Ephesians 6:12 A biblical perspective.

Clayman · Jan 15, 2024

Just to lay my viewpoint out from the beginning and so you can understand where I'm coming from, I believe according to scriptures that the demons in the gospel accounts are inactive at the moment, or more accurately I believe they were cast out and are bound for future judgment, until the day of tribulation.

Yet a trend I've noticed lately which has grown stronger over the last decade or two is the assumption that Christians are battling with unseen entities or demons, please understand from my point of view people must be under the effects of hallucinogens as I and many others have seen absolutely no evidence of demons running around tormenting people.

And as with the nature of all things, verses in scripture become twisted to accommodate peoples own bias or viewpoints I realise people may think I am blinded to facts as equally as I think they are, so just some light discussion may help understand differing perspectives.

The most common go to verse that people go to prove demons are still active, I run into is.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

I would like to point out if its possible, if it is indeed possible to look at something from another's perspective so we can point out the error in thinking. Is that from my perspective, this verse is innuendo, what I mean is it is not explicitly saying demons are the powers that are in fact ruling the world. It is being deduced by some that that is what the verse is saying in a round about way.

So when I say its talking about men I suppose those who oppose that notion can also say its innuendo and that its not saying men are the powers in darkness that are ruling the world?

And I would agree, we are taking our preconceived view, which should be from scripture not personal testimonies, and applying it to this verse.
I'm just saying other verses are explicit so they should hold more merit than this verse.

In my view the whole world is in darkness, just as I was before being born again, I was blind but now I see. The government where I live is secular and they make laws and regulations which definitely provide spiritual testing and personal spiritual battle, yet all authorities are still put there by God, they are in darkness and do the wrong thing morally all the time but they represent the immoral people of the world as a whole, I'm no longer a part of this world, and am a citizen of the heavenly kingdom, yet I must muck through this world for a short time.

Its another topic but even immoral people who dwell in darkness want to do the right thing and the ruling powers and authorities generally do and want to do a good job, and they do an amazing job considering.

If I am to give a exegesis on the armor of God in Eph 6, it will be practical and it would highlight how the parts of the armor will help us get through this world that dwells in darkness, its not to go and physically fight against those that disagree with us, for it has spiritual application where we can get assurance and strength and wisdom and humility to help us be lights in this world and have peace in our everyday life.

As I think Ephesians 6 was written for us for this very practical reason that we can still apply to ourselves today.

Yet I've heard messages on Eph 6 and I get no practical application from them, its about how we may not be wretched sinners but supposedly hidden beings are whispering into our ears alighting our desires and lusts and sinful nature etc etc and we must put on supernatural amour to defend ourselves against these beings.

While I do hear the odd good message most of the time I think the people giving them should be in a asylum. I guess I'm saying and I hope it does not come across to arrogant but people are missing the forest because of supposed demons in the trees.

Anyway please comment on how you see Eph 6:12, and if you have verses that could also be used would be great.

rrcn · Jan 15, 2024

Clayman said:

Just to lay my viewpoint out from the beginning and so you can understand where I'm coming from, I believe according to scriptures that the demons in the gospel accounts are inactive at the moment, or more accurately I believe they were cast out and are bound for future judgment, until the day of tribulation.

Yet a trend I've noticed lately which has grown stronger over the last decade or two is the assumption that Christians are battling with unseen entities or demons, please understand from my point of view people must be under the effects of hallucinogens as I and many others have seen absolutely no evidence of demons running around tormenting people.

And as with the nature of all things, verses in scripture become twisted to accommodate peoples own bias or viewpoints I realise people may think I am blinded to facts as equally as I think they are, so just some light discussion may help understand differing perspectives.

The most common go to verse that people go to prove demons are still active, I run into is.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

I would like to point out if its possible, if it is indeed possible to look at something from another's perspective so we can point out the error in thinking. Is that from my perspective, this verse is innuendo, what I mean is it is not explicitly saying demons are the powers that are in fact ruling the world. It is being deduced by some that that is what the verse is saying in a round about way.

So when I say its talking about men I suppose those who oppose that notion can also say its innuendo and that its not saying men are the powers in darkness that are ruling the world?

And I would agree, we are taking our preconceived view, which should be from scripture not personal testimonies, and applying it to this verse.
I'm just saying other verses are explicit so they should hold more merit than this verse.

