Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[SpeakTruth101]

What did they preach after becoming disciples? What was their message?

Matthew 10
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

That is indeed part of the gospel, and that was earlier in Yahshua's mission, were they supposed to know things that had not yet been revealed to them? DO you have a problem with Yahshua's disciples? Do you not accept them as have new covenant doctrine?

however you are ignoring other things Yahshua/Jesus told them, that I just posted

Luke 24:45-47,Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it has been written, and so it was necessary for the Messiah to suffer and to rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in His Name to all nations, beginning at Yerushalayim.


Mat 28:19-20,28:19, “Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set-apart Spirit, and make disciples of all the nations, immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set-apart Spirit. Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

 

[John146]

That is indeed part of the gospel, and that was earlier in Yahshua's mission, were they supposed to know things that had not yet been revealed to them? DO you have a problem with Yahshua's disciples? Do you not accept them as have new covenant doctrine?

What was the purpose of their preaching? Could their preaching bring salvation? And no, I do not accept what they preached prior to the cross as NT doctrine for the body of Christ. The NT was not in force until the death of the testator.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

What was the purpose of their preaching?

A disciple carries the doctrine of their superior, in this case they were taught to teach eveything Yahshua had taught them:

Mat 28:19-20,28:19, “Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set-apart Spirit, and make disciples of all the nations, immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set-apart Spirit. Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Could their preaching bring salvation?

Yes because they taught what Yahshua told them to, here is Peterqutoing the thing YHWH had said thousands of years before, explaining that it was a prophecy about Yahshua/Jesus

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

 

[SpeakTruth101]

And no, I do not accept what they preached prior to the cross as NT doctrine for the body of Christ. The NT was not in force until the death of the testator.

So you dont believe in Yahshua's words as part of the gospel?

I have to say I do. I would point you to the above passage in the last post and these also

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Maybe that is why many people disagree with me, I believe His words are life and others believe His words are void.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

The NT was not in force until the death of the testator.

The ratification went into effect with the shedding of blood, that does not mean Yahsua message is not valid.

Hopefully I explained well mailman

 

[brightfame52]

SO if I hear and seek to obey His words Im bad guy? maybe I want to do what He says because He offered Himself on my behalf.

I take what He says to heart

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Nothing wrong with seeking to obey God, however, thats not my Righteousness before Him.

 

[rogerg]

The ratification went into effect with the shedding of blood, that does not mean Yahsua message is not valid.

Hopefully I explained well mailman

Reading your posts is becoming painful because you seem evasive (at least to me). Let's cut to the chase and make this as simple as possible so that we can understand your core, most fundamental belief, upon which you've built everything else.

choose one of the following:

a) salvation is purely given as a gift by God's mercy and grace through Jesus Christ alone with no contribution possible from its recipient.
or
b) it is by the recipient's keeping of the law.

a and b are mutually exclusive so it would be a logical impossibility to combine or overlap them. No answer, or a reply other than an a or b, will be interpreted as b.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Nothing wrong with seeking to obey God, however, thats not my Righteousness before Him.

SO if I hear and seek to obey His words Im bad guy? maybe I want to do what He says because He offered Himself on my behalf.

I take what He says to heart

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

I have never said anything different, I simply said I want to do what He says because He offered Himself on my behalf. It almost like when anyone says obedience is a good thing they are assumed to be "justified by works" No obedience to the Creator of all that is remains a good thing, no matter if one is near perfect or barely hanging on I think a it's a good intention of the heart.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Reading your posts is becoming painful because you seem evasive (at least to me). Let's cut to the chase and make this as simple as possible so that we can understand your core, most fundamental belief, upon which you've built everything else.

choose one of the following:

a) salvation is purely given as a gift by God's mercy and grace through Jesus Christ alone with no contribution possible from its recipient.
or
b) it is by the recipient's keeping of the law.

a and b are mutually exclusive so it would be a logical impossibility to combine or overlap them. No answer, or a reply other than an a or b, will be interpreted as b.

There is not evasion on my part, I have repeatedly stated my views and been strongly disagreed with and called names, I have faced evil people in real life that don't even believe that have given me much harder opposition and I have not stopped speaking and believing. Those are not the only options, and neither are correct because without faith none can please Him. So at bare minimum it takes faith from the human.

Peter says

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master,..."

Jude says

James 2:19-20, "You believe that YHWH is one. (Deu 6:4) You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder! But do you wish to know, O foolish man, that the belief without the works is dead?"

Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”

Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”

My take is that it takes faith, not lip service, a faith that does not follow Him is not faith at all, so it takes genuine faith, a faith that is not hating Him or His ways, a faith that is willing to give up every earthly desire and follow Him. That faith will produce right fruits, but it is not the fruits that save, it is YHWH that saves.

I want to add, this is Scripture yet if I repeated it you would all yell and scream at me

James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"


I believe it to be true, but not in the way accusatory cretins with evil hearts will use a guise of sheep covering to hide the ravenous wolf underneath. I believe it means real faith is only real if it produces fruit. A faith the does not produce fruit is imitation faith. Again it is not the fruit/works that save because if we were judged by works strictly, with not mercy and no consideration everyone would fall short, including me.

Say what you will, I am not ashamed of this and will gladly say it, and any who say real faith does not produce some level of heart, mind and action change to me is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Finally please do not edit this in a quote or twist my words, I am not responsible for someone misrepresenting me to slander, that it is upon their own head.

