Andy Stanley's Apostasy
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In regard to Judas Iscariot, in John 13:10-11, we read - Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” For He knew who would betray Him; therefore, He said, “You are not all clean.”
Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11)
John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost. Judas was not included in those "whom the Father gave to Jesus to be kept."
Syllogism
1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father
Or this way.
1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father
Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11)
John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost. Judas was not included in those "whom the Father gave to Jesus to be kept."
Syllogism
1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father
Or this way.
1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father
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Than you should quit posting immediately!
Those claiming one can never lose their salvation even if one lives in sin... is mocking God according to Gal 6:7,8 which clearly states that God is NOT mocked... we reap what we so and if we sow to the flesh (sin), we shall of the flesh reap corruption which is spiritual death, aka being separated from God
This is why God's Word teaches that one should NOT walk after the flesh and says in Romans 8:13 "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live"
The Lord put provision in the New Covenant a way for Christians to be cleansed from sin again IF they sin after having been born again (which covered sins past, see Romans 3:25)
When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be in right standing with the Lord once again according to His Word.
Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If osas was actually true, then the Lord would not have put provision in the New Covenant a way for Christians to be cleansed from sin again.... but He did.
Gal 6:7,8 says... well you wouldn't understand anyway so never mind.
Amazing! If a preacher teaches what God says in His Word is an abomination and is unacceptable to Him, and will cause those doing it to not inherit God's Kingdom .... is NOT the way God presenting it which is in opposition to God and is calling God's Word a lie... people think this does not disqualify this man from having departed from the Lord and is living in willful sin???
Not only all that, this guy is drawing others away from the Lord thru his heresy!
Believe what you want... but this guy is not only apostate but has been turned over to a reprobate mind!
Romans 1:28
And even as they did NOT like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
This guy has access to God's Word... chooses to be in direct opposition to God's Word and teaches this to others, yep he's reprobate alright!
Exactly!
That and... if we walk in the Spirit we won't fulfill the lusts (desires) of the flesh (Galatians 5:16)
Nobody claiming to be a Christian should be willingly or knowingly doing sinful things.
It should be a rare occurrence for the mature believer to sin, and IF they did it certainly would not be a situation where they knew it was sin before doing it... and they decided to go ahead and do it anyway.
It's amazing to hear from people that claim to be Christians that argue in favor of being able to sin as though it's no big deal. It's really sad, and very shameful!
Those claiming one can never lose their salvation even if one lives in sin... is mocking God according to Gal 6:7,8 which clearly states that God is NOT mocked... we reap what we so and if we sow to the flesh (sin), we shall of the flesh reap corruption which is spiritual death, aka being separated from God
This is why God's Word teaches that one should NOT walk after the flesh and says in Romans 8:13 "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live"
The Lord put provision in the New Covenant a way for Christians to be cleansed from sin again IF they sin after having been born again (which covered sins past, see Romans 3:25)
When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be in right standing with the Lord once again according to His Word.
Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If osas was actually true, then the Lord would not have put provision in the New Covenant a way for Christians to be cleansed from sin again.... but He did.
Gal 6:7,8 says... well you wouldn't understand anyway so never mind.
Amazing! If a preacher teaches what God says in His Word is an abomination and is unacceptable to Him, and will cause those doing it to not inherit God's Kingdom .... is NOT the way God presenting it which is in opposition to God and is calling God's Word a lie... people think this does not disqualify this man from having departed from the Lord and is living in willful sin???
Not only all that, this guy is drawing others away from the Lord thru his heresy!
Believe what you want... but this guy is not only apostate but has been turned over to a reprobate mind!
Romans 1:28
And even as they did NOT like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
This guy has access to God's Word... chooses to be in direct opposition to God's Word and teaches this to others, yep he's reprobate alright!
Exactly!
That and... if we walk in the Spirit we won't fulfill the lusts (desires) of the flesh (Galatians 5:16)
Nobody claiming to be a Christian should be willingly or knowingly doing sinful things.
