The Trinity...my take.

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H

heartwashed

Banned
#61
May 17, 2023
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#61
CS1 said:
I can see you may not be here very long.

First off, no one can fully comprehend the Eternal Godhead. God is limitless, and we who are limited can only know the Nature of God by the ways he provides; they are Revelations:

  1. General Revelation His creation
  2. Special Revelation His word
  3. Revelation to us by Relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit of Christ is Eternal and was with the Father from the beginning. We know this because Jesus said so. And the Father also said,' This is my Son whom I am well pleased. Nothing Jesus did was without the Holy Spirit, for he relied on the Holy Spirit as the God-Man, fully God and Fully man.

You, sir, are trying to reduce the Devine Nature of God to fit your understanding. That is your biggest mistake.

You are errored in your approach to the Eternal Godhead.
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The risen Christ is, in effect, the Father in flesh (John 14:7-11, Isaiah 9:6).

So, the pre-existent Word, being the Father also (John 1:1) "and the Word was God"...was also with the Father...

In that the Father did not VACATE ETERNITY when He descended to take on an added nature of human flesh.

So, when He ascended, He ascended to exist next to His pre-incarnate form.

I will say according to 1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6, and James 3:9 (kjv), that God is the Father;

And therefore, if the Son is God (and He is), then He is also the Father (come in flesh)....Isaiah 9:6.

I may not be here very long because of my doctrine...

And you say that I am not being persecuted for righteousness' sake...

I would say that it is exactly the case; because my doctrine is indeed sound.
 
H

heartwashed

Banned
#62
May 17, 2023
830
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#62
Nehemiah6 said:
God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are divine Spirit beings. Not "the same Spirit".
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I consider that the Spirit who dwelt in Jesus is the Father (John 14:7-11).

Therefore, when He released His Spirit back into eternity, He released the Father back into eternity, with the title of Holy Ghost (Luke 23:46).

Because the Father did not VACATE ETERNITY when He descended, Jesus released His Spirit back to the Father.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#63
May 23, 2012
13,058
4,344
113
#63
heartwashed said:
The risen Christ is, in effect, the Father in flesh (John 14:7-11, Isaiah 9:6).

So, the pre-existent Word, being the Father also (John 1:1) "and the Word was God"...was also with the Father...

In that the Father did not VACATE ETERNITY when He descended to take on an added nature of human flesh.

So, when He ascended, He ascended to exist next to His pre-incarnate form.

I will say according to 1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6, and James 3:9 (kjv), that God is the Father;

And therefore, if the Son is God (and He is), then He is also the Father (come in flesh)....Isaiah 9:6.

I may not be here very long because of my doctrine...

And you say that I am not being persecuted for righteousness' sake...

I would say that it is exactly the case; because my doctrine is indeed sound.
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not of baptism is.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#66
May 23, 2012
13,058
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#66
heartwashed said:
I think that the only valid reason moderators can have for banning me is if I become a breaker of the rules.
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No, you are speaking of salvation by baptism in only the name of Jesus, which is oneness doctrine no matter what you say or who you are with Calvary Chapel.

If believe those who say they are Christians and have only been baptized."in the name of the Father, and The Son and The Holy Spirit "
is wrong, and their baptism is not valid. You are in error, and YOU are teaching just that.

I ask you point blank I was baptized not in the name of Jesus only. Is my baptism valid, and am I not saved because I have not done so?

Answer that.
 
V

VARob

Banned
#67
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
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#67
Bruce_Leiter said:
the Trinity, as the Bible describes it, is a mystery that we can't comprehend
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CS1 said:
First off, no one can fully comprehend the Eternal Godhead.
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Nehemiah6 said:
We need to always keep in mind that no human being can fully fathom the triune Godhead.
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The biggest "defense" for the Trinity seems to be that nobody knows, nobody can understand it. But by gosh, you had better believe it..

HeIsHere said:
And I am not saying that God is, or is not three persons but surely very few ever take a deep dive to reexamine these beliefs handed down through the ages.
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Truer words were never spoken.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#68
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
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#68
heartwashed said:
I consider that the Spirit who dwelt in Jesus is the Father (John 14:7-11).
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You are so THOROUGHLY CONFUSED that there is little chance of you understanding the truth.

So here is what the Bible reveals:
GOD THE FATHER IS NEITHER THE SON NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE SON IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE SON

At the same time there is ONE GOD eternally existent as three divine Persons. Can any mortal man fathom this spiritual reality? Absolutely not. We accept it by faith. All the false religions and all the false cults reject the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. But the Bible clearly presents this truth.
 
H

heartwashed

Banned
#69
May 17, 2023
830
57
28
#69
CS1 said:
No, you are speaking of salvation by baptism in only the name of Jesus, which is oneness doctrine no matter what you say or who you are with Calvary Chapel.

If believe those who say they are Christians and have only been baptized."in the name of the Father, and The Son and The Holy Spirit "
is wrong, and their baptism is not valid. You are in error, and YOU are teaching just that.

I ask you point blank I was baptized not in the name of Jesus only. Is my baptism valid, and am I not saved because I have not done so?

Answer that.
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I do not teach that you cannot be saved by simply calling on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13).

But I have a question for you.

How do you interpret a comparison of Acts 2:39 and Romans 8:30?

