Israel Declares War

[ThereRoseaLamb]

The statement actually was not directed at you, but I respect the fact you owned up to your belief, if it truly is your belief that God will bless those who reject Christ. Is this really what you are saying, though?

Nope!

This is a straw-man argument. The verse is saying that Christians are true Jews - it is not saying the church takes the place of the Jews. We are grafted into the true vine - just as those who call themselves Jews today (but are not) will be, if they believe on the Messiah.

Yes, but God still has promises to keep to the Jews.

 

[Moses_Young]

Nope!

Good.

Yes, but God still has promises to keep to the Jews.

Can you be specific? If you are talking about the remnant, we don't know who that is. It isn't necessarily those who call themselves Jews. And even if we knew it was, it doesn't give us the right to give them a free pass with such terrible crimes as murder. We should judge with righteous judgement, favouring no man.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

All these people advocating for ignoring the laws of war, going Old Testament (yet without the divine right and command of God!) and complaining that unarmed, Palestinian children haven't overturned the Israel-state supported Hamas leadership, I hope they are just as bold when the terror is on their own soil, and that they will be the first to send their unarmed women and children to do battle with terrorists if and when these come to the West (very likely given the influx and numbers of military age, male illegal immigrants).

I hope these same people also remember they have no right to complain about the laws of war being broken if such events do occur, given these are the people advocating against the laws of war being followed in Israel and Palestine (clearly, because in their minds, might makes right).

The laws of war were already broken, by Hamas. Israel has a right to defend their homeland. People with tunnels coming into your backyard aren't your friends! And I have no idea what you mean by children, no one is asking children to do anything.

 

[ZNP]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Uh Oh, sounds like God will be the one casting the first stone.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Good.

Can you be specific? If you are talking about the remnant, we don't know who that is. It isn't necessarily those who call themselves Jews. And even if we knew it was, it doesn't give us the right to give them a free pass with such terrible crimes as murder. We should judge with righteous judgement, favouring no man.

Romans 11 tells us the remnant are Jews. The promises or land promises made under the Abrahamic covenant.

 

[Moses_Young]

The laws of war were already broken, by Hamas. Israel has a right to defend their homeland. People with tunnels coming into your backyard aren't your friends! And I have no idea what you mean by children, no one is asking children to do anything.

Someone in the thread was blaming Palestinians (about 50% under 18 years old) for not standing up to (armed) Hamas, and therefore saying these Palestinians participate in their own demise if/as Israel decides to indiscriminately bomb Palestine. People usually have no power over their governments, especially not children.

And this view certainly overlooks the very likely case that Hamas is empowered by elements of the Israeli government, just as Al-Qaeda and ISIS were put in place and empowered by elements in the US government. It is a boogeyman man for the people to fear - when people fear, they are easier to control.

Defense of one's homeland does not consist of the murder of women and children (or any civilian) within the homeland of another. That's a war crime.

 

[Moses_Young]

Romans 11 tells us the remnant are Jews. The promises or land promises made under the Abrahamic covenant.

Some hold that the land promises have been fulfilled already. But even if they have not, let God honour His promises. He doesn't need our help to keep His word.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Some hold that the land promises have been fulfilled already. But even if they have not, let God honour His promises. He doesn't need our help to keep His word.

Yes they do

But the land promise was not a one time event.

God said in ALL your generations as an everlasting promise.

So just because they at one time received the land.. it does not mean it is fulfilled..

if God is done with this, there is no need of a remnant.. It is nonsensical.. why divide jew believers from gentile believers and call it a remnant when there is not need. God is done with them.

 

[Moses_Young]

Yes they do

But the land promise was not a one time event.

God said in ALL your generations as an everlasting promise.

So just because they at one time received the land.. it does not mean it is fulfilled..

if God is done with this, there is no need of a remnant.. It is nonsensical.. why divide jew believers from gentile believers and call it a remnant when there is not need. God is done with them.

Those who call themselves Jews are unrepentant - they have not turned to Christ. Therefore, the curses God promised for disobedience, rather than the blessings He promised for obedience, apply.

 

[HeIsHere]

Some hold that the land promises have been fulfilled already. But even if they have not, let God honour His promises. He doesn't need our help to keep His word.

I do believe God has fulfilled all His promises regarding the land, but a very good point He does not need our help to keep His word,

neither does He use very evil rich men with the power to create nations with a stroke of pen, having first sent young men to their

deaths by the hundreds of thousands.

 

[HeIsHere]

Some hold that the land promises have been fulfilled already. But even if they have not, let God honour His promises. He doesn't need our help to keep His word.

Also the Jewish remnant became Christians at the siege of Jerusalem in the first century.

Jesus ended the sacrifice, they denied the Messiah, from then on everything changed.