In my view the whole world is in darkness, just as I was before being born again, I was blind but now I see. The government where I live is secular and they make laws and regulations which definitely provide spiritual testing and personal spiritual battle, yet all authorities are still put there by God, they are in darkness and do the wrong thing morally all the time but they represent the immoral people of the world as a whole, I'm no longer a part of this world, and am a citizen of the heavenly kingdom, yet I must muck through this world for a short time.

Its another topic but even immoral people who dwell in darkness want to do the right thing and the ruling powers and authorities generally do and want to do a good job, and they do an amazing job considering.

If I am to give a exegesis on the armor of God in Eph 6, it will be practical and it would highlight how the parts of the armor will help us get through this world that dwells in darkness, its not to go and physically fight against those that disagree with us, for it has spiritual application where we can get assurance and strength and wisdom and humility to help us be lights in this world and have peace in our everyday life.

As I think Ephesians 6 was written for us for this very practical reason that we can still apply to ourselves today.

Yet I've heard messages on Eph 6 and I get no practical application from them, its about how we may not be wretched sinners but supposedly hidden beings are whispering into our ears alighting our desires and lusts and sinful nature etc etc and we must put on supernatural amour to defend ourselves against these beings.

While I do hear the odd good message most of the time I think the people giving them should be in a asylum. I guess I'm saying and I hope it does not come across to arrogant but people are missing the forest because of supposed demons in the trees.

Anyway please comment on how you see Eph 6:12, and if you have verses that could also be used would be great.

Here are a few verses:
[Rev 12:12, 17 KJV] 12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. ... 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Artios1 · Jan 15, 2024

1Co 12:10

To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

Lifted_by_the_word · Jan 15, 2024

It's a spiritual battle.The same way the Holy Spirit can be inside a believer an unclean spirit can do the same.Principalities of darkness are unclean spirits that are in defiled temples.This is what exactly what satanic cults will do.Witches and warlocks are placed in certain areas in the world and they will wreak havoc in that area against Christians.Even if that Christian is related to the witch or warlock by blood.To them they're not family.The satanic cult is family to them the same way you are my brother.Whatever God does satan mirrors it in his own way.
I believe that in the spirit there are unclean spirits that go to and fro the same way satan walked the earth.That there's some people who wont even have a human soul that walk the earth.You can call them demons in human form.

Another thing is that fallen man is like a beast.Same for lukewarm Christians.Those without the Spirit,water,and the blood, are antichrist and worship the beast.They worship this image of the beast,the flesh of fallen man.The body is weak but the mind is willing.
If you are born of the spirit then you are in the image of the Living God.If you are not,then you are in the image of the beast.

studentoftheword · Jan 15, 2024

Clayman said:

I say --------Clayman ---this name you use gives a clue as to why you think the way you do about demons today being non active ---

Clay is a soft substance that can be molded either to think in the Negative or Positive ------and believing a LIE or TRUTH ------------

Understanding how the Enemy works is very important so one can defeat the enemy and have victory in keeping the enemy at bay in your present life -----

First --you have to understand you are a Spirit being ---you POSSESS a SOUL which is your MIND -WILL AND EMOTIONS and your Spirit and Soul are Housed in a Physical Body ---

The Mind carries your thoughts --------Everything in this Physical World that Humans created was first a THOUGHT in their MINDS ------the Breakfast table that one uses everyday ---started as a thought in the Mind of the person who needed to have a breakfast table --then that thought was put into action by the person following their THOUGHT -----you don't see your thoughts ----they are unsee until you act on the thought and manifest it in your life --this thought comes from God ------

A Serial Murderer ---thinks and plans in their unseen MIND about Killing and how they will kill their victim ---this THOUGHT is FROM WHO ____GOD ____NO ---------SATAN ----

NOW this Serial Murderer can cast out this Bad THINKING of KILLING ---or he Can ENTERTAIN this THOUGHT ----this person has free will to choose to act on a bad THOUGHT or NOT -----But Satan is a powerful enemy who has a strong hold on a person's mind ----

Satan's biggest Lie is to make people Believe that he and his demons are not active today ------and it seems he has you on his radar ------

Satan has been given full reign by God to get into the minds of people ---by creating doubt --fear and unbelief in God and His Word ------no one is exempt from Satan and his tribe attacking the mind of People at this time -----

All Actions come from A THOUGHT first ----your body moves to your thoughts ------that is why God Says ---Change the Way you THINK --------

So Clayman you have been totally molded in your mind by Satan and his tribe to think the way you do ---here ------

Your Quote :
I believe according to scriptures that the demons in the gospel accounts are inactive at the moment, or more accurately I believe they were cast out and are bound for future judgment, until the day of tribulation.
The most common go to verse that people go to prove demons are still active,Eph 6:12

I say
So we see that Satan has cast his ------Hook --Line and Sinker out and Duped your thought life ----saying GOTCHA

----YOUR IN SPIRITUAL WAR EVERYDAY ----IN YOUR MIND ----WHO WILL WIN ???????????????

