The Trinity

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Cameron143

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No one who is not saved could ever experience the Heavenly Gift of the Holy Spirit. Those Verses make that specific distinction. So these are "saved people."
Really? In Matthew 7:21-23, there were some who prophesied, cast out demons, and did miracles. They weren't saved.
 
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Really? In Matthew 7:21-23, there were some who prophesied, cast out demons, and did miracles. They weren't saved.
You really believe a person, not filled with the Holy Spirit, could heal and do miracles in the name of Jesus and God would grant it? I see no evidence of that anywhere.
 

CS1

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I don't disagree with what you have written here. I disagreed that there is unconfessed sin.
unconfessed sin = rebellion and is directed to those who are unsaved. Unconfession is in context with the person who will not agree they have sinned and need GOD. I can confess I have committed fornication. and not repent

Unconfessed sin The word "Unconfessed." in the context of sin is not used in the Bible.
 

Cameron143

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You really believe a person, not filled with the Holy Spirit, could heal and do miracles in the name of Jesus and God would grant it? I see no evidence of that anywhere.
Where does it say the group in Matthew 7 was saved? Did Judas do miracles when the disciples were sent out in groups of 2? Did Saul come under the control of the Spirit? Did he prophesy? Did a donkey speak?
If I had more time I could show you more. All of these tasted spiritual reality apart from grace.
 
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Where does it say the group in Matthew 7 was saved? Did Judas do miracles when the disciples were sent out in groups of 2? Did Saul come under the control of the Spirit? Did he prophesy? Did a donkey speak?
If I had more time I could show you more. All of these tasted spiritual reality apart from grace.
Judas only betrayed Jesus in the end. Nowhere does it say he was not in the fold up till then. Jesus even says He lost one. Saul did nothing for Christ until he was saved. A donkey spoke because it was blocked by an Angel and God allowed it to speak. You are full of excuses to keep Your sins. Amazing.
 

Cameron143

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unconfessed sin = rebellion and is directed to those who are unsaved. Unconfession is in context with the person who will not agree they have sinned and need GOD. I can confess I have committed fornication. and not repent

Unconfessed sin The word "Unconfessed." in the context of sin is not used in the Bible.
Your argument is one of semantics. There are many words not in the Bible that accurately depict what is there. I disagree with your definition of unconfessed sin. I actually know what I mean by it. So by forcing your definition upon my observation, you impose necessarily a different meaning.
You are under no obligation to accept my definition, but we aren't discussing using the same definition. We might as well be speaking different languages.
 

CS1

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Your argument is one of semantics. There are many words not in the Bible that accurately depict what is there. I disagree with your definition of unconfessed sin. I actually know what I mean by it. So by forcing your definition upon my observation, you impose necessarily a different meaning.
You are under no obligation to accept my definition, but we aren't discussing using the same definition. We might as well be speaking different languages.
then I leave to speak to yourself :) unless you can show me Biblically "unconfessed sin." how about you do that for me, please:).
 

Nehemiah6

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Judas only betrayed Jesus in the end. Nowhere does it say he was not in the fold up till then.
If Christ called Judas a devil and the Son of Perdition how could he be "in the fold"? No, Judas was chosen to fulfil prophecy and so that Christ would in fact be betrayed. Jesus knew all along what would be the final outcome.
 

Fundaamental

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Mar 17, 2023
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What does that even mean?
well the hint was for Cameron, im sure he will work it out,

But there was once a person always watching who constantly would not let things go,

He would often rant on and judged by his own double standard, quite often he would Display cognitive issues as he escalated one rant after the next. Nobody would have minded if but only some of his rants where merited
 

Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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The author of Hebrews shows us people who not only had the Gift of the Holy Spirit, but tasted the Heavenly Gift, and shared in it. It means they were "saved." Someone never "saved" could experience this. And they believe similar to as You seem to be proposing and Fell Away and it became impossible for them to be restored.

4-6: For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Heb 5:12~~For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Heb 6:3~~And this will we do, if God permit.

Heb 6:4-6: For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.


Luke 18:27
27 But he said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”


“You have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, ‘My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when you are reproved by Him; 6 for those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges every son whom He receives’” (Heb 12:5-6).
 

Cameron143

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Judas only betrayed Jesus in the end. Nowhere does it say he was not in the fold up till then. Jesus even says He lost one. Saul did nothing for Christ until he was saved. A donkey spoke because it was blocked by an Angel and God allowed it to speak. You are full of excuses to keep Your sins. Amazing.
I was speaking of Saul in the OT.
And you have made quite the accusation against me. It's one thing to believe I am not rightly dividing scripture. It's another thing altogether to assign motive to my actions. Unless you are sure what is actually in my heart, you may not want to judge me, as you will be subject to the same judgment.
 

Cameron143

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then I leave to speak to yourself :) unless you can show me Biblically "unconfessed sin." how about you do that for me, please:).
Unconfessed sin, regardless of whether it falls under the umbrella of rebellion or under some other sin, is simply a way of speaking about sin. I juxtaposed it with confessed sin, for the sake of comparison. Certainly one is in rebellion if they do not confess their sin, but they do not lose their their position of sonship. This was all I set out to establish. And I was doing so because some were saying our position in Christ was incumbent upon our confession. If this were so, every sin would result in the loss of salvation. There are other problems engendered with this as well.
If your objection is to my use of the term unconfessed sin, then duly noted.
 
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If Christ called Judas a devil and the Son of Perdition how could he be "in the fold"? No, Judas was chosen to fulfil prophecy and so that Christ would in fact be betrayed. Jesus knew all along what would be the final outcome.
Jesus also counted him as one He lost. How do you translate that?
 
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well the hint was for Cameron, im sure he will work it out,

But there was once a person always watching who constantly would not let things go,

He would often rant on and judged by his own double standard, quite often he would Display cognitive issues as he escalated one rant after the next. Nobody would have minded if but only some of his rants where merited
OK!
There's only 3 involved in that discussion. Are You implying me? You get caught lying and making things up so now you are attaching things others have done to me? Like I said last night, you need to involve Your dad in big boy discussions. You just fly off the hook and start making things up any time you're losing.
 
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Heb 5:12~~For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Heb 6:3~~And this will we do, if God permit.

Heb 6:4-6: For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.


Luke 18:27
27 But he said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”


“You have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, ‘My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when you are reproved by Him; 6 for those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges every son whom He receives’” (Heb 12:5-6).
If You say so. Hebrews says they have the Heavenly Gift of the Holy Spirit. If you think someone not regenerated can have the Holy Spirit, I want nothing to do with your beliefs.
 
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I was speaking of Saul in the OT.
And you have made quite the accusation against me. It's one thing to believe I am not rightly dividing scripture. It's another thing altogether to assign motive to my actions. Unless you are sure what is actually in my heart, you may not want to judge me, as you will be subject to the same judgment.
No, I can perfectly see what You're claiming. Sin does not separate us from God. Yet, the Lake of Fire will be full of people in the same spiritual condition.
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
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OK!
There's only 3 involved in that discussion. Are You implying me? You get caught lying and making things up so now you are attaching things others have done to me? Like I said last night, you need to involve Your dad in big boy discussions. You just fly off the hook and start making things up any time you're losing.
I can think of one out right lie you spoke already.

But I wonder about what you've wrote here and I wonder if this is another one of your rebellious confessions 🙂
 
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I can think of one out right lie you spoke already.

But I wonder about what you've wrote here and I wonder if this is another one of your rebellious confessions 🙂
I can copy/paste our discussion and prove what I am saying.