Ukraine the bad guy?

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gb9

Senior Member
#2,081
Jan 18, 2011
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JohnDB said:
Oh I've done mine....and know that you cannot provide a link to something that doesn't exist. It absolutely does not. All the claims made are from a Russian propagandist working out of Serbia.
(In case you were curious to the origin)

Because it never happened, was promised, not part of any agreement or treaty.
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so, i gave you names of heads of states. you did not look them up.'
i gave you an exact quote. you did not look it up.

i gave you a timeline. you did not look it up.

so, therefore, i conclude that you have made up your mine that it is all russian propaganda.

so, though this is a waste of time ( which is exactly why i do not do links),

i will give a site, but will not link it.

nsarchive.gwu.edu.

and if you go there and see what i an others is exactly what we said, we will await you apology.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

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#2,082
Jan 16, 2021
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gb9 said:
so, i gave you names of heads of states. you did not look them up.'
i gave you an exact quote. you did not look it up.

i gave you a timeline. you did not look it up.

so, therefore, i conclude that you have made up your mine that it is all russian propaganda.

so, though this is a waste of time ( which is exactly why i do not do links),

i will give a site, but will not link it.

nsarchive.gwu.edu.

and if you go there and see what i an others is exactly what we said, we will await you apology.
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The site is huge....I need a map of the site or exact name of the article to direct me to the article you claim you are quoting.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

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Here is a link to a document that concerns the reunification of Germany about "not one inch forward" from the site YOU stated. It in fact PROVES THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF YOUR CLAIMS. THE EXACT PRECISE OPPOSITE.

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/22399-document-4-gates-kryuchkov-memcon-kgb

But it's crap....it's a PERSONAL GUARANTEE.....not a national treaty signed between nations. It has absolutely nothing to do with today and it was to Gorbachev not Putin....it also was by Bush's spokesperson which Gorbachev knew was only as good as long as Bush was President.

Because the USSR was crumbling into chaos and Gorbachev wanted Russia itself to remain intact....even though the USSR was essentially defunct. (Not really but in effect it was falling apart)

Gorbachev drew the lines for Ukraine himself. He knew best. And it didn't include Russia controlling Ukraine.


So your best evidence proves you wrong....as I suspected all along. But you continue on with your wrongness....as I suspected.
 
cv5

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Whatever happened to the Ukraine gold reserves? Same thing that happened to those of Libya and Iraq.

The gold stack is always the first thing to go after a nation gets Nuland-ized.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#2,085
Jan 18, 2011
12,320
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JohnDB said:
Here is a link to a document that concerns the reunification of Germany about "not one inch forward" from the site YOU stated. It in fact PROVES THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF YOUR CLAIMS. THE EXACT PRECISE OPPOSITE.

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/22399-document-4-gates-kryuchkov-memcon-kgb

But it's crap....it's a PERSONAL GUARANTEE.....not a national treaty signed between nations. It has absolutely nothing to do with today and it was to Gorbachev not Putin....it also was by Bush's spokesperson which Gorbachev knew was only as good as long as Bush was President.

Because the USSR was crumbling into chaos and Gorbachev wanted Russia itself to remain intact....even though the USSR was essentially defunct. (Not really but in effect it was falling apart)

Gorbachev drew the lines for Ukraine himself. He knew best. And it didn't include Russia controlling Ukraine.


So your best evidence proves you wrong....as I suspected all along. But you continue on with your wrongness....as I suspected.
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use the same site i gave you and add " nato expansion what gorbachev heard".

so, after saying it never happened , it does not exist, you now say it DID happen but it does not count...

:cool::cool::cool::cool:
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

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Jan 16, 2021
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gb9 said:
use the same site i gave you and add " nato expansion what gorbachev heard".

so, after saying it never happened , it does not exist, you now say it DID happen but it does not count...

:cool::cool::cool::cool:
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Your quote only works IF It is taken completely out of context and twisted to mean something it doesn't mean.
Which is what you have done.

Did you ever read it?
Understand the context?
Understand the players?
Understand anything that was written in the document?

OBVIOUSLY NOT!

Like if somehow the USA had a treaty with Czechloslovakia....would it be binding today?
(Czechloslovakia doesn't exist anymore)

How about a treaty with the Roman Empire?

Babylonian empire?

How about what actually happened and the context of what was really said and not a fragment of a sentence twisted completely out of context. I'd settle for that instead of this fantasy you have created out of whole cloth.


Or how about the Non-proliferation Treaty that Russia signed with which Putin himself agreed to and SIGNED? It isn't anywhere near as out of date as the twattle you are quoting as hotly signed imaginarium.
 