Clayman · Jan 15, 2024

studentoftheword said:

To me a murderer can come up with the idea from their own selves, in fact the idea that Satan literally puts the idea of murder into the minds of every serial murderer is taking things past the abstract, if that is the case is every sinful thought literally from Satan?

From your point of view how does Satan or his demons put thoughts into people, is it telekinetically? I really dont understand!

I also love that picture of verse Eph 6:16 you have posted and when I use the shield of faith to deflect the darts of untruth metaphorically from Satan, I just go to the bible and believe what is written, for faith comes from hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

You said that I'm being inadvertently suckered by Satan by believing the demons are not active today, you do realise if your wrong in your assumptions that from my perspective your also firing flaming arrows of untruth at me by saying demons are active today which is the opposite to the Word of God, and are inadvertently copying Satan by purporting untruth at me and doing the same work as him?

I'm just being as abstract as possible, I know you have more than good intentions and believe you are correct and right Im just trying to show the other side side of the coin so you can understand my position which of course I also think I'm correct and right.

Any way to me God is in complete control of the world, and things are working out according to His plan, nothing Satan or the demons could do if they could do anything will change anything anyway.

Something that rings true to me is, the more credit people give Satan the less credit they give God, they end up giving Satan glory and God less glory, God alone is worthy or worship and glory and honor.

God is sovereign, all knowing and in control of all things, He makes me and molds me and this is what I pray.

When Christ came he disarmed all authorities at the cross and made a public spectacle of them.

When it comes to murder I cant help but think of Cain, the Lord respected Abel and his offering and He did not accept Cain and his offering, Cain got angry and his countenance fell, the Lord told Cain "sin lies at the door and it's desire is for you" gen 4:6
So we can see sin is being personified it is our sinful nature that takes root and leads to sinful actions.

Which is reinforced in James 1:12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Clayman · Jan 15, 2024

Lifted_by_the_word said:

I can agree that all people who are not saved and are in darkness have the spirit of antichrist, yet I struggle with how you connect the dots that all witches and warlocks are demon possessed I mean I have met and do know a person who calls themselves a witch, they are a lovely and nice person, just deluded about things.
Yet when I think of demon possession I think of the gospel accounts, when someone had a demon cast out of them, it was a witness to everyone in the area, I mean everyone believed in demons then, Jews and gentiles, even in a gentile town full of unbelievers they believed the demons had been cast out, Cant you see a difference from today to then, demons were common knowledge because they were active and real, today they are unseen and well and the only reason people believe they are real is a lack of faith.

Yet in the future, the pit will be opened up, and demons will come out of it and just like in the gospel accounts everyone believer or not will again see and know demons are real my friend.

Clayman · Jan 15, 2024

rrcn said:

Interesting verse, Im reminded of Daniels timeline, it prophesied 70 weeks or 490 years till the culmination of the age, then the 1000 year period where the Messiah comes and Israel rules the world, the time we live in now was hidden, What I mean is the Church was a mystery it was there but not in the prophetic timeline of things to come, which is why the Jews still have a hard time understanding the concept of two comings of the Messiah.

I think Satan also had no concept of the mystery, he could follow the prophetic outline which meant he understood he was cast down to earth for a short time, the Lord said "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" and Satan would then have known he had about 40 years from when he fell, which is a short time. And then years later the Lord said "Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out."

Yet theoretically Satan would have believed he still had another few years until Daniels week was fulfilled, so the prophetic timeline was stopped the mystery age had begun, but one day soon, the 70 weeks will resume, the pit will be opened up, the demons will be released and their king the will be released with them, and what will he do? he will again rule the world, he will enter into the ruler of the world(Antichrist) and direct the world against Israel.

Aaron56 · Jan 15, 2024

I'm not opposed to this discussion.

