Is Physical Healing Provided In The Atonement?

[Cameron143]

I don't have to reconcile anything to you ---I have the Healing -----I have laid out what I did ---you can try any method you like if you want healing --and see if it works -----

What I did worked so I don't need to reconcile anything -----you guys are the ones trying to reconcile scripture with all kinds of your thoughts and God has laid out How His Kingdom works and what needs to be adhered to for getting a harvest ---

I think you don't understand what the word work means in the Scripture -----scripture says work out your own Salvation -----how do you perceive that word work

Strong's Concordance
ergon: work
Original Word: ἔργον, ου, τό

Usage: work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.
HELPS Word-studies
2041 érgon (from ergō, "to work, accomplish") – a work or worker who accomplishes something. 2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose)

Faith requires action ------Faith requires a positive response -----God gives you the instructions you have to obey by acting out that faith ---and carry it to completeness --------

Healing is available ------

My apologies. I wasn't trying to offend, but understand. Blessings.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

No not God has changed.
Your statement is without heart and compassion.

I am sorry that you feel this way. But this is not aimed at you but that I feel like we are not fully understanding one another.

Why I should repeat.

No need to repeat because I do feel I am understanding you. I just am not some how communicating to you in a manner that you don't seem offended by.

You are simply judge people. And not just people. You judge your brothers and sisters.

Everyone in the Bible that had been sick for years, Jesus, in the beginning of His Ministry, had to heal without their Faith to show He was the Messiah. But as His reputation became known as a Healer, people, began showing up and EXPECTING by BELIEVING someone would be healed or they even could be healed themselves.

It's no different today.
If you come expecting to be Healed, God will Heal you because You came in Faith.

It matter, because Jesus did the miracles why? The answer you find if you read John 20,31.

I did mention that in the answer above. In the Beginning of Jesus' Ministry, He did Miracles to show He was God. After that, People believed He was sent by God and came in Faith that Jesus would do some great Miracle.

Today you find in deed more healings and miracles on the Mission field. But not in the churches, among believers.

Because those people Believe they will be Healed and God honors them.

Lack on faith?

Not those in the Mission Field, they, are all Faith.

To claim that physical healing is a gurantee for every child of God while living on earth. Is a promiss which is not given in the scripture.

I never said guarantee because I know not everyone believes they can really be Healed. Which is a Lack of Faith.

 

[studentoftheword]

My apologies. I wasn't trying to offend, but understand. Blessings.

No worries -----blessings to you as well ------I understand that God's healing causes great conflict amongst Christians as it is not properly understood nor preached ----and it is sad that we are so ignorant about what the Term Salvation really includes ---which is -wellness ---health and wholeness for us -----and we can't or don't want to grasp this as truth -----and want it


----

 

[wolfwint]

I am sorry that you feel this way. But this is not aimed at you but that I feel like we are not fully understanding one another.

No need to repeat because I do feel I am understanding you. I just am not some how communicating to you in a manner that you don't seem offended by.

Everyone in the Bible that had been sick for years, Jesus, in the beginning of His Ministry, had to heal without their Faith to show He was the Messiah. But as His reputation became known as a Healer, people, began showing up and EXPECTING by BELIEVING someone would be healed or they even could be healed themselves.

It's no different today.
If you come expecting to be Healed, God will Heal you because You came in Faith.

I did mention that in the answer above. In the Beginning of Jesus' Ministry, He did Miracles to show He was God. After that, People believed He was sent by God and came in Faith that Jesus would do some great Miracle.

Because those people Believe they will be Healed and God honors them.

Not those in the Mission Field, they, are all Faith.

I never said guarantee because I know not everyone believes they can really be Healed. Which is a Lack of Faith.

