The Security Of The Believer

[wattie]

I want address the accusation that it's teaching a 'license to sin '. This accusation is ignoring the work of the Holy Spirit in prompting His children to go on to faithfulness. He corrects and rebukes.. disciplines.

It is also not recognising the fact that everyone sins, alot, whether intended or not.

Since there is a high chance the majority of members on the site use the internet alot... There is also a reasonable chance a large proportion of them access adult content. Pornogaphy.

Now if I assume a believer just 'doesnt do this' or loses salvation if they do .. well then I've just condemned a significant amount of members on this chat site.

So the point is ..there is no mark of higher faithfulness that condemns a believer. Jesus pays for it all

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Since there is a high chance the majority of members on the site use the internet alot... There is also a reasonable chance a large proportion of them access adult content. Pornogaphy.

Now if I assume a believer just 'doesnt do this' or loses salvation if they do .. well then I've just condemned a significant amount of members on this chat site.

So the point is ..there is no mark of higher faithfulness that condemns a believer. Jesus pays for it all

So folks can continue watching porn after getting saved and still go to Heaven?

What about continuing in other sins such as rape and child molestation or maybe being a professional hit man?

If salvation can never be lost, then those doing these sins will still go to Heaven then right?

 

[timemeddler]

So folks can continue watching porn after getting saved and still go to Heaven?

What about continuing in other sins such as rape and child molestation or maybe being a professional hit man?

If salvation can never be lost, then those doing these sins will still go to Heaven then right?

Well there's still the war with the flesh even after being set free, our inner delight should be with godly things, but unfortunately sin can still land a punch on us from time to time. We can ask forgiveness and hopefully strengthen ourselves to avoid sinning again.

 

[Kroogz]

So folks can continue watching porn after getting saved and still go to Heaven?

What about continuing in other sins such as rape and child molestation or maybe being a professional hit man?

If salvation can never be lost, then those doing these sins will still go to Heaven then right?

Have you ever heard of God's discipline for His children? The sin unto death? Saved as if through fire? Loss of tremendous rewards and inheritance? Ever think maybe God takes them out before your list of extremes ever happens?

Every sin is deserving of death next to God's holiness. Are you sin free? Because every sin, even ignorant sin is just as worthy of death as your list above.

I would be more concerned about getting a FUNDAMENTAL doctrine wrong. Pretty sure that is a grave continual error/SIN in Gods eyes. We really should thank Him for His eternal security for us.

Heb 7~~ 25Therefore He is also able to save forever those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

 

[Kroogz]

This is SECURITY. God cannot lie. He does not lie. He will not lie.

Ephesians 4:30 states, “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

There are many believers who say Gods seal can be broken.

Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Who has this very same seal?

John 6:27
Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

I would be a little nervous saying Gods seal can be broken.

 

[wattie]

So folks can continue watching porn after getting saved and still go to Heaven?

What about continuing in other sins such as rape and child molestation or maybe being a professional hit man?

If salvation can never be lost, then those doing these sins will still go to Heaven then right?

You just ignored the discipline and correction of the Holy Spirit on those who practice those things. Just because loss of salvation isn't a consequence..doesn't mean there is NO consequence.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So folks can continue watching porn after getting saved and still go to Heaven?

What about continuing in other sins such as rape and child molestation or maybe being a professional hit man?

If salvation can never be lost, then those doing these sins will still go to Heaven then right?

are you better than they are? Have you achieved perfection? I would personally stop worrying about other people sins and worry about your own. And how you can serve those people

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I want address the accusation that it's teaching a 'license to sin '. This accusation is ignoring the work of the Holy Spirit in prompting His children to go on to faithfulness. He corrects and rebukes.. disciplines.

It is also not recognising the fact that everyone sins, alot, whether intended or not.

Since there is a high chance the majority of members on the site use the internet alot... There is also a reasonable chance a large proportion of them access adult content. Pornogaphy.

Now if I assume a believer just 'doesnt do this' or loses salvation if they do .. well then I've just condemned a significant amount of members on this chat site.

So the point is ..there is no mark of higher faithfulness that condemns a believer. Jesus pays for it all

its interesting to note. People who do this are not really saying we believe in a license to sin, they are condemning certain sins (porn, rape, murder) while giving themselves a license to commit their own sins.

I remember growing up the big three were don’t drink smoke or cuss. If you did these, you certainly would not make it to heaven.

Only to find out later when the hidden things were exposed. These people had their own sins they were hiding and excusing.

Most people who point at another persons sins are hiding their own.

 

[Kroogz]

its interesting to note. People who do this are not really saying we believe in a license to sin, they are condemning certain sins (porn, rape, murder) while giving themselves a license to commit their own sins.

I remember growing up the big three were don’t drink smoke or cuss. If you did these, you certainly would not make it to heaven.

Only to find out later when the hidden things were exposed. These people had their own sins they were hiding and excusing.

Most people who point at another persons sins are hiding their own.

I ended up being good friends with someone like this!

When I was a babe in Christ, still mystified at what happened. I went on a mission trip. I still chewed tobacco, it was the last thing on my mind at the time. Well, this older gentleman jumped me in front of everybody about the ring in my back pocket and gave me a good what for. I had not figured out that chewing was a deadly sin yet!