BUT, in my view, the letter to the Ephesians is perhaps the single most poignant writing on the substance of our covenant in Christ. Paul expertly outlines a sort-of Believer's Constitution, the parts of which comprise an airtight legal argument for Christ living in and through we who are His body. It is like a letter from the throne of God to His subjects in a foreign realm who are organizing to annex the realm and make it obedient to the King. The language of war is necessary, however, seeing that the current rulers of the realm are opposed to the King.

studentoftheword · Jan 15, 2024

Clayman said:

Satan is so laughing at you right now ---with this Comment ----

So Sad that you are so DUPED by the Master himself

Clayman · Jan 15, 2024

Aaron56 said:

I hear you, and agree with the fact that we are the Lords subjects in a foreign realm, I see us as ambassadors for Christ we are to let our light shine and our love for each other and others be foremost, the epistle begins with love and ends with love, in Revelation to the churches its noted that those in Ephesus left their first love. Ephesians also begins with how we were chosen before the foundation of the world, predestined to be "sons of God" by Jesus Christ to Himself.

To me the language of war is necessary for as you say the rulers of this realm are opposed to the king, but we as ambassadors are also going to be mistreated as the king would be, we will be persecuted, mistreated, imprisoned falsely, sneered at jeered at, killed etc etc

Yet the battle is not to bring Eygpt under control of the slaves, but to bring the slaves out, to look across the Jordan to that faraway land of promise. Knowing this for me is a huge encouragement, wearing the girdle of truth means knowing we are going to lose the fight in this world, but win in the next life strengthens my trust in God. The helmet of salvation is worn on the head for a reason, its where our brain is, we know that salvation is assured for God said so, (simply put) its not a feeling its a knowledge of the covenant or our constitution, and cant be revoked.

Clayman · Jan 15, 2024

studentoftheword said:

Lol he can laugh all he wants I suppose, Just so you know where Im coming form, you could be telling me Lars from mars is on earth in control of all bad things and making people murder people and cos I dont believe it, is right now laughing at me.

GRACE_ambassador · Jan 15, 2024

op: spiritual warfare?
A Biblical Perspective:

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against

principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the

darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in

high places." (Ephesians 6:12)

Are these spiritual entities "cast out and are bound for future judgment, until the day of tribulation."?:

"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them

which believe not, lest The Light of the Glorious Gospel of Christ,

Who is The Image of God, should Shine unto them." (2Co 4:4)

Present Day, Under Grace, Correct? Also, how about?:

"But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice

to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have

fellowship with devils." (1Co 10:20)

+

"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this

world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit

that now worketh in the children of disobedience: " (Eph 2:2)

Thus, no, not bound, but active in our "spiritual warfare" we wrestle;
let us make super-abundantly Sure we have on God's Full Armour!
(Ephesians 6:11-19)

Amen?

Clayman · Jan 15, 2024

GRACE_ambassador said:

I may repeat myself but just for clarity, when you read those verses you have it ingrained in your head that its talking about spiritual demons and so forth, so you are asking me the question as if I understand it the way you do, yet from my perspective the rulers and the principalities are men, they are the kings the presidents the governments of this world, and the world is in darkness so we have spiritual warfare in this world. So the question is a moot point for me.

Let me try and explain, my brother is a non believer and there is contention towards me from him, yet Im in a spiritual battle for him I want nothing more than for him to accept Christ as his personal savior, now this battle is not a flesh and blood battle, its a spiritual battle, he has to recognise he is a sinner needing salvation, and as mush as I try and convince him he opposes the Word of God.

The same with the world, it is not a physical battle we are in, but spiritual battle, while in some countries they value freedom, they also bring in immoral mandates and try and educate our kids with falsehoods, such as the fiery darts of evolution taught in some education systems, yet those in high places have authority to do such things and we need to defend and armor ourselves for this battle. Im just giving one side of a 20 sided dice to help explain how I see it.

Satan is not the god of this world in the sense you are meaning, he is not some powerful figure overseeing the running of the world and literally blinding people to the truth of salvation.

He is the god of the world in the sense people are in darkness and follow him in his pattern of rejecting Christ, The world is synonymous with the fall and sin, Satan does not have to be in the USA for people there to follow him, Satan does not have to be in the Gaza strip for people there to follow him, Satan does not have to even be in the world for the world to follow him. So not sure why this is a proof verse to show how Satan is presently in this world, to me he could be in heaven or in hades and people will still blindly follow him. In fact the fact that the term god is used shows me the opposite that he is in fact not here.

