion a hundred times.

Really?

No. That's the point.


I'm not the one who thinks the phrase "Apollos watered" means that he water baptized people.


Thanks for proving my point.

Goodbye. You make no sense.

 

[Docgero]

Nowhere in the scriptures is faith only required for salvation. Once agai n, look at ALL the scriptures. I'll leave it at that with you. Goodbye

Doesn't Jesus say believe upon me and you shall be saved. What is the Hebrew translation of believe? Believe in Hebrew means to put your trust in. It would seem that would also mean have faith in Me and you shall be saved.

 

[DJT_47]

Doesn't Jesus say believe upon me and you shall be saved. What is Hebrew translation of believe? Believe in Hebrew means to put your trust in. It would seem thar would also mean have faith in Me and you shall be saved.

One scripture, the one you cited doesn't in and of itself represent the totality of the requirements to be saved. If it did, you'd have conflicts of scripture because other scriptures say more is required. You must combine all the relative scriptures, not take just one. When you do the following is required.
1. Belief and faith
2. Confession of belief
3. Repentance
4. Baptism

 

[FlyingDove]

You don't know what you're talking about and are contrary to scripture.

Mark 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Belief + baptism = salvation

Acts 2:38
(If you're still in sin, you're alienated from God)

"38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Acts 22:16

16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Peter 3:20-21

"20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

The above few scriptures contradict your statement and beliefs.

1st You're entitled to your beliefs. I'm confident no amount of debate will move you off of you're stated position. Today's water baptism is a public visible, outwardly expression, of one's inner spiritual change/dedication/commitment.

Salvation was offered 1st to the jew then to the gentile - Rom 1:16, 2:9 & 10

The Jew only needed to believe Jesus was their long promised Messiah/Savior. They had a God given sin management (Levitical) system.

Pre death & resurrection there was one (Jews only) assembly.

Eph 2:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

The door to salvation is opened to Gentiles at Cornelius (an Italian Roman centurion (Acts 10:1). It's here the two Jew & Gentile are made into the NT assembly.
(MY NOTE: Pre sin blood payment gentiles were strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope & without God in the world)

Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: No water (it comes later) no adherence to any Mosaic laws) As Peters spoke they heard, believed & received Christ's salvation sealing (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 4:4, 4:30), forever indwelling (Jn 14:16) Holy Spirit.

The message Peter preached & they believed was Christ's death & resurrection Verses 10:39 & 40. Also see Eph 1:13-4, Rom 10:9-10 & most famously 1 Cor 15:1-4.

Water baptism & communion are both decree's the Lord made.

Although upon receiving the Holy Spirit you're eternally saved (by Grace thru Faith) & have a secure place in Gods Heavenly Kingdom. You can not produce good/Godly fruit until you have outwardly/publicly partaken in water baptism. Where you proclaim by undertaking in the representation of Christ's death, burial & resurrection. Communion isn't a requirement for salvation either. Yet, it's another requirement for spiritual growth.

Any body can immerse someone into water. Only Jesus can baptize with His eternal salvation sealing Holy Spirit.

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(MY NOTE: John the Baptist made clear that Christ would baptize with the Holy Spirit)

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(MY NOTE: By ONE SPIRIT the Holy Spirit. Believers are baptized into the Body of Christ. Only Christ can preform spiritual baptism)

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision """made without hands""", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(NOTE: The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a SPIRITUAL circumcision/covenant done By the Lord without hands)

Deut 30:6 (A) the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart,

 

[DJT_47]

1st You're entitled to your beliefs. I'm confident no amount of debate will move you off of you're stated position. Today's water baptism is a public visible, outwardly expression, of one's inner spiritual change/dedication/commitment.

Salvation was offered 1st to the jew then to the gentile - Rom 1:16, 2:9 & 10

The Jew only needed to believe Jesus was their long promised Messiah/Savior. They had a God given sin management (Levitical) system.

Pre death & resurrection there was one (Jews only) assembly.

Eph 2:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

The door to salvation is opened to Gentiles at Cornelius (an Italian Roman centurion (Acts 10:1). It's here the two Jew & Gentile are made into the NT assembly.
(MY NOTE: Pre sin blood payment gentiles were strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope & without God in the world)

Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: No water (it comes later) no adherence to any Mosaic laws) As Peters spoke they heard, believed & received Christ's salvation sealing (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 4:4, 4:30), forever indwelling (Jn 14:16) Holy Spirit.