“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Matthew 23:37

 

[PennEd]

The sheep and goat judgement, I believe, is the first judgement.

The goats will be those Nations and people that mistreated, or were ambivalent toward "His Brethren" The context of Jesus saying His Brethren is referring to His Blood Brethren, the Jews, specifically those that will recognize Him during the GT.

Jesus is speaking to GENTILES in the passage. He judging THE NATIONS. If He was speaking in generalities about Christians, then it would be highly redundant to say "You brethren did it to the least of your brethren and Mine".

40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

Now it is true that Scripture often has 2 or more applications. So it absolutely ALSO means we should be caring for ALL the poor.

But in this context He is referring to those that treated the Jews well.

 

[Moses_Young]

The sheep and goat judgement, I believe, is the first judgement.

The goats will be those Nations and people that mistreated, or were ambivalent toward "His Brethren" The context of Jesus saying His Brethren is referring to His Blood Brethren, the Jews, specifically those that will recognize Him during the GT.

Jesus is speaking to GENTILES in the passage. He judging THE NATIONS. If He was speaking in generalities about Christians, then it would be highly redundant to say "You brethren did it to the least of your brethren and Mine".

40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

Now it is true that Scripture often has 2 or more applications. So it absolutely ALSO means we should be caring for ALL the poor.

But in this context He is referring to those that treated the Jews well.

You must interpret scripture with scripture. Who are Jesus' mother and brothers? He tells us.

Matthew 12:46 - 50
While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

What is the will of Jesus' Father in Heaven? That we believe on the name of Jesus, and be saved. Therefore, anyone who is a true Jew and a Christian, is a brother, sister or mother of Jesus - Jesus' brethren.

 

[HeIsHere]

First hand account,

I am Israeli and my family came to Israel in the 1940s from East Europe Romania before the official creation of the state of Israel as an official country. My grandfather was Hagana soldier that participated in the raids, expulsion and exile of Palestinians in the land between 1947-1948. He stole furniture from homes, expensive prized possessions and pushed the Palestinians from a village called Huj into the Gaza strip.

Before he passed away he told me the story of what led to the war of 1948 and how they attacked with pure impunity while British soldiers watched. He mentioned a story about catching Palestinians of the village sneaking out at night to tend to their lands and fruit and shooting indiscriminately to scare them off into Gaza. He said he's never had a good night sleep in all his years after that and lived with a shame inside him until his death.

At the time the soldiers were emboldened to do whatever they wanted as long as the villages were wiped cleaned. He said he remembers how easy it was to demolish the homes there because they were made of dirt and fell like sand castles.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Those who call themselves Jews are unrepentant - they have not turned to Christ. Therefore, the curses God promised for disobedience, rather than the blessings He promised for obedience, apply.

yes they do.

But it does not mean God is done with them.

The palestinians are just as Guilty as Jews using this thinking, as they reject Christ also.. in fact they reject the God of Israel. which is why they hate the jew so much.

the fact is, If Israel (when) repents. god will restore them..

 

[HeIsHere]

yes they do.

But it does not mean God is done with them.

The palestinians are just as Guilty as Jews using this thinking, as they reject Christ also.. in fact they reject the God of Israel. which is why they hate the jew so much.

the fact is, If Israel (when) repents. god will restore them..

There were Christians living in Palestine when the Jews took over, they have became refugees or if they stayed they are being killed or driven from the land.

In 1922 there were approximately 73,000 Christians, there are now about 47,000.

 

[iamsoandso]

Also the Jewish remnant became Christians at the siege of Jerusalem in the first century.

Jesus ended the sacrifice, they denied the Messiah, from then on everything changed.


“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Matthew 23:37

Where did you see that a Jewish remnant became Christians at the siege of Jerusalem? Is there historical documents that you saw this in?

 

[PennEd]

You must interpret scripture with scripture. Who are Jesus' mother and brothers? He tells us.

Matthew 12:46 - 50
While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

What is the will of Jesus' Father in Heaven? That we believe on the name of Jesus, and be saved. Therefore, anyone who is a true Jew and a Christian, is a brother, sister or mother of Jesus - Jesus' brethren.

Yep. I get that.

I don't think that discounts anything I said in my post.

He's addressing the Nations, which are Gentile and making a distinction between HIS brethren, and the people who HELPED His brethren.

Kinda reaffirming "I will bless those that bless you, and curse those that curse you".

 

[Locoponydirtman]

How is murdering children in the womb being "hypervigilant towards their safety?"

I dont think Moses Young has ever murdered a child in the womb.

 

[Moses_Young]

I dont think Moses Young has ever murdered a child in the womb.

Thanks, I have not. Or out of the womb, in case the question arises in future.