I remember you are part of the two(grace)gospel group, so you know the term "wherin times past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air" is not talking about "but now" the church age, and in times past Satan did walk in this world, and as for "the spirit "that now" worketh in the children of disobedience" to me is not meaning Satan is currently indwelling all unbelievers, but its the same spirit of rejection, or the same spirit of dissipation, etc etc

In other words, spirit has more than one meaning, If someone has a joyful spirit it can be infectious and the joyful spirit can contaminate all those present etc etc

Maybe another tact, Could you give me an example, maybe that would help me! tell me something the spiritual demonic powers are doing right now that shows they must be here causing it?

jb · Jan 15, 2024

Clayman said:

To me a murderer can come up with the idea from their own selves, in fact the idea that Satan literally puts the idea of murder into the minds of every serial murderer is taking things past the abstract, if that is the case is every sinful thought literally from Satan?

From your point of view how does Satan or his demons put thoughts into people, is it telekinetically? I really dont understand!

I also love that picture of verse Eph 6:16 you have posted and when I use the shield of faith to deflect the darts of untruth metaphorically from Satan, I just go to the bible and believe what is written, for faith comes from hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

You said that I'm being inadvertently suckered by Satan by believing the demons are not active today, you do realise if your wrong in your assumptions that from my perspective your also firing flaming arrows of untruth at me by saying demons are active today which is the opposite to the Word of God, and are inadvertently copying Satan by purporting untruth at me and doing the same work as him?

I'm just being as abstract as possible, I know you have more than good intentions and believe you are correct and right Im just trying to show the other side side of the coin so you can understand my position which of course I also think I'm correct and right.

Any way to me God is in complete control of the world, and things are working out according to His plan, nothing Satan or the demons could do if they could do anything will change anything anyway.

Something that rings true to me is, the more credit people give Satan the less credit they give God, they end up giving Satan glory and God less glory, God alone is worthy or worship and glory and honor.

God is sovereign, all knowing and in control of all things, He makes me and molds me and this is what I pray.

When Christ came he disarmed all authorities at the cross and made a public spectacle of them.

When it comes to murder I cant help but think of Cain, the Lord respected Abel and his offering and He did not accept Cain and his offering, Cain got angry and his countenance fell, the Lord told Cain "sin lies at the door and it's desire is for you" gen 4:6
So we can see sin is being personified it is our sinful nature that takes root and leads to sinful actions.

Which is reinforced in James 1:12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Satan and the powers of darkness (i.e., the evil angels and demons) are NOT abstract, dear boy, but very real in the world and heavenly places!

So, I'd go back to "the drawing board," so to speak!

Blade · Jan 15, 2024

Hi Clayman you said " I believe according to scriptures that the demons in the gospel accounts are inactive at the moment, or more accurately I believe they were cast out and are bound for future judgment, until the day of tribulation. " Yet you didn't post those scriptures. I would to see them I must have missed them and I mean that.

Lets look at "sin lies at the door". Seems something came happened before that. See Adam and Eve passed that tree of life all the time yet never once had a thought from with in them selves to eat it never. It was only till Satan spoke to Eve. What happened after that was what GOD gave us we handed over to Satan so as Christ said Satan is the god of this world who is like a roaring lion seeking who he can kill. Job? God asked where you coming from? To and fro walking the earth.

Facts.. no one knows what where demons came from. Some believe they are the fallen angels others believe they are those that died in the flood. See you have fallen angels taking not asking taking woman then having children of great power and height. Another we don't know, was there just a few thousands on the earth before the flood or billions we don't know. So those "children" were never meant to be what happens when they die? We don't know.

There are some fallen Angels in chains because they will not listen to God "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment ". I can not say more about that since is not written.

So it would seem your only looking at this through the natural. Some do tend to believe based on only what they see hear and feel which is the natural This is not the real realm. Christ talking about salvation, born from above told him “I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?” . Christ and the 12 casting out demons. We know once they are cast out if that home which is now clean does not have some else "CHRIST" those that were cast out bring 7 more far evil then the first. Acts Ananias and Sapphira "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit ...". That thought they got to lie they listen to just like Adam and Eve. I didn't touch the OT and about then we have the shield of Faith? We know its not just Satan running everywhere all alone out there.

montana123 · Jan 15, 2024

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

As long as humans have a choice on earth and Jesus has not taken over the earth in which it is only His way the devils are free to roam and influence mankind although they are on a leash.