However, this is getting into a different topic than is the subject of this thread.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#70
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
#70
VARob said:
The biggest "defense" for the Trinity seems to be that nobody knows, nobody can understand it. But by gosh, you had better believe it..
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Yes. You had better believe it since your salvation depends on it. Is God the Father God? Is Jesus the Son God? Is the Holy Spirit God? Absolutely.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#71
May 23, 2012
13,058
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#71
heartwashed said:
I do not teach that you cannot be saved by simply calling on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13).

But I have a question for you.

How do you interpret a comparison of Acts 2:39 and Romans 8:30?

However, this is getting into a different topic than is the subject of this thread.
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YOU answer mind first :

"I ask you point blank I was baptized not in the name of Jesus only. Is my baptism valid, and am I not saved because I have not done so?"

Answer that.

Then I will be happy to answer your question
 
H

heartwashed

Banned
#72
May 17, 2023
830
57
28
#72
Nehemiah6 said:
You are so THOROUGHLY CONFUSED that there is little chance of you understanding the truth.

So here is what the Bible reveals:
GOD THE FATHER IS NEITHER THE SON NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE SON IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE SON

At the same time there is ONE GOD eternally existent as three divine Persons. Can any mortal man fathom this spiritual reality? Absolutely not. We accept it by faith. All the false religions and all the false cults reject the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. But the Bible clearly presents this truth.
Click to expand...
If "the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Spirit", then how do you account for the following?

In the Trinitarian creeds we are told that "we are forbidden by Catholic doctrine to say that there are three Lords."

But if the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost, then they are separate Persons,

and therefore they are not one Lord (see Ephesians 4:5).

Now, the Father is Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18), the Son is Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Spirit is Lord (2 Corinthians 3:17) according to scripture.

So; if they are not one Lord, how many Lords are they?

I can think of no other number than three.

For each one is not the other by your estimation (i.e. "the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost")..

Therefore you say what is forbidden by Catholic doctrine for you to say, according to the creeds.

Thus you are not purporting the historical, orthodox doctrine of the Trinity but some kind of aberrant form.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#73
May 23, 2012
13,058
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#73
heartwashed said:
If "the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Spirit", then how do you account for the following?

In the Trinitarian creeds we are told that "we are forbidden by Catholic doctrine to say that there are three Lords."

But if the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost, then they are separate Persons,

and therefore they are not one Lord (see Ephesians 4:5).

Now, the Father is Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18), the Son is Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Spirit is Lord (2 Corinthians 3:17) according to scripture.

So; if they are not one Lord, how many Lords are they?

I can think of no other number than three.

For each one is not the other by your estimation (i.e. "the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost")..

Therefore you say what is forbidden by Catholic doctrine for you to say, according to the creeds.

Thus you are not purporting the historical, orthodox doctrine of the Trinity but some kind of aberrant form.
Click to expand...



I ask you point blank I was baptized not in the name of Jesus only. Is my baptism valid, and am I not saved because I have not done so?

Answer that.
 
H

heartwashed

Banned
#74
May 17, 2023
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#74
Nehemiah6 said:
Yes. You had better believe it since your salvation depends on it. Is God the Father God? Is Jesus the Son God? Is the Holy Spirit God? Absolutely.
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How many Gods is that, if

"the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost"?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#75
May 23, 2012
13,058
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#75
heartwashed said:
How many Gods is that, if

"the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost"?
Click to expand...

I ask you point blank I was baptized not in the name of Jesus only. Is my baptism valid, and am I not saved because I have not done so?

Answer that.
 
H

heartwashed

Banned
#76
May 17, 2023
830
57
28
#76
CS1 said:
I ask you point blank I was baptized not in the name of Jesus only. Is my baptism valid, and am I not saved because I have not done so?

Answer that.
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Have you properly called on the name of the Lord? Then you are saved!

Okay, now I have answered your question, now you answer mine.

How do you interpret a comparison of Acts 2:39 and Romans 8:30?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#77
May 23, 2012
13,058
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#77
heartwashed said:
Have you properly called on the name of the Lord? Then you are saved!

Okay, now I have answered your question, now you answer mine.

How do you interpret a comparison of Acts 2:39 and Romans 8:30?
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NO you have not


I ask you point blank :


I was baptized not in the name of Jesus only.

Is my baptism valid, and am I not saved because I have not done so?
YES or NO?
Answer that.
 
H

heartwashed

Banned
#78
May 17, 2023
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#78
The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one Lord (Ephesians 4:5; Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18; 1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3; 2 Corinthians 3:17).
 
H

heartwashed

Banned
#79
May 17, 2023
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#79
CS1 said:
NO you have not


I ask you point blank :


I was baptized not in the name of Jesus only.

Is my baptism valid, and am I not saved because I have not done so?
YES or NO?
Answer that.
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I do not teach that you are not saved if you have not been baptized in Jesus' Name. I let the scriptures (Acts 2:39 and Romans 8:30) speak for themselves.

What do you think they are saying to you?
 
H

heartwashed

Banned
#80
May 17, 2023
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#80
In more of an answer to your question, I believe that Matthew 28:19 baptism is valid if you also acknowledge that the singular name in that passage is "Jesus Christ" according to Acts 2:38.
 
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