So we can turn one round after the other.
You are saying lack on faith is the reason why people cant be healed.
But you cant show me in scripture that followers of Christ are prommissed a live in health, if they dont lack on faith.
You blame your brothers and sisters in Christ to show not enough faith to the father. So it is there own fault if they stay in there sickness.
You are spreading false teaching!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

So we can turn one round after the other.
You are saying lack on faith is the reason why people cant be healed.
But you cant show me in scripture that followers of Christ are prommissed a live in health, if they dont lack on faith.
You blame your brothers and sisters in Christ to show not enough faith to the father. So it is there own fault if they stay in there sickness.
You are spreading false teaching!

17 For I will restore health to you,
and your wounds I will heal,
declares the Lord

6 “ ‘Nevertheless, I will bring health and healing to it; I will heal my people and will let them enjoy abundant peace and security.

34 He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering.”

James 5:
13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise.
14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working

Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
^
before You say, that's Jesus and His Disciples, what is the Great Commission [GO, and MAKE DISCIPLES], So, You, Myself, ALL Followers of God are DISCIPLES. So, that Verse is for us Today.

Luke 8:
Hearing this, Jesus said to Jairus, “Don’t be afraid; just believe, and she will be healed.”


There's many Scriptures on JUST BELIEVE, which is FAITH, and you will be Healed!
So, how is that a False Doctrine?

 

[TheLearner]

Rules for Those With Skin Diseases
14 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “These are the rules for people who have had a skin disease and have been made well. These rules are for making them clean.

“A priest must look at those who had the skin disease. 3 The priest must go to them outside the camp and look to see if the skin disease is healed. 4 If they are healthy, the priest will tell them to do these things: They must bring two clean birds that are still alive, a piece of cedar wood, a piece of red cloth, and a hyssop plant. 5 Then the priest must order one bird to be killed in a clay bowl over running water. 6 He must take the other bird that is still alive and the piece of cedar wood, the piece of red cloth, and the hyssop plant and dip them in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water. 7 He must sprinkle the blood seven times on those who had the skin disease. Then he must announce that they are clean. After that the priest must go to an open field and let the living bird go free.

8 “The people going through this purification ceremony must wash their clothes, shave off all their hair, and wash with water. Then they will be clean. They may then go into the camp, but they must stay outside their tent for seven days. 9 On the seventh day, they must shave off all their hair. They must shave their head, their beard, and their eyebrows—yes, all their hair. Then they must wash their clothes and bathe their bodies in water. Then they will be clean.

10 “On the eighth day, anyone who had a skin disease must take two male lambs that have nothing wrong with them and a one-year-old female lamb that has nothing wrong with it. They must also take 24 cups[d] of fine flour mixed with oil for a grain offering and 2/3 of a pint[e] of olive oil. 11 The priest must bring that person and those sacrifices before the Lord at the entrance of the Meeting Tent. (This must be the same priest who announced that the person is clean.) 12 The priest will take one of the lambs and the oil as a guilt offering. He will lift them in front of the Lord to show they were presented to God. 13 Then the priest will kill the male lamb in the holy place where they kill the sin offering and the burnt offering. Like the sin offering, the guilt offering belongs to the priest. It is very holy.

14 “The priest will take some of the blood of the guilt offering. He will put some of this blood on the tip of the right ear of the person to be made clean. The priest will put some of this blood on the thumb of the right hand and on the big toe of the right foot of that person. 15 The priest will also take some of the oil and pour it into his own left palm. 16 Then the priest will dip the finger of his right hand into the oil that is in his left palm. He will use his finger to sprinkle some of the oil seven times before the Lord. 17 Then he will put some of the oil that is in his palm on the person to be made clean. He will put that oil on the same places he put the blood of the guilt offering. The priest will put some of the oil on the tip of the person’s right ear, on the thumb of the right hand, and on the big toe of the person’s right foot. 18 He will put the oil that is left in his palm on the head of the person to be made clean. In this way he will make that person pure before the Lord.

19 “Then the priest must offer the sin offering to make that person pure. After that he will kill the animal for the burnt offering. 20 He will then offer up the burnt offering and the grain offering on the altar. In this way the priest will make that person pure, and that person will become clean.

