What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

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Ted01

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May 14, 2022
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Magenta said:
My apologies if I came across as irritated. It is indeed a complex subject and I dare say none has the whole of the answer. We may also have experienced God in different ways which colour how we think on this issue. I think you are quite wise when it comes to Scriptural matters :)

PS- I am posting from my phone and that is certainly irritating!!! Ugh LOL
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Look, I'm a humble guy, er, more correctly, I'm trying to learn how to become humble. many here have HUGE egos... which makes things harder for me. So, I apologize to you and everyone here.

Beyond that, I think many get caught up in minutia... people think that if we apply "free will" to the conversation of Salvation, we're saying that someone can choose to be Saved. I don't believe that. However, I believe that with our free will, we can choose to throw ourselves at the feet of Jesus, the Redeemer, and ask to be saved. So, even as a slave, I cannot remove myself from slavery, but a Redeemer certainly can... and with free will, one can choose to believe that he will Save (all) when asked with a broken and contrite spirit.

Y'all believe what you want... it's your life, live it however you want. I'm living it surrendered.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Kroogz said:
It comes down to equal privilege and equal opportunity. He leaves not one person out. Everyone who ever lives is going to get their BEST chance at salvation. We choose it or we reject it.

We can debate the nuances of it. But nobody is left out in His plan of salvation for mankind.
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I have some comments but it's between you and dinner, and dinner won.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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Magenta said:
Do you believe God decides beforehand that some are made for destruction? And that God, having fashioned them for destruction, will punish them eternally for failing to make a choice that was never meant for them in the first place?
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No.

Was Paul a chosen vessel? Yes, he was. God chose Paul for a specific reason, right? … as God chose many others in a similar way. These are the Elect who are already justified.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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But not everyone is Elect.
 
K

Kroogz

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Magenta

Magenta

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selahsays said:
Here’s is a wonderful passage of scripture depicting free will:

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

- John 3:14-18
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That says zero regarding free will :oops:
 
selahsays

selahsays

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rogerg said:
So, you believe that God brought forth more than one way of becoming saved - even given there is only one Saviour?
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No, there’s only one way to be saved. And that’s through Jesus Christ.
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

- John 14:6
 
selahsays

selahsays

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Magenta said:
That says zero regarding free will :oops:
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I don’t understand. Maybe my definition of free will is different than yours? Free will to me means that we have a choice as to whether or not we will choose Jesus Christ as our Savior. The Elect, on the other hand, were chosen and God told them what to do. Look what God told Jeremiah to do:

Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations." Then said I: "Ah, Lord GOD! Behold, I cannot speak, for I am a youth." But the LORD said to me: "Do not say, 'I am a youth,' For you shall go to all to whom I send you, And whatever I command you, you shall speak. Do not be afraid of their faces, For I am with you to deliver you," says the LORD. Then the LORD put forth His hand and touched my mouth, and the LORD said to me: "Behold, I have put My words in your mouth.

- Jeremiah 1:4-9
 
Obedience

Obedience

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Mem said:
And speaking to John and selahsays' conversation, which brings up a thought I earlier tagged with the intent to meditate on further...
Do we have the concept of "righteousness" correct? What is it, exactly?
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Righteousness is obedience to God's word, which has been since Adam and Eve. "you can't eat it!"
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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selahsays

selahsays

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selahsays said:
I don’t understand. Maybe my definition of free will is different than yours? Free will to me means that we have a choice as to whether or not we will choose Jesus Christ as our Savior. The Elect, on the other hand, were chosen and God told them what to do. Look what God told Jeremiah to do:

Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations." Then said I: "Ah, Lord GOD! Behold, I cannot speak, for I am a youth." But the LORD said to me: "Do not say, 'I am a youth,' For you shall go to all to whom I send you, And whatever I command you, you shall speak. Do not be afraid of their faces, For I am with you to deliver you," says the LORD. Then the LORD put forth His hand and touched my mouth, and the LORD said to me: "Behold, I have put My words in your mouth.

- Jeremiah 1:4-9
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Here is an example of free will.

"And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

- Joshua 24:15
 
R

rogerg

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selahsays said:
No, there’s only one way to be saved. And that’s through Jesus Christ.
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

- John 14:6
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Not to be argumentative, but wouldn't there have to be two if it could occur on two different bases:
some would be saved through election, yet others through choice?

