Ukraine the bad guy?

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cv5

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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#966
ZNP said:
You are an optimist, it seems to me this conflict is just getting started.
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Ukraine has at best 80K reasonably trained personnel remaining.
So unless they have the ability to conduct a clone war, the curtain is closing on this insane conflict.

Unless of course the Poles start feeling suicidal too.
 
ZNP

ZNP

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cv5 said:
Ukraine has at best 80K reasonably trained personnel remaining.
So unless they have the ability to conduct a clone war, the curtain is closing on this insane conflict.

Unless of course the Poles start feeling suicidal too.
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Yes, I don't think it stops with Ukraine, I expect Russia will head to France and then after that they'll head south to Israel.
 
cv5

cv5

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ZNP said:
Yes, I don't think it stops with Ukraine, I expect Russia will head to France and then after that they'll head south to Israel.
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The Magog invasion is of course quite inevitable. But IMO.....this is a post-rapture second seal event.

Too much prophecy club bro. That bogus show will melt your brain.
 
ZNP

ZNP

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cv5 said:
The Magog invasion is of course quite inevitable. But IMO.....this is a post-rapture second seal event.

Too much prophecy club bro. That bogus show will melt your brain.
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They didn't set up BRICS so that after this they could fall back into line as obedient little lap dogs to the G7, the G7 represents 40% of the world's economy and they are easily on the brink of controlling 65% of the world's economy (if China seizes Taiwan).
 
cv5

cv5

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ZNP said:
You are an optimist, it seems to me this conflict is just getting started.
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Understand first of all that the second biggest army in Europe was defeated by a mere PMC.
Secondly Ukraine has lost fully one third of its population. And a large percentage of its best land.

And if Britian/EU/US wants to fight it out to a last death rattle, all they have is maybe 80K Ukrainians to do it. All of whom will be fodderized within a couple of months.

Strangely enough all of these disasterous outcomes only happened post Nuland/McCain/Graham/Obama/Biden etc. The kiss of death so to speak.
 
ZNP

ZNP

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cv5 said:
Understand first of all that the second biggest army in Europe was defeated by a mere PMC.
Secondly Ukraine has lost fully one third of its population. And a large percentage of its best land.

And if Britian/EU/US wants to fight it out to a last death rattle, all they have is maybe 80K Ukrainians to do it. All of whom will be fodderized within a couple of months.

Strangely enough all of these disasterous outcomes only happened post Nuland/McCain/Graham/Obama/Biden etc. The kiss of death so to speak.
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6-12 months from now we'll know if you are right,
 
G

Gideon300

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cv5 said:
Bakhmut has fallen.....

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1659912408297553921

Head of the Russian private military group Wagner, Yevgeny Prigozhin, has announced Saturday that after months of grinding warfare and heavy casualties, Russia has now taken full control of the strategic city of Bakhmut.

Prigozhin is announcing final victory and that Bakhmut has finally fallen. "The operation to capture Bakhmut lasted 224 days" he said in a video posted to Wagner's Telegram channel. "Today at noon, Bakhmut was fully captured," he declared.

Russian state media is also declaring "The key Donbass city of Artyomovsk, known as Bakhmut in Ukraine, has been fully liberated by the Russian forces...".

Prigozhin described that full capture of the city finally came when an area containing high-rise buildings where the final Ukrainian defensive holdout had a presence was conquered.

Western media reports have said they can't verify the claims, but headlines in Reuters and the Associated Press are widely reporting the Wagner chief's declaration of victory:

In a video posted on Telegram, Wagner head Yevgeny Prigozhin said the city came under complete Russian control at about midday Saturday. He spoke flanked by about half a dozen fighters, with ruined buildings in the background and explosions heard in the distance.​
But the mainstream media reports are also highlighting Ukraine's rejection of claims that the city has finally fallen. Yet, as the AP underscores, Ukrainian officials have lately admitted the situation was already dire for their forces:

However, after the video appeared, Ukrainian deputy defense minister Hanna Maliar said heavy fighting was continuing.​
“The situation is critical,” she said. “As of now, our defenders, control certain industrial and infrastructure facilities in this area.”​
Serhiy Cherevatyi, spokesman for Ukraine’s eastern command, told The Associated Press that Prigozhin’s claim “is not true. Our units are fighting in Bakhmut.”​
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It just shows you the insanity of the Russian mindset. Liberated? A city destroyed by Russian shelling? Liberated from who? It is Ukraine's territory. Russia has no legitimate claim on Bakhmut.
 