21 “A poor person might not be able to afford all these offerings. So that poor person can use one male lamb as a guilt offering. It will be presented to God so that the priest can make that person pure. The poor person must take 8 cups[f] of fine flour mixed with oil. This flour will be used for a grain offering. The poor person must also take 2/3 of a pint of olive oil 22 and two doves or two young pigeons. Even poor people can afford these things. One bird will be a sin offering, and the other will be a burnt offering.

23 “On the eighth day, that person will bring these things to the priest at the entrance of the Meeting Tent. These things will be offered before the Lord so that the person can become clean. 24 The priest will take the lamb for the guilt offering and the oil, and he will lift them up to show they were offered before the Lord. 25 Then he will kill the lamb of the guilt offering, take some of its blood, and put it on the tip of the right ear of the person to be made clean. The priest will put some of this blood on the thumb of the right hand and on the big toe of the right foot of this person. 26 He will also pour some of this oil into his own left palm.

 

[TheLearner]

sin offering
noun

: a sacrifice for sin : something offered as an expiation for sin
specifically : an animal sacrifice in ancient Jewish religious ceremony in which the blood is smeared on the altar, the choice and fat parts are burned there, and the remainder is burned outside the sanctuary

atonement
noun
atone·ment ə-ˈtōn-mənt

Synonyms of atonement
1
: reparation for an offense or injury : SATISFACTION
a story of sin and atonement

He wanted to find a way to make atonement for his sins.


2
: the reconciliation of God and humankind through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ

3
Christian Science : the exemplifying of human oneness with God

4
obsolete : RECONCILIATION

 

[TheLearner]

The setting at one, or reconciliation, of two estranged parties—translation used in the Authorized Version for "kapparah," "kippurim." The root

("kipper"), to make atonement, is explained by W. Robertson Smith ("Old Testament in the Jewish Church," i. 439), after the Syriac, as meaning "to wipe out." This is also the view taken by Zimmern ("Beiträge zur Kenntniss der Babylonischen Religion," 1899, p. 92), who claims Babylonian origin for both the term and the rite. Wellhausen ("Composition des Hextateuchs," p. 335) translates "kapparah" as if derived from "kapper" (to cover). The verb, however, seems to be a derivative from the noun "kofer" (ransom) anhttps://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6934-guilt-offeringd to have meant originally "to atone."

https://www.pastortheologians.com/a...6-qJTPDUpZWOtgMa6M-sWH5jFGledB9oaAlwoEALw_wcB

 

[TheLearner]

The setting at one, or reconciliation, of two estranged parties—translation used in the Authorized Version for "kapparah," "kippurim." The root

("kipper"), to make atonement, is explained by W. Robertson Smith ("Old Testament in the Jewish Church," i. 439), after the Syriac, as meaning "to wipe out." This is also the view taken by Zimmern ("Beiträge zur Kenntniss der Babylonischen Religion," 1899, p. 92), who claims Babylonian origin for both the term and the rite. Wellhausen ("Composition des Hextateuchs," p. 335) translates "kapparah" as if derived from "kapper" (to cover). The verb, however, seems to be a derivative from the noun "kofer" (ransom) anhttps://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6934-guilt-offeringd to have meant originally "to atone."

https://www.pastortheologians.com/a...6-qJTPDUpZWOtgMa6M-sWH5jFGledB9oaAlwoEALw_wcB

 

[TheLearner]