Wouldn't John 14:6 imply election because, it being by Christ alone, leaves no room for people's choice, but only Christ?
Otherwise, wouldn't it have to say, "except through me and Christ", because that is what choice would mean, wouldn't it -
as it wouldn't be just through Christ?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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selahsays said:
But not everyone is Elect.
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You mean "elect" according to the misconception of Calvinists. And I agree. But all those who have been justified by grace are indeed the elect and predestined "to be conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom 8:25,30).

The Calvinistic notion that God elects some for salvation and the majority for damnation is actually a damnable doctrine, which has no basis in Scripture. John 3:16,17 total refutes this nonsense.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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rogerg said:
Not to be argumentative, but wouldn't there have to be two if it could occur on two different bases:
some would be saved through election, yet others through choice?

Wouldn't John 14:6 imply election because, it being by Christ alone, leaves no room for people's choice, but only Christ?
Otherwise, wouldn't it have to say, "except through me and Christ", because that is what choice would mean, wouldn't it -
as it wouldn't be just through Christ?
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No, accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior is the only way to be saved.
 
R

rogerg

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Nehemiah6 said:
You mean "elect" according to the misconception of Calvinists. And I agree. But all those who have been justified by grace are indeed the elect and predestined "to be conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom 8:25,30).
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When someone is justified by grace, they've been saved. Justified means to be made just - as in their sins have been forgiven.
Made just in God's eyes, not man's.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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selahsays said:
I don’t understand. Maybe my definition of free will is different than yours? Free will to me means that we have a choice as to whether or not we will choose Jesus Christ as our Savior. The Elect, on the other hand, were chosen and God told them what to do. Look what God told Jeremiah to do:

Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations." Then said I: "Ah, Lord GOD! Behold, I cannot speak, for I am a youth." But the LORD said to me: "Do not say, 'I am a youth,' For you shall go to all to whom I send you, And whatever I command you, you shall speak. Do not be afraid of their faces, For I am with you to deliver you," says the LORD. Then the LORD put forth His hand and touched my mouth, and the LORD said to me: "Behold, I have put My words in your mouth.

- Jeremiah 1:4-9
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None of us are OT prophets. I am not sure why you seem to keep overlooking the distinction between an ability to choose and free will. Do you think they are the same thing? That any can choose what colour of socks to wear does not equate to a dead person having the ability to choose to be alive. Man is a slave to sin; dead in his trespasses and sins. God made us alive while we were yet sinners... He circumcises our hearts so we can love Him. Before that we are hostile in our minds toward Him. Total depravity affirms that every fiber of man's being is contaminated and affected by sin - his mind, will, and emotions. Many think this doctrine is taught only by Calvinists, but it is ubiquitous throughout Christianity, being present also in Arminian and Molinist teachings. The Bible teaches this on the will: there is God's will, and there is man's will. Man's will is either aligned with God's, or it is not, and without faith, one cannot please God. Scripture teaches that man lives "in the lusts of his flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and [is] by nature [a child] of wrath, even as the rest." All suppressed the truths of God for lies and had exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling man. There are none righteous, all have gone astray. More could be said, I am sure, but I will just add this: many do not discuss heart circumcision, which is a shame. When it happens is a whole 'nother thing. Some believe we are saved even apart from faith. I do not agree with that... but it is complex.
 
Obedience

Obedience

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Magenta said:
None of us are OT prophets. I am not sure why you seem to keep overlooking the distinction between an ability to choose and free will. Do you think they are the same thing? That any can choose what colour of socks to wear does not equate to a dead person having the ability to choose to be alive. Man is a slave to sin; dead in his trespasses and sins. God made us alive while we were yet sinners... He circumcises our hearts so we can love Him. Before that we are hostile in our minds toward Him. Total depravity affirms that every fiber of man's being is contaminated and affected by sin - his mind, will, and emotions. Many think this doctrine is taught only by Calvinists, but it is ubiquitous throughout Christianity, being present also in Arminian and Molinist teachings. The Bible teaches this on the will: there is God's will, and there is man's will. Man's will is either aligned with God's, or it is not, and without faith, one cannot please God. Scripture teaches that man lives "in the lusts of his flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and [is] by nature [a child] of wrath, even as the rest." All suppressed the truths of God for lies and had exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling man. There are none righteous, all have gone astray. More could be said, I am sure, but I will just add this: many do not discuss heart circumcision, which is a shame. When it happens is a whole 'nother thing. Some believe we are saved even apart from faith. I do not agree with that... but it is complex.
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I am still used to your typing.
 
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