Remember Lot's Wife

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Cameron143

Cameron143

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posthuman said:
are you asking me why Lot is considered righteous?
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No. It's clear Lot is righteous. Not terribly smart in my opinion but righteous.
Lot's wife disobeyed God. Yet you claim she is this noble creature giving her life for others. I'm asking, where in the bible is disobedience to God ever a noble act?
 
Magenta

Magenta

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posthuman said:
bit do. you think either one works s an absolute idiot?
Or do you look at this whole thing as if they are intelligent, Godly people who. made reasoned free-will decisions?
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bit do? Are you saying I do? Dear post. Please give up this line of irrational reasoning.

okay you have edited your post now. Thank you.

posthuman said:
but do you think either one is an absolute idiot?
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The thought never crossed my mind.

posthuman said:
Or do you look at this whole thing as if they are intelligent, Godly people who made reasoned, informed, free-will decisions?
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Neither, actually. More like, I take the text at face value.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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Cameron143 said:
Think about it this way...God says post...I'm taking you out of your town...don't look back. Do you honor God by obeying or disobeying His command? Is there another place in scripture where disobedience is considered to signify goodness on the part of the one disobeying?
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ouch

No, post literally just turned down a 6 figure job because he did not want to move
i thought i chose rght

i can only do the things i am capable of
 
posthuman

posthuman

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Cameron143 said:
No. It's clear Lot is righteous. Not terribly smart in my opinion but righteous.
Lot's wife disobeyed God. Yet you claim she is this noble creature giving her life for others. I'm asking, where in the bible is disobedience to God ever a noble act?
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Lot also clearly disobeyed.

so.

does the Bible call people who are sometimes disobedient righteous?

is righteousness by faith or by works?
 
Magenta

Magenta

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posthuman said:
Lot also clearly disobeyed.

so.
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Men get all the breaks .:rolleyes:;):LOL:

j/k.

But I found it strange so many of y'all forgot how women were treated as chattel.

Why would Lot address them on the matter at hand?

They had no choice in the matter. They had to do as they were told.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#308
posthuman said:
ouch

No, post literally just turned down a 6 figure job because he did not want to move
i thought i chose rght

i can only do the things i am capable of
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Sorry...I wasn't trying to make it about you. I was trying to make the point that obedience is better than sacrifice.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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posthuman said:
Lot also clearly disobeyed.

so.

does the Bible call people who are sometimes disobedient righteous?

is righteousness by faith or by works?
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Did Lot disobey, or bargain for concessions?

Mrs. Lot had no speaking parts.

Yes, the Bible does call people who are sometimes disobedient righteous.

David was the apple of God's eye. A murdering adulterer.

Very, very few patriarchs/Biblical figures are presented with no sin.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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reneweddaybyday said:
right ... which hits strange to me as well.

and what about his sons? did his sons live with him in his home yet remained behind? ... did his sons live in the city and Lot did not speak with them ... as, apparently, he did not speak to his daughters???
.
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given the situation when "all the men of the city, both young and old" assemble in a mob to threaten Lot's household in an attempt to gain the bodies of the angles for their own nefarious means, i am going to make the educated guess that Lot's sons were not particularly righteous dudes.

i'm going to guess that Lot is not an idiot
therefore i guess he knew more or less what kind of people his sons were
therefore i am going to guess that, based on his worldly wisdom, of which i presume he had much, that he didn't bother even approaching them seriously; that he figured it was a wasted effort i he would have.
 
R

reneweddaybyday

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posthuman said:
what/who is he a picture of in this early event?
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pretty much all mankind ... imho




posthuman said:
who chooses the ((outwardly)) best land
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Lot ... when he saw that it was good

Genesis 13:10 And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the LORD ...

As mentioned, when Lot separated himself from Abraham, he dwelt in the cities of the plain and pitched his tent toward Sodom

Genesis 13:12 Abram dwelled in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelled in the cities of the plain, and pitched his tent toward Sodom.

Did Sodom expand outward toward where Lot pitched his tent in the time Lot lived there?

Did Lot choose to live in the city of Sodom after he was rescued as shown in Gen 14?

We know Lot was fearful based on some of the comments God makes. When Abraham rescued Lot, did Lot decide to live in the city because when he lived outside the city he was taken captive (although Sodom was taken captive at that time as well)?




posthuman said:
and Who humbly lets them have it, knowing the end, theologically?
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God told Abraham in Gen 12:7:

Genesis 12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

Do you think that if Lot had chosen Canaan to dwell in Abraham would have told him "no, God promised the land to me"??? (rhetorical question ... it didn't happen)
.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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posthuman said:
given the situation when "all the men of the city, both young and old" assemble in a mob to threaten Lot's household in an attempt to gain the bodies of the angles for their own nefarious means, i am going to make the educated guess that Lot's sons were not particularly righteous dudes.

i'm going to guess that Lot is not an idiot
therefore i guess he knew more or less what kind of people his sons were
therefore i am going to guess that, based on his worldly wisdom, of which i presume he had much, that he didn't bother even approaching them seriously; that he figured it was a wasted effort i he would have.
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Why do you not count the sons-in-law the same? And yet Lot approached them.

So Lot went out and spoke to the sons-in-law who were pledged in marriage to his daughters. “Get up,” he said.
“Get out of this place, for the LORD is about to destroy the city!” But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.
Genesis 19:14
 
R

reneweddaybyday

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Magenta said:
Very, very few patriarchs/Biblical figures are presented with no sin.
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only the Lord Jesus Christ was without sin ... all the rest of the descendants of Adam were born in the image / likeness of their parents (and I know you know this ...)
.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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reneweddaybyday said:
only the Lord Jesus Christ was without sin ... all the rest of the descendants of Adam
were born in the image / likeness of their parents (and I know you know this ...)
.
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Yes, but what I said was that very few are presented without sin... such as Daniel, and Joseph, for instance.

Probably even John the baptist... Jesus said John was the greatest .:D. (Matthew 11:11)
 
R

reneweddaybyday

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posthuman said:
therefore i am going to guess that, based on his worldly wisdom, of which i presume he had much, that he didn't bother even approaching them seriously; that he figured it was a wasted effort i he would have.
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so Lot didn't speak to his sons or his daughters ... his children by birth (blood relatives).

but he did go to his sons in law ... his children through marriage (not blood relatives).

hmmm ...
.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Magenta said:
Yes, but what I said was that very few are presented without sin... such as Daniel, and Joseph, for instance.

Probably even John the baptist... Jesus said John was the greatest .:D. (Matthew 11:11)
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John was probably considered greatest because of his position as forerunner to Christ. Even he doubted.
 
R

reneweddaybyday

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Magenta said:
Yes, but what I said was that very few are presented without sin... such as Daniel, and Joseph, for instance.

Probably even John the baptist... Jesus said John was the greatest .:D. (Matthew 11:11)
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yeah ... I know ... just pointed out the obvious ...
.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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posthuman said:
so did Lot. multiple times.

so if God kills people for so much as a glance over the shoulder why does 2 Peter 2 call
Lot an example of righteousness but his wife is supposedly an example of great evil?
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Here is your error, in minimizing what is meant for Mrs. Lot to look back.

That would be like saying, looking at a woman is sin.

When the sin is in looking with lust.
 
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