Having been restored to his community and household, he is still impure vis-à-vis the realm of the sacred: he has to be rehabilitated in the eyes of his God (ten times the text insists that the ritual is "before the Lord," Lev. 14:11–31). In the eighth-day ritual – the third and final stage – he therefore brings to the sanctuary a complex of sacrifices. The purification offering purges the sacred area of the defilement brought on by his "leprosy" (see *Atonement ); the whole and meal offerings expiate the sin that might have caused his affliction (e.g., Miriam, see above); the reparation offering is his expiation in case he has trespassed on sancta (maʿal, a sin punishable by leprosy, e.g., Uzziah, II Chron. 26:16–21; cf. Lev. 5:14–19; and see *Sacrifices ). The blood of the animal of reparation and the oil are successively daubed on the extremities of his body so that he may have access to the sanctuary and its sancta (as far as allowed to a layman). That sanctification is the purpose of this ritual is demonstrated by the consecration service of the priest (Ex. 29; Lev. 8), where the daubing of the same parts of the body is prescribed and where a mixture of oil and sacrificial blood is used (in sprinkling, not in daubing: note verb qadesh "sanctify." Ex. 29:21; Lev. 8:30). Israel's sanctification motif is illuminated by comparison with similarly structured rituals in the ancient Near East, where there is abundant attestation of daubing (see *Anointing ). The incantations recited during the ritual smearing of persons, the statues of gods, and buildings testify that its object is purificatory and apotropaic: to wipe off and ward off the incursions of menacing demonic forces. Hence it is always the vulnerable parts of bodies (extremities) and of structures (corners, entrances) that are smeared with substances with alleged special properties (e.g., Pritchard, Texts, 338). The Bible's "leprosy" laws are directed toward the larger community and do not constitute a priest's manual.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/leprosy

 

[TheLearner]

I was just poking around.

 

[Evmur]

Good post! The idea of healing in the atonement is not only unscriptural, but it produces major pastoral problems among sick christians who live with condemnation because of it.

God is not backslidden, the Holy Ghost is not unbelieving. The church is backslidden and unbelieving. The sooner we get to the place of admitting that the problem is not God, not God's word, the better it will be for us and for the world which cries to us for answers that really, really work.

I include myself in the indictment when I say the church is in a hopelessly, helplessly backslidden state. I am the church.

We'll stop making excuses, making up false doctrines and philosophies as to why the sick are not healed, why we see no miracles. We'll stop re-interpreting God's word to make it not say what it clearly does say.

Bless the Lord o my soul and forget not ALL His benefits
who forgiveth ALL thine iniquities who healeth ALL thine diseases
who satisfieth thy mouth [YOU] with good things.

Nobody doubts or questions that He forgiveth all thine iniquities, the whole church is rock solid and cries with one united voice. God will always forgive the repentant sinner. Never would He cast such a one out.

But when we come to He healeth all thine diseases we begin to cough and splutter.

Now look I've said this often, the church went through centuries of utter darkness when hardly a twinkle of gospel light appeared to break up the gloom.

The Holy Ghost didn't cease to work during all that time, He ceased to work openly, with demonstration, the gifts ceased to operate among the congregation. WHY? because the church had backslidden and was no longer operating along new testament lines. A FALSE ministry was set up, a priesthood installed, a clergy class. All the things that had been done away when the veil in the temple was rent.

The Holy Ghost still worked but He worked secretly. People still got saved.

The church joined hands with the government and looked to the government for protection ... The church still does look to the government to protect it.

If the truth were known the reformation as great as it was, earth shaking, yet it has only just scratched the surface. The reformation only recovered but the basics, the beginnings of salvation doctrines. We got stuck on the doctrines of Calvin or Arminius which opened the door to a perfect tsunami of doctrines of men.

We need to get back to the pure word of God, back to the bible.

The salvation of the bible was a total salvation for the whole man. it's body, soul and spirit. Pardon, healing and deliverance.

 

[wolfwint]

17 For I will restore health to you,
and your wounds I will heal,
declares the Lord

6 “ ‘Nevertheless, I will bring health and healing to it; I will heal my people and will let them enjoy abundant peace and security.

34 He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering.”

James 5:
13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise.
14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working

Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
^
before You say, that's Jesus and His Disciples, what is the Great Commission [GO, and MAKE DISCIPLES], So, You, Myself, ALL Followers of God are DISCIPLES. So, that Verse is for us Today.

Luke 8:
Hearing this, Jesus said to Jairus, “Don’t be afraid; just believe, and she will be healed.”


There's many Scriptures on JUST BELIEVE, which is FAITH, and you will be Healed!
So, how is that a False Doctrine?

