Israel Declares War

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,189
6,606
113
62
Do you think a one-state solution would work if Israel agreed to end apartheid? I'm not sure how that would even be enforced as there is no one to police the police (Israeli state). I don't mean to be cynical though. I can say why one idea won't work, yet I have NO solution to offer. It's depressing for me.
It's as I said earlier: there are no good solutions here; only less bad.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,189
6,606
113
62
Two things can be true. Israel could want to rid their country of Palestinians and it's also true that they choose not to. I can want to eat an entire chocolate cake, but choose not to because I'm trying to limit my caloric intake, right?

Just my opinion based on writings of Israel's prime ministers and pro-Zionist leaders, secular Jews WOULD rid themselves of the Palestinians from their land if it wasn't for the world watching. They know the world would disapprove. They are choosing a lesser extreme though. They took a page from British apartheid on South Africa in hopes to Palestinians freely leave on their own so that they aren't viewed as the bad guys.

Before anyone claims I'm an anti-Semite, I can show you videos of Ultra Orthodox Rabbis who say this.
I think both are true. But what Israeli leader wants to be the one to give autonomy to the Palestinians, and later have Jews slaughtered?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,666
6,726
113
Isaiah 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

2 The cities of Aroer are forsaken: they shall be for flocks, which shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid.

3 The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria: they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the Lord of hosts.

These three places indicate a confederacy between Damascus (Syria), Aroer (Moabites and Ammonites) and Ephraim (the northern ten tribes of Israel). I have shared quite a bit on why I think Ephraim refers to the US. Joseph's two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim signify the double blessing from Science. The older brother, Manasseh would indicate Germany. This blessing moved to the US (the younger brother Ephraim) at the time of WW2. The only ally that Israel has is the US. There are about as many Jews in the US as in Israel. If you look at where they live in the world it seems they are evenly divided between the US and Israel with a few others scattered all over the earth.

What we have just discovered is a very deceitful alliance between the US and Syria. When Biden took office he removed the sanctions on Iran, resulting in them getting over $140 billion in revenue from their oil industry and rebuilding their nuclear research and development. He gave the Taliban $80 billion in weaponry as a "quid pro quo" to China for helping him win the US election. He recently gave Iran another $6 billion in a prisoner swap. Prior to Biden Obama was also very pro Iran and pro Syria. Obviously these actions do not reflect the will of the majority of Americans which support Israel in this war.

Damascus would be tied to both Iran and Hezbollah. Aroer would be tied to Hamas and Ephraim to the US. It seems this prophecy says these three places get wiped out at the same time beginning with Damascus.

This is significant because we have covered in many posts the connection with the destruction of the US as the great Babylon at the start of the tribulation immediately after the rapture. As the common saying "when we go up the bombs come down".

4 And in that day it shall come to pass, that the glory of Jacob shall be made thin, and the fatness of his flesh shall wax lean.

Jacob is a name that means "heel holder" or supplanter, it is the name of the untransformed Israel. You have many of God's people who are in a variety of states of maturity. Some have been transformed to "Israel" just like Simon becoming Peter or Saul becoming Paul. The transformed people of God are "the glory of Jacob" and they are removed in the rapture, hence "the glory of Jacob shall be made thin, and the fatness of his flesh shall wax lean". Those who are left behind will go through a very tough time in the tribulation.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,894
2,284
113
I think both are true. But what Israeli leader wants to be the one to give autonomy to the Palestinians, and later have Jews slaughtered?
Since the cleansing of the land that occured in 1948 (of both Christians and Muslims) and the evidence is now clear and has come to light along with the statistics kept by the UN and the Human Rights Watch....... it is the Palestinians who have been disproportionally slaughtered and oppressed.

This is an inarguable fact.

Francis Boyle, a professor of international law, testified in 2013 that

“The Palestinians have been the victims of genocide as defined by the 1948 Convention on the
Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.”

He argued that:
For over the past six and one-half decades, the Israeli government and its
predecessors in law – the Zionist agencies, forces, and terrorist gangs –
have ruthlessly implemented a systematic and comprehensive military,
political, religious, economic, and cultural campaign with the intent to
destroy in substantial part the national, ethnical, racial, and different
religious group (Jews versus Muslims and Christians) constituting the
Palestinian people.

There can be no peace when people wear blinders to the facts.
There is no military solution there can only be a political one, that requires honesty.
 