It should be a rare occurrence for the mature believer to sin, and IF they did it certainly would not be a situation where they knew it was sin before doing it... and they decided to go ahead and do it anyway.
It's amazing to hear from people that claim to be Christians that argue in favor of being able to sin as though it's no big deal. It's really sad, and very shameful!
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John 16:8-11 (NKJV)
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of “sin”, and of “righteousness”, and of “judgment”: 9 of “sin”, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of “righteousness”, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of “judgment”, because the ruler of this world is judged.
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of “sin”, and of “righteousness”, and of “judgment”: 9 of “sin”, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of “righteousness”, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of “judgment”, because the ruler of this world is judged.
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Luke 8:14
“And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.”
I believe that the above represents young and immature Christians who decided to turn back.
John 6:66
“From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.”
Luke 9:62
“And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”
It takes time for roots to go down deep. Maturity is not instantaneous. That is why discipleship is so important.
Hebrews 10:25
“Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.”
“And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.”
I believe that the above represents young and immature Christians who decided to turn back.
John 6:66
“From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.”
Luke 9:62
“And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”
It takes time for roots to go down deep. Maturity is not instantaneous. That is why discipleship is so important.
Hebrews 10:25
“Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.”
...when one chooses to remain fully yielded to Him. The Bible is full of warnings to the believer as well as the unbeliever...
Revelation 2:
4Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Revelation 2:
4Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Although you are generally not given to misrepresenation, in this case I believe you are grossly minsrepresenting Calvinism (Reformed Theology). So I will quote from the Westminster Confession to show how wrong you are:
I. Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace, 291 the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the Gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ. 292
II. By it, a sinner, out of the sight and sense not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature, and righteous law of God; and upon the apprehension of His mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God,293 purposing and endeavouring to walk with Him in all the ways of His commandments.
III. Although repentance is not to be rested in, as any satisfaction for sin, or any cause of the pardon thereof, 295 which is the act of God's free grace in Christ, 296 yet it is of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it. 297
IV. As there is no sin so small, but it deserves damnation;298 so there is no sin so great, that it can bring damnation upon those who truly repent. 299
V. Man ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavour to repent of his particular sins, particularly.300
VI. As every man is bound to make private confession of his sins to God, praying for the pardon thereof; 301 upon which, and the forsaking of them, he shall find mercy;302 so, he that scandalizes his brother, or the Church of Christ, ought to be willing, by a private or public confession, and sorrow for his sin, to declare his repentance to those that are offended,303 who are thereupon to be reconciled to him, and in love to receive him. 304
Of Repentance unto Life
I. Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace, 291 the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the Gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ. 292
II. By it, a sinner, out of the sight and sense not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature, and righteous law of God; and upon the apprehension of His mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God,293 purposing and endeavouring to walk with Him in all the ways of His commandments.
III. Although repentance is not to be rested in, as any satisfaction for sin, or any cause of the pardon thereof, 295 which is the act of God's free grace in Christ, 296 yet it is of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it. 297
IV. As there is no sin so small, but it deserves damnation;298 so there is no sin so great, that it can bring damnation upon those who truly repent. 299
V. Man ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavour to repent of his particular sins, particularly.300
VI. As every man is bound to make private confession of his sins to God, praying for the pardon thereof; 301 upon which, and the forsaking of them, he shall find mercy;302 so, he that scandalizes his brother, or the Church of Christ, ought to be willing, by a private or public confession, and sorrow for his sin, to declare his repentance to those that are offended,303 who are thereupon to be reconciled to him, and in love to receive him. 304
I am referring to the TULIP part of Calvinism. I'm sure that there is truth mixed in with error, but the error must be addressed nonetheless. Do you say you agree 100% with all of Calvinism yourself?
I do try to back up what I say with the Word of God. I don't promote it as "Oysterism". I developed my understanding from meditating on God's Word itself, not feeding on men's predigested understandings of it.
I do appreciate your corrections, though. I am willing to learn. Godspeed.