Well, in the most examples Jesus heals for to proofes that he is the Messajah. Yes, with the Intention that they believe his word and trust him and his heavenly father. For to be saved for eternity.
James 5 is a passage which shows that the authority to heal lays in the hands of the eldest of the church. Which should pray for the sin confessing believer.
So where are the churches today where this is practized as it is written?
You are speaking not to people which dont know Jesus.
Your Adressat are children of God, which are already have shown that they trust Jesus. Otherwise they would not be children of God.
Now these people have lack on faith?
Because they are not be healed?
The reality shows from beginning of churchhistory that believers become sick and deseases and finaly die. And not only because of old age weakness.
If you are claiming now that every sick believer will be healed if he has just enough faith. Then I call this a false doctrine. Because it is simply not true.
What is true is, that the Lord can heal every believer. Thats why we pray to our heavenly father for heal a person. Finaly it is his decision to do it or not. I trust in anyway he is doing the right. And he loves us!

 

[TheLearner]

James 5
13 Are you having troubles? You should pray. Are you happy? You should sing. 14 Are you sick? Ask the elders of the church to come and rub oil on you[d] in the name of the Lord and pray for you. 15 If such a prayer is offered in faith, it will heal anyone who is sick. The Lord will heal them. And if they have sinned, he will forgive them.

16 So always tell each other the wrong things you have done. Then pray for each other. Do this so that God can heal you. Anyone who lives the way God wants can pray, and great things will happen. 17 Elijah was a person just like us. He prayed that it would not rain. And it did not rain on the land for three and a half years! 18 Then Elijah prayed that it would rain. And the rain came down from the sky, and the land grew crops again.

Note: it is the faith of the elders. I never thought of that, whoose faith is needed for healing?

 

[TheLearner]

Psalm 147
Easy-to-Read Version
147 Praise the Lord because he is good.
Sing praises to our God.
It is good and pleasant to praise him.
2 The Lord rebuilds Jerusalem.
He brings back the Israelites who were taken as prisoners.
3 He heals their broken hearts
and bandages their wounds.
4 He counts the stars
and knows each of them by name.
5 Our Lord is great and powerful.
There is no limit to what he knows.
6 The Lord supports the humble,
but he shames the wicked.
7 Give thanks to the Lord.
Praise our God with harps.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Well, in the most examples Jesus heals for to proofes that he is the Messajah. Yes, with the Intention that they believe his word and trust him and his heavenly father. For to be saved for eternity.
James 5 is a passage which shows that the authority to heal lays in the hands of the eldest of the church. Which should pray for the sin confessing believer.
So where are the churches today where this is practized as it is written?
You are speaking not to people which dont know Jesus.
Your Adressat are children of God, which are already have shown that they trust Jesus. Otherwise they would not be children of God.
Now these people have lack on faith?
Because they are not be healed?
The reality shows from beginning of churchhistory that believers become sick and deseases and finaly die. And not only because of old age weakness.
If you are claiming now that every sick believer will be healed if he has just enough faith. Then I call this a false doctrine. Because it is simply not true.
What is true is, that the Lord can heal every believer. Thats why we pray to our heavenly father for heal a person. Finaly it is his decision to do it or not. I trust in anyway he is doing the right. And he loves us!

Yeah, when I read this discussion thread, I remembered reading about Pastor David Wilkerson's grand daughter. Cancer runs in the family of David Wilkerson's wife. She herself struggled with the battle her whole life and fortunately lived quite a long time and even survived her husband. But a lot of her relatives didn't. Her grand daughter only made it into her early teens. And she was also a believer.

And there are other Christians too I've known or heard about who weren't healed. I think it's for a greater purpose though. I don't think God would allow a child of His to suffer unnecessarily unless it helps either that person or someone else to grow in some way.