The message Peter preached & they believed was Christ's death & resurrection Verses 10:39 & 40. Also see Eph 1:13-4, Rom 10:9-10 & most famously 1 Cor 15:1-4.

Water baptism & communion are both decree's the Lord made.

Although upon receiving the Holy Spirit you're eternally saved (by Grace thru Faith) & have a secure place in Gods Heavenly Kingdom. You can not produce good/Godly fruit until you have outwardly/publicly partaken in water baptism. Where you proclaim by undertaking in the representation of Christ's death, burial & resurrection. Communion isn't a requirement for salvation either. Yet, it's another requirement for spiritual growth.

Any body can immerse someone into water. Only Jesus can baptize with His eternal salvation sealing Holy Spirit.

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(MY NOTE: John the Baptist made clear that Christ would baptize with the Holy Spirit)

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(MY NOTE: By ONE SPIRIT the Holy Spirit. Believers are baptized into the Body of Christ. Only Christ can preform spiritual baptism)

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision """made without hands""", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(NOTE: The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a SPIRITUAL circumcision/covenant done By the Lord without hands)

Deut 30:6 (A) the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart,

You likewise don't know what you're talking about. You said " Today's water baptism is a public visible, outwardly expression, of one's inner spiritual change/dedication/commitment."

Where in the bible is this found? Where do you find a distinction between "today's water baptism" and the biblical baptism? That are the same! And baptism is not a public display or outward expression of anything; that's not its intent as the scriptures clearly say in black and white. Read the account of the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8. It was only he and Philip in the middle of nowhere!

Acts 2:38 indicates the intent of baptism which differs from your own, unscriptural, view of it as relates to the Jews on the day of Pentecost. The same applies to us today and why (scripturally) would it not? Where do the scriptures say that the requirements of Acts 2:38 was for the Jews only at that time, and what about the benefits attained as described in Acts 2:38-47: sins remitted, receipt of the Holy Ghost, addition to the church by the Lord?

The baptism of the Holy Ghost as described by John in Matthew 3 as well as Luke 3:16, was also referenced to as "power from on high" by Jesus in Luke 24:49 which statement was made to his apostles, and was further restated in Acts 1:4-5, and did in fact happen as recorded in Acts 2:1-4. And in Acts 2:16, Peter said "THIS IS THAT" which was spoken of---.

And regarding your quote of 1 Cor 12:13, read the original Greek in the interlinear. There it says "in one Spirit" not "by one Spirit". The Greek word is 'en', "in", not 'by'.

Go study some more and seek out the truth.

 

[Nehemiah6]

One scripture, the one you cited doesn't in and of itself represent the totality of the requirements to be saved.

It is NOT one Scripture. There are a hundred similar Scriptures. But Acts 16:31 should suffice, and if it does not then you have a very serious problem.

 

[DJT_47]

It is NOT one Scripture. There are a hundred similar Scriptures. But Acts 16:31 should suffice, and if it does not then you have a very serious problem.

But you've taken what the one said as though it states all the requirements; it doesn't nor do the others taken individually.

Acts 16:31

"31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."

Now what if you take Romans 10:9 individually? What does it say? See below.

Romans 10:9

"9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

The above adds more to the mix! It now includes CONFESSION with belief as part of the requirement to be saved! And so on. You can't take just one scripture; you must consider them all to get the complete picture of what's required.
1. Belief and faith
2. Confession of your belief
3. Repentance
4. Baptism

 

[Wansvic]

You miss the point entirely. Baptism saves no one. A dry sinner immersed in water will arise a wet sinner. I was in the Navy when I was born again. I knew nothing about baptism but I sure knew that I was a different person. I had no opportunity even if I knew about baptism. The Vietnam war was in progress at the time. If I'd died before I was baptised, I know that I would have met Jesus as my saviour, not my judge.

The word is crystal clear that we are saved on the basis of the finished work of Christ on the cross, His death, burial and resurrection. We are saved by His grace, not by works. Add me to the list of those who flat out reject baptism as a requirement for salvation. I've explained what baptism is. We get baptised because we are saved, not in order to be saved.

Notice Jesus said he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. He didn't say get baptized after have been saved:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15-16

 

[DJT_47]

Notice Jesus said he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. He didn't say get baptized after have been saved:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15-16

Yes! Belief and baptism are inextricably tied together by the conjunction, "and". One is contingent upon the other. They are not separate but rather are joined together.