G

Gideon300

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cv5 said:
Understand first of all that the second biggest army in Europe was defeated by a mere PMC.
Secondly Ukraine has lost fully one third of its population. And a large percentage of its best land.

And if Britian/EU/US wants to fight it out to a last death rattle, all they have is maybe 80K Ukrainians to do it. All of whom will be fodderized within a couple of months.

Strangely enough all of these disasterous outcomes only happened post Nuland/McCain/Graham/Obama/Biden etc. The kiss of death so to speak.
Click to expand...
What planet are you on? The supposed second most effective army in the world has been unable to occupy Ukraine after well over a year of fighting. If Russia wants to defeat Ukraine, it will have dozens of Bakhmut like campaigns to fight. It is the Russians who are treated as cannon fodder. Millions of Russians have fled also. They are struggling with industry because of manpower shortages. "Mere" PMC? Wagner Group is better armed, better trained and more experienced than Russia's formal military. I've worked out how to read your comments. Just reverse everything you say on this subject and that will be the truth.
 
cv5

cv5

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Gideon300 said:
It just shows you the insanity of the Russian mindset. Liberated? A city destroyed by Russian shelling? Liberated from who? It is Ukraine's territory. Russia has no legitimate claim on Bakhmut.
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I would opine that "the insanity" has to do with the fact that Britian, the EU and "others" are willing to fight to the last Ukrainian, and lose all Ukrainian territory up to the Dnieper river before any meaningful good-faith peace negotiations ever begin.
 
cv5

cv5

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Gideon300 said:
What planet are you on? The supposed second most effective army in the world has been unable to occupy Ukraine after well over a year of fighting. If Russia wants to defeat Ukraine, it will have dozens of Bakhmut like campaigns to fight. It is the Russians who are treated as cannon fodder. Millions of Russians have fled also. They are struggling with industry because of manpower shortages. "Mere" PMC? Wagner Group is better armed, better trained and more experienced than Russia's formal military. I've worked out how to read your comments. Just reverse everything you say on this subject and that will be the truth.
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Yet, the main Russian fighting force has yet to even so much leave the stable.

I think you are snorting the same stuff Z is to arrive at that bizarre conclusion.

BTW, the AFU has fled Bakhmut. Whether you believe it or not. It has fallen. And the odds of it being retaken are exceedingly slim IMO.
 
ZNP

ZNP

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cv5 said:
Yet, the main Russian fighting force has yet to even so much leave the stable.

I think you are snorting the same stuff Z is to arrive at that bizarre conclusion.

BTW, the AFU has fled Bakhmut. Whether you believe it or not. It has fallen. And the odds of it being retaken are exceedingly slim IMO.
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If the Ukrainians should falter remember that Captain Z is behind you (about 35 miles behind you)

 
G

gb9

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Jan 18, 2011
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cv5 said:
Yet, the main Russian fighting force has yet to even so much leave the stable.

I think you are snorting the same stuff Z is to arrive at that bizarre conclusion.

BTW, the AFU has fled Bakhmut. Whether you believe it or not. It has fallen. And the odds of it being retaken are exceedingly slim IMO.
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compared to what they could be doing, russia is taking a light handed approach..
 
G

Gideon300

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cv5 said:
I would opine that "the insanity" has to do with the fact that Britian, the EU and "others" are willing to fight to the last Ukrainian, and lose all Ukrainian territory up to the Dnieper river before any meaningful good-faith peace negotiations ever begin.
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One minor "victory" in Bakhmut is nothing in the overall context of the war. Wagner will leave, the incompetents of the Russian army will take over and Bakhmut will be taken back, sooner or later.

It's nobody's call except the people of Ukraine. Those who support Ukraine realise that allowing Russia to occupy some Ukranian territory in 2014 was a mistake. Anyone who imagines that Russia would stop at Ukraine is deluded. Putin wants to emulate Catherine the Great. If he is allowed to succeed in Ukraine, he will rebuild his forces until he is confident that he can take out other former soviet nations. How do I know? He's implied that himself and his actions have demonstrated his resolve.

If Ukrainians want Russian control, they should be allowed to let Putin take over. If not, they should be backed to the hilt. So far, they have shown no willingness to step back. Ukraine complains that the West has not done enough to help.

Good faith negotiations? With Putin? Dream on.
 
Zandar

Zandar

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It looks like India is about to be dragged into this mess.
 
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