Dropship

Dropship

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Aug 8, 2023
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Gideon300 said:
..Would I prefer Russia to Ukraine? No..
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Putin might have had a little more sympathy from the west if he'd held a referendum BEFORE invading Ukraine to see if the Russian-speaking people in the east of Ukraine wanted to become part of Russia.
When he eventually got round to holding the referendum AFTER invading, most of the people voted "yes", but by then most of the world had turned against him.

Ukr-crim-donbas.jpg
 
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Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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Dropship said:
Putin might have had a little more sympathy from the west if he'd held a referendum BEFORE invading Ukraine to see if the Russian-speaking people in the east of Ukraine wanted to become part of Russia.
When he eventually got round to holding the referendum AFTER invading, most of the people voted "yes", but by then most of the world had turned against him.

View attachment 254489
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"Most of the people voted "yes"". And Putin is the reincarnation of Sata Clause. I tend not to believe serial liars. In any case, the occupied territories are Ukrainian, not Russian. If people want to join Russia, they can migrate.

Ukraine is a sovereign nation. How many countries would accept a foreign country conducting a referendum in their territory? It's absurd. If Ukraine had chosen to conduct a referendum, that would be a different story. It may help to know that the territories annexed by Russia were industrialised and a major contributor to Ukraine's economy. Don't be deceived. Putin wants all of Ukraine and all of the former soviet countries back under his control. How can I be so sure? He's said as much and he's carrying out his desire. If he is not stopped now, it will escalate and many more people will suffer.
 
cv5

cv5

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ZNP

ZNP

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Sep 14, 2020
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cv5 said:
Correct. Russia's battle plan has been a success. They are now moving further into Ukrainian territory. This after defenses have been bolstered, reserves set in place and earlier objectives met.
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Americas battle plans have also been a success, to fight to the last Ukrainian.
 
G

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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cv5 said:
Whatever happened to the Ukraine gold reserves? Same thing that happened to those of Libya and Iraq.

The gold stack is always the first thing to go after a nation gets Nuland-ized.
Click to expand...
When Ukraine became independent, she was indebted to Russia for gas supplies. To pay the debt, Ukraine sent a good deal of military hardware to Russia. It seemed like a good idea at the time as Russia was not a threat. Now it was obviously a bad idea. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If Ukraine had not dismantled its nukes, we woud not be having this conversation. If Ukraine had not shipped its long range bombers to Russia, things would be much different now. Russia invaded Ukraine because Ukraine was weak. That's it. Putin wants the former USSR reconsituted. If you think that is a good thing, say so. Personally, I do not. I know enough of Soviet history to want Russia to collapse into the ethnic states that make it up. Putin started off OK. Now he's just another megalomaniac with delusions of grandeur. But one with nuclear weapons.
 
cv5

cv5

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Say what?

"It will be a very difficult political season, I warn everyone. These voices (about negotiations) are getting louder. We will do everything within the framework of international law and criminal law to make these voices disappear," said the Ukrainian minister.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1690314163166330880
 
BearerOfTheMorningStar

BearerOfTheMorningStar

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May 24, 2023
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The Wicked Russians pray to God to help them execute their wicked lies and schemes to steal Ukraine and murder Ukrainians for a lie. The Wicked Russians pray to God to let them keep the stolen area of Urozhaine and that their wicked servants would survive. A day after their wicked prayers my Lord Jesus answers by strengthening Ukraine to all out assault Urozhaine as they valiantly fight to reclaim their stolen land from the enemy who attacked them for a Lie. Today we can say that the Lord has answered our prayers and delivered Urozhaine to valiant Ukraine. Above even this God not only gave victory to Ukraine but refused to even let the Wicked Russians escape, but by the power of his own mighty hand God moved them to the precise place to be slaughtered en masse. Wicked Russia remains excommunicated and slated to be destroyed for the reason that they thought they could lie to God and murder their brothers for a lie and escape the judgement of the God of Truth. Strong is the God that fights against Wicked Russia and strengthens Valiant Ukraine, PRAISE JESUS!

The complete Urozhaine Saga starting with the Wicked Russian prayer and ending with God's answer, PRAISE JESUS:




 
Dropship

Dropship

Banned
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Aug 8, 2023
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Gideon300 said:
Some seem to imagine that Russia is justified in waging war against Ukraine..
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Well Ukraine has been hammering pro-Russian eastern Ukraine for many years, for example here's an eastern Ukraine woman who had her legs blown off by a Ukrainian airstrike (I've blanked out the gore), but of course our western media won't show stuff like this because they're so obsessed with pumping out anti-Putin propaganda-

Lugansk1-2014_censored.jpg
 
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