I do try to back up what I say with the Word of God. I don't promote it as "Oysterism". I developed my understanding from meditating on God's Word itself, not feeding on men's predigested understandings of it.
I do appreciate your corrections, though. I am willing to learn. Godspeed.
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No. I reject TULIP out of hand. But with that out of the way, the Westminster Confession of Faith (Reformed Theology) has many biblical teachings within it. I would suggest that you take a close look at the actual document as it was originally crafted. You and I could probably agree with 90% of its contents .
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Hello Oyster, thanks for your reply. Good to hear from you!
The Parable of the Sower illustrates very well what I was trying to say. The seed that falls on the path, on the stony ground, among thorns and the seed that falls on the good soil. The seed is the word of God. Where the seed lands determines how it will grow.
Matthew 13: 23 "But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
The seed that falls on the good soil, the one who hears the word and understands it, the one who is born again, the only question is how much of a crop will this one produce, thirty, sixty or a hundred fold. There is no danger that half way through the growth cycle the good soil will morph into the path or the stony ground. The good soil was always going to produce the good crop, that's what good soil does.
The Lord didn't say they were young and immature Christians. He said they were choked with the riches and pleasure in this life. Even like some of the Televangelists have been running prosperity schemes for decades.
The one who is born again is interested in storing the true heavenly riches: Matthew 6: 19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also"
That's what good soil does, it produces a good crop.
Those who are truly born of God will endure. There will be growth, the soil is good.
Psalm 84:10 Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God
than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
The one who is born of God will have that same desire to be in the House of God with God's people, the believer will be at the church for it opening. Better one day in the house of God than a thousand days anywhere else. A 'Christian' with no interest in the Kingdom of God or serving God's people, you'll know when looking at them that you're not seeing the good soil spoken of by the Lord.
IMHO. God Bless You, have a great day
The Parable of the Sower illustrates very well what I was trying to say. The seed that falls on the path, on the stony ground, among thorns and the seed that falls on the good soil. The seed is the word of God. Where the seed lands determines how it will grow.
Matthew 13: 23 "But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
The seed that falls on the good soil, the one who hears the word and understands it, the one who is born again, the only question is how much of a crop will this one produce, thirty, sixty or a hundred fold. There is no danger that half way through the growth cycle the good soil will morph into the path or the stony ground. The good soil was always going to produce the good crop, that's what good soil does.
The Lord didn't say they were young and immature Christians. He said they were choked with the riches and pleasure in this life. Even like some of the Televangelists have been running prosperity schemes for decades.
The one who is born again is interested in storing the true heavenly riches: Matthew 6: 19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also"
That's what good soil does, it produces a good crop.
Those who are truly born of God will endure. There will be growth, the soil is good.
Psalm 84:10 Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God
than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
The one who is born of God will have that same desire to be in the House of God with God's people, the believer will be at the church for it opening. Better one day in the house of God than a thousand days anywhere else. A 'Christian' with no interest in the Kingdom of God or serving God's people, you'll know when looking at them that you're not seeing the good soil spoken of by the Lord.
IMHO. God Bless You, have a great day
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everyone already knows about the recent Southern Baptist Church Organization crashing and burning with almost 2,000 Pastors being Booted for Sexual Abuse to Members of their individual Churches.
when you think you are going to Heaven, on a Guarantee, you stop and rape young 14 year old girls, break up marriages by having Affairs, and then use Mental Abuse to keep them quiet.
That OSAS Doctrine of theirs, is so PURE, the entire World KNOWS what Hypocrites they truly are.
one would think, if a Doctrine is [so] legit, God, would not uncover the sins going on for the WHOLE WORLD to know!
when you think you are going to Heaven, on a Guarantee, you stop and rape young 14 year old girls, break up marriages by having Affairs, and then use Mental Abuse to keep them quiet.
That OSAS Doctrine of theirs, is so PURE, the entire World KNOWS what Hypocrites they truly are.
one would think, if a Doctrine is [so] legit, God, would not uncover the sins going on for the WHOLE WORLD to know!
