Remember Lot's Wife

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,934
7,352
113
my point here is that every accusation being brought against Lot's wife can be equally made against Lot, and in much of the case, really is nothing more than supposition about Mrs. Lot's motives with nothing in the account supporting it, but with Lot, ample evidence of him continuously resisting the warnings and direct commands of the angels.

so if we damn Mrs. Lot on this basis it is evident we should equally damn Lot or else we judge unevenly.

however 2 Peter 2 calls Lot explicitly an example of righteousness - so we should not contradict him.

If we acquiesce that despite Lot's resistence and unwillingness he is saved, we ought to judge equally Mrs. Lot if we dare to assign judgment at all.

The evidence we do have is that she was supernaturally saved from the destruction of the wicked city and that she was furthermore supernaturally prevented from returning.

on that basis alone what does she represent?
And specifically what does she represent to tribulation Jews?
Yup.....
The only family of Lot's that perished as UNSAVED were his sons-in-law: "But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law."
This "mocked" notion was not the opinion of Lot's wife. She was probably in a full-blown panic.

2Pe 2:7
And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8
(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
2Pe 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,934
7,352
113
I highlighted what I disagreed with, and told you why. Here it is again:

they are promising to torture and murder her on sight.

The text does not say that. You start a post by admonishing another for assuming things
the text does not say, and then proceed to make claims based on things the text does not say.


I cannot fathom you find this too difficult to understand.

Why do you try to make this into me disagreeing with what the text actually does say?
Yes it does. And the text could not be clearer that remaining would mean certain fiery death.
All of which Lot's wife understood.

"Furthermore, God does NOT damn those on a mission of mercy where your life is imperiled.

Just as @posthuman has said.....a situation akin to running into a burning building to save some kids when the police and firemen have LAWFULLY forbidden your entry."
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,934
7,352
113
The children in the wilderness longed for the Garlic and leeks of Egypt.
Well, if Lot's wife was looking back with a penchant and yearning to become a fully committed Sodomite fornicator and murderer, I would lean to your opinion. Because evidently the rest of the city fit this description.

But I think not. Why? She knew the place had no future as a smoking crater, and all the residents would be damned to the eternal death of the lake of fire.

Gen 19:17
And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look H5027 not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.

Gen 19:26
But his wife looked back H5027 from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.


And yes @Magenta ..........eternal death (eating of the second tree while still in your sin) for the unredeemed is boilerplate Biblical fact. So stated all the way back in Genesis 3.

Gen 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,672
5,569
113
62
my point here is that every accusation being brought against Lot's wife can be equally made against Lot, and in much of the case, really is nothing more than supposition about Mrs. Lot's motives with nothing in the account supporting it, but with Lot, ample evidence of him continuously resisting the warnings and direct commands of the angels.

so if we damn Mrs. Lot on this basis it is evident we should equally damn Lot or else we judge unevenly.

however 2 Peter 2 calls Lot explicitly an example of righteousness - so we should not contradict him.

If we acquiesce that despite Lot's resistence and unwillingness he is saved, we ought to judge equally Mrs. Lot if we dare to assign judgment at all.

The evidence we do have is that she was supernaturally saved from the destruction of the wicked city and that she was furthermore supernaturally prevented from returning.

on that basis alone what does she represent?
And specifically what does she represent to tribulation Jews?
The whole story for me sent my mind racing to Luke 9:62...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
Yes it does. And the text could not be clearer that remaining would mean certain fiery death.
All of which Lot's wife understood.

"Furthermore, God does NOT damn those on a mission of mercy where your life is imperiled.
The idea of Lot's wife being on some "mission of mercy" is ludicrous. Completely off the wall and unprecedented.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,934
7,352
113
The idea of Lot's wife being on some "mission of mercy" is ludicrous. Completely off the wall and unprecedented.
Show me the passage that indicates that Lot's wife was judged to damnation. Not there buddy.
Anyhoo.....if you do not want to audition what Chronister has to say on the matter, fine with me.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,934
7,352
113
The whole story for me sent my mind racing to Luke 9:62...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Wrong analogy. In the case of Lot's wife.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
1,915
859
113
That Lot's wife looked "from behind" Lot, to me, sort of implies that she hadn't made it to Zoar with Lot. I suppose you could say that it means that she was simply 'positionally' behind Lot... like, literally standing directly behind him or something- but I don't think it's meant to be understood that way. I think she was still on the plain and destroyed with the cities and every living thing on the plains.
Salt is a preservative- but it preserves dead meat from rotting... and it does so by being detrimental to the living microbes and bacteria that move along the decaying process. To me, it's just symbolic of the death and destruction that was happening, if anything. It seems pretty obvious that Jesus is using Lot's wife as an example of what not to do in Luke 17.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
In the context of the passage given by the OP, Jesus was describing the sudden destruction that was to come. The reason to remember Lot's wife is that she failed to heed the warning and was destroyed. Likewise would be anyone who failed to heed the warning Jesus was delivering. No need to read anyfurther into that.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
Show me the passage that indicates that Lot's wife was judged to damnation.
Genesis 19:26
“But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.”

She directly violated a direct command from the Lord.

It doesn't get any clearer that. Whatever has blinded you so to what is obvious, I do not know.

you do not want to audition what Chronister has to say on the matter
Why you have so much invested in this Chronister fellow, I do not know.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,793
13,166
113
The whole story for me sent my mind racing to Luke 9:62...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
excellent =]


consider what Lot did in the beginning of the chapter.
He urged the angels not to stay overnight in the square and argued with them against their will untill they agreed to come shelter in his house.