A couple of days later, I walked down to the lake to do some fishing. Guess who I caught hiding behind a tree smoking a cigarette? Very humble nice guy after that.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Case in point!!

 

[Chester]

This is correct.

And this is the point. When a person truly becomes born again (from above), having become a new creature (creation), they belong to God. He owns us, bought and paid for with the precious blood of Jesus. A true child of God cannot be un-born again, and he certainly cannot make any decisions about that with which he no longer has rights. He cannot sell himself back to the devil (or sin, or however you want to say it) because he doesn't own himself anymore. God does. Only God could, but He will not because He paid such a high price, and now that He owns the purchased possession, He will keep it and protect it forever. The decision to trust Christ is a one-time only decision, and if truly heart-felt (sincere, genuine), then it is forever.

Like I said before, the child of God has already made the decision (which once made, cannot be un-done).

Wow! Thou I disagree with you (quite strongly, actually) I do like that you are at least honest about what OSAS actually teaches. Very few believers in OSAS will admit that OSAS means that once you decide to believe you now have absolutely no more choice in the matter of salvation/heaven.

For myself, I did make a decision to follow Jesus when I was born again, but I daily rest and lean on Him, and choose to continue believing and following Him. Hallelujah for the Son of God, my Redeemer and my King, and my Friend!

 

[Cameron143]

Wow! Thou I disagree with you (quite strongly, actually) I do like that you are at least honest about what OSAS actually teaches. Very few believers in OSAS will admit that OSAS means that once you decide to believe you now have absolutely no more choice in the matter of salvation/heaven.

For myself, I did make a decision to follow Jesus when I was born again, but I daily rest and lean on Him, and choose to continue believing and following Him. Hallelujah for the Son of God, my Redeemer and my King, and my Friend!

Your basic premise is wrong. God doesn't need to remove freewill to maintain a person's salvation anymore than He needs to impart it to initiate salvation.
God accomplishes His will in and through the choices men make.
Why do you believe God must impede people's freewill to maintain their salvation?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Wow! Thou I disagree with you (quite strongly, actually) I do like that you are at least honest about what OSAS actually teaches. Very few believers in OSAS will admit that OSAS means that once you decide to believe you now have absolutely no more choice in the matter of salvation/heaven.

For myself, I did make a decision to follow Jesus when I was born again, but I daily rest and lean on Him, and choose to continue believing and following Him. Hallelujah for the Son of God, my Redeemer and my King, and my Friend!

Oh we have a choice

we chose to not go to where we were before.

anone who thinks they would be happier where they were before i have go truly doubt they ever repented to begin with.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Your basic premise is wrong. God doesn't need to remove freewill to maintain a person's salvation anymore than He needs to impart it to initiate salvation.
God accomplishes His will in and through the choices men make.
Why do you believe God must impede people's freewill to maintain their salvation?

I think they just do not understand what people come to christ for.

They think they would want to go back.

The jews wanted to go back to Egypt. Why? They never believed to begin with.

 

[Cameron143]

I think they just do not understand what people come to christ for.

They think they would want to go back.

The jews wanted to go back to Egypt. Why? They never believed to begin with.

They certainly never came to understand the all-surpassing value of a life with God hid in Christ.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

They certainly never came to understand the all-surpassing value of a life with God hid in Christ.

Which is why they would even desire to go back.

Egypt was death, Egypt was torture, Egypt was starvation.

This represents what we cam from.

who would of free will having been freed from that death and experienced Gods true love would want to go back to that?

No one

 

[Chester]

Your basic premise is wrong. God doesn't need to remove freewill to maintain a person's salvation anymore than He needs to impart it to initiate salvation.
God accomplishes His will in and through the choices men make.
Why do you believe God must impede people's freewill to maintain their salvation?

I don't believe God must impede people's freewill to maintain their salvation. That is what OSAS teaches. Please read my comments carefully.

 

[Chester]

Oh we have a choice

we chose to not go to where we were before.

anone who thinks they would be happier where they were before i have go truly doubt they ever repented to begin with.

And so someone like you will say that the "Christian" who decides to leave God (and decides he would be happier going to hell) was never saved to begin with: OK, I guess you can take that position if you like.

For me, I absolutely know of a certainty that I am a born again child of God. But I also know that I have the absolutely complete moral capability to turn against God and completely deny Him. Now, I have absolutely no intention of ever doing that, but I freely admit that I have that moral capability and freedom to choose that pathway. But God's love and mercy has surrounded me and enveloped me so powerfully that He is now everything and all to me: and He will always be everything and all to me: Hallelujah!

 

[Chester]

who would of free will having been freed from that death and experienced Gods true love would want to go back to that?

No one

And that, my brother, is the beauty of it! The Christian has the moral capability and the option to go back, but when the love of God has captured Him, no one and nothing can convince Him to turn back: He is secure in His God!

 

[Cameron143]

Which is why they would even desire to go back.

Egypt was death, Egypt was torture, Egypt was starvation.

This represents what we cam from.

who would of free will having been freed from that death and experienced Gods true love would want to go back to that?

No one

It takes time to learn how to live free. People who come out of bondage only know bondage. Same with Christians. Before, we are slaves to sin and Satan. It takes time to learn to put off the old man and put on the new man.