 

[rogerg]

There is not evasion on my part, I have repeatedly stated my views and been strongly disagreed with and called names, I have faced evil people in real life that don't even believe that have given me much harder opposition and I have not stopped speaking and believing. Those are not the only options, and neither are correct because without faith none can please Him. So at bare minimum it takes faith from the human.

Peter says

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master,..."

Jude says

James 2:19-20, "You believe that YHWH is one. (Deu 6:4) You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder! But do you wish to know, O foolish man, that the belief without the works is dead?"

Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”

Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”

My take is that it takes faith, not lip service, a faith that does not follow Him is not faith at all, so it takes genuine faith, a faith that is not hating Him or His ways, a faith that is willing to give up every earthly desire and follow Him. That faith will produce right fruits, but it is not the fruits that save, it is YHWH that saves.

I want to add, this is Scripture yet if I repeated it you would all yell and scream at me

James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"


I believe it to be true, but not in the way accusatory cretins with evil hearts will use a guise of sheep covering to hide the ravenous wolf underneath. I believe it means real faith is only real if it produces fruit. A faith the does not produce fruit is imitation faith. Again it is not the fruit/works that save because if we were judged by works strictly, with not mercy and no consideration everyone would fall short, including me.

Say what you will, I am not ashamed of this and will gladly say it, and any who say real faith does not produce some level of heart, mind and action change to me is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Finally please do not edit this in a quote or twist my words, I am not responsible for someone misrepresenting me to slander, that it is upon their own head.

Huh? does that mean an a or b? Just reply with one of those letters.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Huh? does that mean an a or b? Just reply with one of those letters.

Huh?

Those are not the only options, and neither are correct because without faith none can please Him. So at bare minimum it takes faith from the human.

Im not bound to your opinion, you cant ask me my view and then say I have to pick from your understanding/options.

They are both wrong because neither of your choices includes faith....

a) salvation is purely given as a gift by God's mercy and grace through Jesus Christ alone with no contribution possible from its recipient.
or
b) it is by the recipient's keeping of the law.

One without faith will not recieve salvation.

 

[rogerg]

Huh?



Im not bound to your opinion, you cant ask me my view and then say I have to pick from your understanding/options.

They are both wrong because neither of your choices includes faith....



One without faith will not recieve salvation.

Well, then that makes it b - or by law - because if you don't provide it, then you can't be saved - thereby making faith a law of salvation, right? No faith, no salvation, can't be a

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Well, then that makes it b - or by law - because if you don't provide it, then you can't be saved - thereby making faith a law of salvation, right? No faith, no salvation, can't be a

You are so dishonest, no matter what I say you are going to make up you own straw man and beat it up.

SO now even having faith is works? WOW. Explain to me how YHWH saves people who have no faith in Him? The unbelievers....

 

[rogerg]

You are so dishonest, no matter what I say you are going to make up you own straw man and beat it up.

Explain to me of YHWH saves people who have no faith in Him? The unbelievers....

How? Nobody has true faith before becoming saved. True faith comes with being born again as a fruit of the Spirit.
Not before. I already told you this but apparently you ignored it. One's faith does not save - it is a byproduct OF salvation. Those saved, are saved, solely because God had chosen them to/for salvation, and because of that, He makes them born again and gives
to them true faith - it is a gift and would therefore be of a, not b.

 

[rogerg]

Explain to me of YHWH saves people who have no faith in Him? The unbelievers....

More specifically, He makes of them, true believers. God's work, not ours.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

How? Nobody has true faith before becoming saved. True faith comes with being born again as a fruit of the Spirit.
Not before. I already told you this but apparently you ignored it. One's faith does not save - it is a byproduct OF salvation. Those saved, are saved, solely because God had chosen them to/for salvation, and because of that, He makes them born again and gives
to them true faith - it is a gift and would therefore be of a, not b.

Nobody calls out to YHWH, prays, asks for mercy or accepts Yahshua without at least a shred of faith.

You forumula of no faith, would mean that one does not even have to believe in Yahshua to be saved.

 

[rogerg]

Nobody calls out to YHWH, prays, asks for mercy or accepts Yahshua without at least a shred of faith.

You forumula of no faith, would mean that one does not even have to believe in Yahshua to be saved.

Right, they don't, and they won't. It is God's divine prerogative and good please to save whom He will with no
acquiescence nor approval needed or possible in order for Him to do so. He is God.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Right, they don't, and they won't. It is God's divine prerogative and good please to save whom He will with no
acquiescence nor approval needed or possible in order for Him to do so. He is God.

Where is your Scripture showing people with no faith are saved?

John 5:14,Afterward יהושע found him in the Set-apart Place, and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, so that no worse matter befalls you.”

John 8:10-11,And יהושע, straightening up and seeing no one but the woman, said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Did no one condemn you?”And she said, “No one, Master.” And יהושע said to her, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.”

You must really disagree with Yahshua's disciple, he even calls for repentance:

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

But Yahshua did teach them that and tell them to teach others

Luke 24:45-47,Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it has been written, and so it was necessary for the Messiah to suffer and to rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in His Name to all nations, beginning at Yerushalayim.

Mark 16:15-16, “And He said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the Good News to every creature.“He who has believed and has been immersed, shall be saved, but he who has not believed shall be condemned.”

John 8:24, “Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”

John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”

 

[rogerg]

Nobody calls out to YHWH, prays, asks for mercy or accepts Yahshua without at least a shred of faith.

Our faith is not a prerequisite to salvation. If we should think that we have provided faith of ourselves, then we haven't.