Is this what he did with every stranger who entered town? the men of the city were fed up with him already - "he acts as our judge" - what was he doing at the gate watching when they arrived?

If Lot - righteous Lot, vexed by what he saw going on - was daily sitting at the gate trying to warn people away and/or save them from a terrible fate by hiding them in his house, then this was his 'plough' - saving people. protecting strangers and foreigners.

And if he was doing this, it was a dangerous business in the politics of the town. no doubt he made waves. that's evident from what happened that night: the whole city knew just where to go and assembled a violent mob.
Do we doubt his family was aware of this? that those who remained in his house took part and were complicit?

so if the work of Lot and his household was a kind of 'underground railroad' trying to save people from a horrible fate at the hands of the men of the city, and if Lot's wife indeed was willing to give up her life for one last chance to convince her children to flee, is she 'turning away from the plough' when she does this or she going on with her convictions to her last breath?

And what is Lot doing?
he gives a ridiculous excuse about being too scared to go to the mountains. that makes zero sense. the hand of God is protecting him personally - how stupid is he? does he really think God can't lead him to the mountains as God commands him? that God can't keep him safely when God just miraculously took him from the city?
But what ends up happening because of his arguing? Zoar is spared! just like Lot and his immediate family in his house was spared because Abraham pled for him.

so Lot tries and succeeds in saving Zoar.
his wife tries but fails to save her daughters and sons.

neither took their hand from the plow.
both are saved, being led away by the hand of an angel, spared the destruction of the wicked.

this is a commentary on the end times, for the Jews at the time of Jacob's trouble. that's the context when Christ says to remember her. those who are willing to risk their lives to preach the gospel to the Jews will be pillars, will be called salt. they will spare entire towns because of their intercession with God.
even if they lose their lives for Christ's sake, by doing so they will find true life. in contrast those who at that time lie and betray one another to save their own lives, or who try to amass or keep wealth and possessions as some. kind of security in that day, will lose true life.
That's my take.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,793
13,166
113
The idea of Lot's wife being on some "mission of mercy" is ludicrous. Completely off the wall and unprecedented.
It makes way more sense than committing suicide for one last bite of garlic, bro.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,793
13,166
113
Because both @posthuman and @cv5 have been brainwashed by this Chronister fellow into thinking that Lot's wife is on some type of Florence Nightengale "Mission of Mercy".
You should probably do Chronister the grace of listening to at least one lecture before casting all this judgement.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,793
13,166
113
She directly violated a direct command from the Lord.
so did Lot.

multiple times.

is God capricious?
does He judge with respect of persons?
you really satisfied with that explanation?
you should not be. it doesn't hold water.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
You should probably do Chronister the grace of listening to at least one lecture before casting all this judgement.
After seeing the effect he has had on you??? Think I'll stick to the Bible.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
so did Lot.

multiple times.

is God capricious?
does He judge with respect of persons?
you really satisfied with that explanation?
You should not bet. it doesn't hold water.
Sounds like your argument is with God, not I.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,672
5,569
113
62
consider what Lot did in the beginning of the chapter.
He urged the angels not to stay overnight in the square and argued with them against their will untill they agreed to come shelter in his house.

Is this what he did with every stranger who entered town? the men of the city were fed up with him already - "he acts as our judge" - what was he doing at the gate watching when they arrived?

If Lot - righteous Lot, vexed by what he saw going on - was daily sitting at the gate trying to warn people away and/or save them from a terrible fate by hiding them in his house, then this was his 'plough' - saving people. protecting strangers and foreigners.

And if he was doing this, it was a dangerous business in the politics of the town. no doubt he made waves. that's evident from what happened that night: the whole city knew just where to go and assembled a violent mob.
Do we doubt his family was aware of this? that those who remained in his house took part and were complicit?

so if the work of Lot and his household was a kind of 'underground railroad' trying to save people from a horrible fate at the hands of the men of the city, and if Lot's wife indeed was willing to give up her life for one last chance to convince her children to flee, is she 'turning away from the plough' when she does this or she going on with her convictions to her last breath?

And what is Lot doing?
he gives a ridiculous excuse about being too scared to go to the mountains. that makes zero sense. the hand of God is protecting him personally - how stupid is he? does he really think God can't lead him to the mountains as God commands him? that God can't keep him safely when God just miraculously took him from the city?
But what ends up happening because of his arguing? Zoar is spared! just like Lot and his immediate family in his house was spared because Abraham pled for him.

so Lot tries and succeeds in saving Zoar.
his wife tries but fails to save her daughters and sons.

neither took their hand from the plow.
both are saved, being led away by the hand of an angel, spared the destruction of the wicked.
Are you saying Lot was trying to save the people of Sodom? I would disagree. Lot had joined the people of Sodom.
And the angels didn't need his protection. They were perfectly able to care for themselves. He needed their protection.

Lot was so far gone that he offered his daughters. Not exactly the actions of a righteous man. In fact, if the NT doesn't refer to him as righteous Lot, it is within reason to wonder concerning him. Even after being spared we soon find him in a drunken estate.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,793
13,166
113
In the context of the passage given by the OP, Jesus was describing the sudden destruction that was to come. The reason to remember Lot's wife is that she failed to heed the warning and was destroyed. Likewise would be anyone who failed to heed the warning Jesus was delivering. No need to read anyfurther into that.
key detail makes that unsatisfactory:

she was not destroyed with the city.
God prevented her.
she was covered in salt.
salt does not burn; she was preserved from the destruction.