Sep 15, 2019
9,991
5,546
113
So do you think they are wrong in seeking Hamas and destroying them as they have promised to do?
No. I would execute all terrorists, but I would also execute all war criminals. When soldiers murder the family members of innocent people, and a government just looks on and smiles or blinks, that creates more terrorists, as it's natural for the family members to want to seek justice. However, if the government put those soldiers on trial, and if found guilty, they were executed for their crimes, the aggrieved family members wouldn't seek justice against the government - they would know that evil men killed their family, but the government did its job and held the evil-doers to account. Letting terrorists and war criminals get away just creates more war criminals and terrorists. Somebody profits, but at incredible cost to innocent people, justice and the world. I believe that was one of the reasons why God was so strict not to let murderers go free.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,894
2,284
113
You might be correct. I will raise my hand and admit I'm ignorant of what Islam (non-extremists) teach from their Koran. Every time I've asked an American Muslim about it, they say only a small group of extremist think like that. Perhaps one day I'll stop being lazy and find out for myself.

Taking anything out of context is never good.

You know most people just want to get on with their lives, work and raise their families, and most Muslims ignore the extremists just like Christians know the Westboro Pastor is a nut job.

Sustained oppression creates anger and hatred.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
4,781
2,068
113
No. I would execute all terrorists, but I would also execute all war criminals. When soldiers murder the family members of innocent people, and a government just looks on and smiles or blinks, that creates more terrorists, as it's natural for the family members to want to seek justice. However, if the government put those soldiers on trial, and if found guilty, they were executed for their crimes, the aggrieved family members wouldn't seek justice against the government - they would know that evil men killed their family, but the government did its job and held the evil-doers to account. Letting terrorists and war criminals get away just creates more war criminals and terrorists. Somebody profits, but at incredible cost to innocent people, justice and the world. I believe that was one of the reasons why God was so strict not to let murderers go free.
Did you know that in Palestine, they name streets after people who kill a Jew?!
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,189
6,606
113
62
Since the cleansing of the land that occured in 1948 (of both Christians and Muslims) and the evidence is now clear and has come to light along with the statistics kept by the UN and the Human Rights Watch....... it is the Palestinians who have been disproportionally slaughtered and oppressed.

This is an inarguable fact.

Francis Boyle, a professor of international law, testified in 2013 that

“The Palestinians have been the victims of genocide as defined by the 1948 Convention on the
Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.”

He argued that:
For over the past six and one-half decades, the Israeli government and its
predecessors in law – the Zionist agencies, forces, and terrorist gangs –
have ruthlessly implemented a systematic and comprehensive military,
political, religious, economic, and cultural campaign with the intent to
destroy in substantial part the national, ethnical, racial, and different
religious group (Jews versus Muslims and Christians) constituting the
Palestinian people.

There can be no peace when people wear blinders to the facts.
There is no military solution there can only be a political one, that requires honesty.
I think you are partially right. I don't think you can have a political solution as things currently exist. What solution do you offer?
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,927
1,272
113
I believe that was one of the reasons why God was so strict not to let murderers go free.
Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man his blood will be shed; for in His own image God has made mankind. (Gen 9:6)

it is a great evil to murder an image bearer :(
 
Sep 15, 2019
9,991
5,546
113
Did you know that in Palestine, they name streets after people who kill a Jew?!
And in Australia, they've started renaming everything in Aboriginal languages. Just because a government does something doesn't mean the people agree. The government in Australia recently held a constitutionally invalid/illegal referendum to bring Communism into Australia (via stealth). It was defeated about 70% to 30% (if government vote counters are to be believed), so now the government is changing the laws to bring the changes in anyway. What a government does is not necessarily a reflection of what the people believe or support. We mustn't hold people accountable for criminal governments. If we did, all Americans should be held guilty for what Crooked Joe has done and is doing (and likewise Canadians for Castreudo), but no one with an IQ over 50 believes those buffoons were elected.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,894
2,284
113
I think you are partially right. I don't think you can have a political solution as things currently exist. What solution do you offer?
When can I start making the big bucks for a solution? ;):)

Soon maybe Netanyahu will be booted out of office that might help.

Sadly, in most cases all out war is the only thing that brings peace and stability as people once again have to learn the lessons of history.

I truly think if the USA can elect someone like Ramaswamy (not a war monger) who seems to be able to be objective and non-partisan there may be some possibility of a fragile peace.

The whole region needs strong objective oversight, because part of the problem is Israel has never been held to account for its human rights abuses.

Mr. Cameron, however, this is not the end times, but we are certainly close to a widespread war that could involve the USA, so we need to be realistic of where this is going.
 