It is mankind's sin condition that allows the devil to be able to influence mankind.

Which they influence governments, and high positions of power, for they have much influence over the people to be able to deceive them.

Which because of their high arrogance, and self exalting ways the devil can influence them more than a common person.

Which the Bible says many are called but few are chosen, but not many noble, not many mighty, not many wise after the flesh are called because of their heart condition of arrogance, and self exaltation.

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.

Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

The devil is active in the world, and influencing people in the world.

Which Lucifer will deceive the world to rebel against God like he influenced some of the angels to rebel against God.

God is love, and loves all people, but He has to end sin on earth one day for He is not going to allow mankind to keep sinning on earth, and it is on a time schedule that He has allowed mankind to have salvation.

Which He is giving the world 7 years to have their way, and cause all people that do not love Him to follow the New Age Christ, antichrist, and when they do then He will end sin on earth.

God is allowing the devils to deceive all people that do not love Him so the devil can influence mankind more than he could in the past.

The new age movement is the beginning of the end.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

God warns the saints of the new age movement which they interpret the Bible according to the occult and evolution, and people are still evolving to be spiritual, and Jesus evolved to be an ascended master, and there is no personal God, but they honor the God of forces the power of nature, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher and above Jesus.

They shall come out at the latter times which is the last days of the last days, and close to Jesus taking His people off the earth.

Their beliefs will be of seducing spirits and doctrines of devils which they follow Lucifer believing he is a god, and an alien, that gave mankind intelligence, and will help mankind to have peace, advance, and evolve along with the New Age Christ.

They do not believe Lucifer is a fallen angel for they do not believe in a God.

The United Nations supports new age organizations and is with them as well as Science.

Which Science says humans are not from the earth, and the world needs to prepare for an alien encounter.

Which they say is God an alien as they try to convince people that God is an alien.

Which they believe aliens are going to help mankind which they talk about the return of the gods.

Some shall depart from the faith and follow the new age movement interpretation of the Bible.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The time will come when people will want to hear the Bible according to their own lusts, the new age movement to evolve to be spiritual, and there is no higher power above them which they will say I am, and there is no one else beside me.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The New Age Christ will negotiate peace in the Middle East resulting in a 7 years peace treaty which will stop the fighting between Israel and the Arabs, and stop the fighting in the world that chose sides, and all fighting.

For the first three and one half years salvation is available to the world.

The New Age Christ will be considered a great man of peace, and become the biggest player on the world scene, and will push the agenda of the new age movement which he will think to change times and laws.

They will stop the preaching of anything taught contrary to the new age movement which all religions will be interpreted by them that they are evolving to be spiritual, and there is no personal God, and will be the time that they will want to hear the Bible according to the new age movement.

At the end of the first three and one half years the transgressors have come to the full and war will break out in heaven, and the devils will be cast to earth which becomes their holding cell, and Satan is no longer the prince of the power of the air.

The devil will appear as the New Age Christ and deceive all people who do not love God.

The devils will deceive all people who do not love God which is the strong delusion He will send all people who do not love the truth but have pleasure in unrighteousness.

For the first three and one half years the New Age Christ will be influenced by the devil, and for the last three and one half years he will be controlled by the devil.

Continued in next post

montana123 · Jan 15, 2024

Continued from above post

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Some people think that this war happened when Satan was kicked out of heaven but it is not.

Satan is the prince of the power of the air and the sky above us is considered heaven the first heaven, and there is a second heaven, and he was kicked out of the third heaven.

This war happens when the transgressors come to the full stopping the preaching of the Gospel, and the belief of a personal God, and the devils are cast to earth which they deceive all people who do not love God.

This war has not happened which says the woman fled to the wilderness for three and one half years which Israel is protected from physical attack.

And then the devils are cast to earth.

And then the woman was given two wings of a great eagle to fly in to the wilderness which Israel is protected for another three and oner half years, which is the 7 years that shall happen in the future when the time comes God gives the world 7 years to have their way to cause all people that do not love Him to follow the New Age Christ.

That war has not happened and the devils will be cast to earth in the future, which Satan is the prince of the power of the air, and the devil roams through the earth seeking whom he may devour, so the devils are active in the world influencing people which influencing governments, and positions of much authority deceives many people.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

There are 7 kings.

5 are fallen which are 1.Egypt 2.Assyria 3.Babylon 4.Medo-Persia 5.Greece.