 

[TheLearner]

Matthew 17:14-20
Easy-to-Read Version
Jesus Frees a Boy From an Evil Spirit
14 Jesus and the followers went back to the people. A man came to Jesus and bowed before him. 15 The man said, “Lord, be kind to my son. He suffers so much from the seizures he has. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16 I brought him to your followers, but they could not heal him.”

17 Jesus answered, “You people today have no faith. Your lives are so wrong! How long must I stay with you? How long must I continue to be patient with you? Bring the boy here.” 18 Jesus gave a strong command to the demon inside the boy. The demon came out of the boy, and the boy was healed.

19 Then the followers came to Jesus alone. They said, “We tried to force the demon out of the boy, but we could not. Why were we not able to make the demon go out?”

20 Jesus answered, “You were not able to make the demon go out, because your faith is too small. Believe me when I tell you, if your faith is only as big as a mustard seed you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. You will be able to do anything.”

 

[TheLearner]

Mark 9:14-29
Easy-to-Read Version
Jesus Frees a Boy From an Evil Spirit
14 Then Jesus, Peter, James, and John went to the other followers. They saw many people around them. The teachers of the law were arguing with the followers. 15 When the people saw Jesus, they were very surprised and ran to welcome him.

16 Jesus asked, “What are you arguing about with the teachers of the law?”

17 A man answered, “Teacher, I brought my son to you. He is controlled by an evil spirit that keeps him from talking. 18 The spirit attacks him and throws him on the ground. He foams at the mouth, grinds his teeth, and becomes very stiff. I asked your followers to force the evil spirit out, but they could not.”

19 Jesus answered, “You people today don’t believe! How long must I stay with you? How long must I be patient with you? Bring the boy to me!”

20 So the followers brought the boy to Jesus. When the evil spirit saw Jesus, it attacked the boy. The boy fell down and rolled on the ground. He was foaming at the mouth.

21 Jesus asked the boy’s father, “How long has this been happening to him?”

The father answered, “Since he was very young. 22 The spirit often throws him into a fire or into water to kill him. If you can do anything, please have pity on us and help us.”

23 Jesus said to the father, “Why did you say ‘if you can’? All things are possible for the one who believes.”

24 Immediately the father shouted, “I do believe. Help me to believe more!”

25 Jesus saw that all the people were running there to see what was happening. So he spoke to the evil spirit. He said, “You evil spirit that makes this boy deaf and stops him from talking—I command you to come out of him and never enter him again!”

26 The evil spirit screamed. It caused the boy to fall on the ground again, and then it came out. The boy looked as if he was dead. Many people said, “He is dead!” 27 But Jesus took hold of his hand and helped him stand up.

28 Then Jesus went into the house. His followers were alone with him there. They said, “Why weren’t we able to force that evil spirit out?”

29 Jesus answered, “That kind of spirit can be forced out only with prayer.[a]”

Read full chapter
Footnotes
Mark 9:29 prayer Some Greek copies have “prayer and fasting.”

 

[TheLearner]

Luke 9:37-43
Easy-to-Read Version
Jesus Frees a Boy From an Evil Spirit
37 The next day, Jesus, Peter, John, and James came down from the mountain. A large group of people met Jesus. 38 A man in the group shouted to him, “Teacher, please come and look at my son. He is the only child I have. 39 An evil spirit comes into him, and then he shouts. He loses control of himself and foams at the mouth. The evil spirit continues to hurt him and almost never leaves him. 40 I begged your followers to make the evil spirit leave my son, but they could not do it.”

41 Jesus answered, “You people today have no faith. Your lives are all wrong. How long must I be with you and be patient with you?” Then Jesus said to the man, “Bring your son here.”

42 While the boy was coming, the demon threw the boy to the ground. The boy lost control of himself. But Jesus gave a strong command to the evil spirit. Then the boy was healed, and Jesus gave him back to his father. 43 All the people were amazed at the great power of God.

Jesus Talks About His Death
The people were still amazed about all the things Jesus did. He said to his followers,

 

[TheLearner]

https://www.supernaturaltruth.com/who-needs-to-have-faith-for-healing