 

[hornetguy]

It is NOT one Scripture. There are a hundred similar Scriptures. But Acts 16:31 should suffice, and if it does not then you have a very serious problem.

hmmmm..... a hundred? Probably better described as a "few" other scriptures.
But.... you could take the other side... there are a "few" scriptures that state clearly that baptism is what saves you.
or, there are a "few" scriptures that state believing saves you...

That is the point.... you cannot choose one of those "methods" that lead to salvation, and say "THIS IS IT !!" No matter which method you choose, something will be left out.... something that scripture says "saves you"....

The only conclusion is that ALL the scriptures that mention salvation MUST be included. If it wasn't necessary, it would not be in scripture.

Everyone in here is big on "don't add to, or take away from" scripture...... which is exactly what you are doing if you just ignore all the scriptures that show the necessity of baptism.

 

[Nehemiah6]

...which is exactly what you are doing if you just ignore all the scriptures that show the necessity of baptism...

Since I am not the one telling others to ignore baptism, you must have someone else in mind. And yes there are probably a hundred Scriptures that confirm that salvation is by grace through faith + NOTHING.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The above adds more to the mix!

And none of them include water baptism. Which means that you have proved to yourself that you hold to a FALSE DOCTRINE! Now are you prepared to walk away from your false beliefs?

 

[DJT_47]

And none of them include water baptism. Which means that you have proved to yourself that you hold to a FALSE DOCTRINE! Now are you prepared to walk away from your false beliefs?

Mark 16:15-16 as quoted above says it all and is enough to refute your illogical, mixed-up logic. Tell Jesus he didn't know what he was talking about.

"15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Belief + baptism =salvation

 

[hornetguy]

Since I am not the one telling others to ignore baptism, you must have someone else in mind. And yes there are probably a hundred Scriptures that confirm that salvation is by grace through faith + NOTHING.

I have never seen you say to ignore baptism. I was talking to the people that want to take a few scriptures that state "belief saves you" and stop right there.
I'm pointing out that there are quite a few scriptures that say "baptism saves you"

Several of us are saying, use ALL the scriptures.
Does baptism by itself save you? Not according to scripture.
Does faith by itself save you? Not according to scripture.
Does belief by itself save you? Not according to scripture.
Does calling on Jesus by itself save you? Not according to scripture.

And all of those listed are part of the salvation process..... which is made available to us through God's grace.... so, yes, grace saves us, because we can in no way deserve it, or earn it. Grace is God's favor to us, totally un-merited. Jesus' blood gives us that.

 

[Gideon300]

I don't think we are arguing... I thought we were discussing.
The scripture you reference was not a descriptive lesson/example on baptism... the baptism was "assumed" to be required by all the Jewish believers. What that scripture is about is teaching the Jewish Christians that Gentiles were accepted by God.... they received the Holy Spirit to PROVE to the Jewish believers that God approved of them.. and the natural FIRST thing to do was to baptize them..

The Jewish believers knew that baptism was a part of being saved..... they simply didn't believe that Gentiles could be saved. God showed them they were acceptable by giving them the Spirit..... then it was "what hinders them from being baptized?" The answer, of course... "nothing".

This was a one-time event to prove to the Jewish believers that Gentiles were accepted by God....

You are correct, though..... it IS plain as day.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the [a]message. 45 All the [b]circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

When I stand before the Lord Jesus, He will be my Justifier, not my judge. I will declare what He has done for me, not what I'be done in order to prove that I'm a good Christian. For me, that day is not so far off. I'm 71. We baptise people on the basis that they are saved, not to get them saved. Your reasoning is false. The Word makes it clear what is necessary to be saved.

Some Australians were sentenced to death in Indonesia for drug smuggling. One was saved. He began Bible studies and led others to Jesus. He and others were unable to be baptised because the authorities would not allow it. Several Christians were executed by Indonesia. You will tell me that they are going to hell because they did not get baptised?

 

[Gideon300]

Notice Jesus said he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. He didn't say get baptized after have been saved:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15-16

Read the rest of the Bible. Especially Acts 10. And you answered you own objection: He who does not believe. Not, he who is not baptised.

 

[Gideon300]

New believers? The baptism didn't start in the new Testament it's very old, and notice the gift of the Holy Ghost comes with the baptism.
Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16)
Remember, before his crucifixion, Jesus told his disciples that his time (death) is not yet come; He also informed them that their time (death) can come at any moment.

You can stand before Jesus and boast about what you have done. My boast is only what He has done. I was baptised by immersion and we teach it as a necessary actof obedience and witness. We do not say that it is necessary for salvation. We leave that to those who wish to add works to grace.