One is at the time John wrote Revelation, 6.Roman Empire.

One is to come which shall continue for a short space, 7. 10 horn kingdom the world split it to 10 sections with a leader in each section, which they shall rule for the first three and one half years of the 7 years period.

8. The New Age Christ, antichrist, which he is of the seven for the devil influenced those kingdoms.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Which shows the devil is active in the world, and the 7 kingdoms were influenced by him which is what Ephesians 6:12 is speaking about.

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

The Roman Empire does not lose their dominion until Jesus puts down the world which 10 horns shall come from them the 7th king, which they shall devour the whole earth, tread it down, and break it in to pieces, which the 10 horn kingdom is the physical dominion of the beast.

This shall happen by way of the new age movement which they shall establish in the world as the only belief system that will be tolerated which is a Caucasian led plan which the New Age Christ will be a Caucasian man which the Bible says the prince to come shall be from the people that overthrew Jerusalem which is the Roman Empire.

In Revelation chapter 12 the crowns are on the heads, the 7 kingdoms, which means Satan in the spiritual realm deceiving people.

In chapter 13 the heads are on the horns, the 10 horn kingdom, which is Satan in the physical realm deceiving people.

The devil is active in the world because as long as mankind has a choice and Jesus has not taken over the earth which it is only His way the devils can influence mankind but they are on a leash but will have more influence in the future during the 7 years.

It is people's sin condition that allows the devils to influence mankind and they will influence more during the 7 years.

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

During the millennial reign of Christ there is peace for the devil is not influencing the nations but when he is loosed he stirs up the heathen.

So if the devil was not active in the world there would be peace.

The devil does not deceive the nations during the millennial reign of Christ which means he was active in the world.

Mat 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

The devils were active here which they possessed 2 men.

Nehemiah6 · Jan 15, 2024

Clayman said:

There are many more demons than those mentioned in the Gospel accounts. What Paul said in Ephesians 6 is presently a reality. Indeed all the increase in evil and wickedness within the last few years has really no other explanation than a rise in demonic activity.

Clayman · Jan 15, 2024

Blade said:

Thanks blade,

It seems you realise what scriptures I would use as you posted them and began a defense of the usage

I know exactly where they came from, I think the bible is the completed revelation of Gods will for us, and when one says something is unknown to us, they mean they do not yet understand Gods revelation to us with clarity, which is a wise position to take as we are all discovering things in Gods Word day by day, but as we are always discovering new things then surely we can all agree, things unknown to us today can become known from Gods revelation in His Word.

So when I say I know exactly where they came from, I just mean I think scripture tells me exactly where they came from, If I can do a bit of a preamble first.

To me Christ is the center piece of our creation, He was foreordained before the creation of the world, and the cross was the mechanism of our salvation, which is in the center of our universe.

God resided in heaven with his angels and they could see faithful men, and could also see we were filthy sinners, God just over two thousand years ago, stood up from His throne in heaven vacated heaven and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, in other words God became a babe born in a manger.

I have my reasons why I think the angels then rebelled and rejected Jesus Christ but its a topic I don't want to go near, just say we sinful humans are unworthy of God coming to be our King and maybe they didn't like that idea and didn't understand all that was going to happen, yes some of the angels lacked faith in Jesus and were also given free choice.

Anyway Satan was ruling on the earth as king and was about to be superseded, for now the world had a new king Israel's Messiah was now coming.

Satan's sin was prophesied in Isaiah 14, verse 13 For you have said in your heart I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will also sit on the mount of congregation. On the furthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the most high.

And in Rev 12 we can see one third of the angels joined in the rebellion and were going to let Lucifer rule over them in heaven, but Michael and the other two thirds of the angels stood up against them.

Rev 12
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

(the first wonder seen, Israel now in labor about to give birth to their Messiah)

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

The second wonder also gives us the exact timing of events Satan ascends above the clouds to take the throne in heaven, one third of the stars of God followed Satan yet Michael and the two thirds of angels cast them down to earth, now Satan through Herod tried to kill all the children in Bethlehem to devour the child as soon as it was born.

And now we have fallen angels on earth(demons), they have left their habitation of heaven and are now serpents amongst Israel.

I disagree I think it is written, I notice the first thing you said is some fallen angels are in chains, I think you have accidently added the word some. I think the verse clearly states that the angels, which is one third of them who did not keep their first estate are in chains.

Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Ephesians 6:12 A biblical perspective.

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