Sep 15, 2019
9,991
5,546
113
I think you are partially right. I don't think you can have a political solution as things currently exist. What solution do you offer?
I think Trump will make peace when he is officially in power again. Sadly, I'm not sure that's a good thing.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,894
2,284
113
Sigh... I am questioning my belief that the Abrahamic covenants haven't all been fulfilled. Thanks for giving me more homework. I think there is a case that it has been fulfilled. Does anyone have some scripture for me to shorten my homework? :p
If you can follow me I will post helpful info on your profile page. :)

It is quite clear that the land promise was fulfilled, do not question your belief, dispensationalism relies on the distortion of scripture for a political agenda.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
Yet Israel has allowed Arabs to live and work within Israel fro decades. So that is not entirely true. As a matter of fact Israel was prepared to accept a peaceful settlement many times, but the Palestinian leaders do not want peace or prosperity for their own people. Right now they are telling them not to vacate Gaza so that they become cannon fodder and the world begins to sympathize with the terrorists. This is pure wickedness.
It seems a neat trick to say evacuate to who knows where, then uttery destroy their homes so that there is nothing to come back to. Now you have expelled them from the land, you can move right in and rebuild and put your own people there. Then well you dont have the arab in the land. While elderlies and children and women Are refugees to the world.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,189
6,606
113
62
When can I start making the big bucks for a solution? ;):)

Soon maybe Netanyahu will be booted out of office that might help.

Sadly, in most cases all out war is the only thing that brings peace and stability as people once again have to learn the lessons of history.

I truly think if the USA can elect someone like Ramaswamy (not a war monger) who seems to be able to be objective and non-partisan there may be some possibility of a fragile peace.

The whole region needs strong objective oversight, because part of the problem is Israel has never been held to account for its human rights abuses.

Mr. Cameron, however, this is not the end times, but we are certainly close to a widespread war that could involve the USA, so we need to be realistic of where this is going.
I don't believe we are in end times. Our eschatology is similar. And people can argue whatever they like. But if one doesn't have a plan to move forward, more of the same will ensue. The only way forward, in my opinion, is to destroy Hamas and afterwards to police the area. It will take generations from that point for peace to really set in.
I also believe that it is a strong President who wields a big stick and is willing to heavily sanction terrorist supporting nations who will have success.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,189
6,606
113
62
I think Trump will make peace when he is officially in power again. Sadly, I'm not sure that's a good thing.
I think your earlier post was good. And Trump was successful because he was willing to withhold money and go after terrorists. But as long as Hamas exists in Gaza, there will not be peace.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,803
7,785
113
Did you know that in Palestine, they name streets after people who kill a Jew?!
Sounds like something a people whose god only seeks to steal, kill and destroy, would do.
Looks like G-d is waking the world up to the truth there are only 2 kingdoms, the dark, wrong, one and His of light, truth and blessing.:)
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,894
2,284
113
I don't believe we are in end times. Our eschatology is similar. And people can argue whatever they like. But if one doesn't have a plan to move forward, more of the same will ensue. The only way forward, in my opinion, is to destroy Hamas and afterwards to police the area. It will take generations from that point for peace to really set in.
I also believe that it is a strong President who wields a big stick and is willing to heavily sanction terrorist supporting nations who will have success.
Destroy Hamas and another group will rise up and will be funded if oppression remains. The system of apratheid needs to be dismantled.

My view is the time of "the big stick" is done, the USA is no longer the king of the castle, they are plagued with internal problems, debt etc., etc., we live in a mutli-polar world.

The USA has been sold out ... this happened a long time ago, not sure a sinking ship can be righted.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,894
2,284
113
It seems a neat trick to say evacuate to who knows where, then uttery destroy their homes so that there is nothing to come back to. Now you have expelled them from the land, you can move right in and rebuild and put your own people there. Then well you dont have the arab in the land. While elderlies and children and women Are refugees to the world.
Thank you.

History matters.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,347
3,148
113
The land was fulfilled in the OT.

God sends the Messiah the ultimate promise
They REJECT the Messiah
Jerusalem and the temple utterly destroyed.
Jesus warned them harshly.
Jesus curses the fig tree.

BUT........ God has to still has to give them land because He couldn't bring that to fruition before He sent His Son, makes a lot of sense.

What horrible hermeneutics.
You missed the main point. God scattered Israel because of their rebellion and because they rejected the true Messiah. The final blow was in about AD 130 when Rome destroyed Israel as a nation. Yet Jews remained a cohesive group within the nations they fled to. Because of intense persecution, some returned to what was known as Palestine. Jews bought land off the Arab occupants. At the time, the British controlled Palestine. After the holocaust, Britain and the United Nations decided that the Jews should have a homeland. Israel was legally constituted. For sure Israelis fought dirty against the British. The British in turn trained Palestinians to fight the Jews.

Israel exists because God said it would. Tell me how many nations have been erased, only to arise again 2,000 year later? And in one day, exactly as prophesied in God's word? I don't care what Herman Neutics preaches, I care what God's word says.