Sex Before Marriage
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T
Where does it say that this was his wife? (Hint: it doesn't. In fact, it's pretty clear that she wasn't his wife.)
And, if you believe Isaiah didn't fornicate, then you are saying that fornication does not include all sex outside of marriage, since Isaiah did have sex with someone to whom he was not married.
And, if you believe Isaiah didn't fornicate, then you are saying that fornication does not include all sex outside of marriage, since Isaiah did have sex with someone to whom he was not married.
I believe "sex outside of Biblical marriage" covers everything that is done as far as that goes. I notice that not that many people really study or believe the Bible concerning Biblical Marriage. Matthew 5 and Matthew 19 give Jesus teaching on marriage. It's sad to see so many people are in adultery according to Jesus. I know by experience because my mother has been divorced and remarried. It's not Biblical and causes many problems. If someone can read Matthew 5 and Matthew 19 and not believe Jesus they are stubborn. It shows how little people know the Bible or obey Jesus to see so many in adultery.
A
I would disagree with your interpretation. In context, Paul is talking about eating food sacrificed to idols and other lawful acts. He's not saying it's lawful to murder or engage in sexual immorality, for example. But your interpretation would assert that murder and sexual immorality are lawful... though not expedient. You have drawn a very wrong interpretation and the only ones I've personally met that assert what you did from this verse are attempting to justify immoral behavior.
Marriage is a commitment. So the marriage was consummated through sex (as in the days of old only) or a ceremony its the commitment before God that made it legitimate. Cultures in terms of what established the decision may differ, but the essence of God's law is the same....In our culture, fornication is sex outside of a legitimate marriage decision before God. Please people, not as a matter of argument, but as a matter of salvation, don't play with God's word....
one of the hardest commandments to follow in my opinion.
T
By "our culture," do you mean the US? Or White Anglo-Saxon Protestants? Or do you have some other understanding of "our culture"?
One of the problems is the word "marriage" means something very different to different people. To a Christian, it may have the above meaning, but let's face it, an atheist really doesn't care what God thinks, and has made no "decision before God." I understand if you think that means an atheist isn't "really" married, but in the US, atheists have the right to marry, so we need to think of a different definition of the word "marriage" when discussing something that applies to people who may not be Christian.
Personally, I think the word "marriage" should be eliminated completely, because I don't see any way for us (Christians and non-) to agree about what it is. I think the US should not grant rights based on marital status, but on "civil unions." Any couple who wants to receive the legal rights this country offers should need to get a "civil union," and such couples can be any consenting adults. And if a couple wants to make a decision before God, and celebrate that decision, it can be done in a Church, called "holy matrimony," and such a rite has absolutely no secular legal benefits. (The religious benefits of a godly marriage cannot be disputed! I'm talking about inheritance rights, joint property, etc.) Most of us Christians would get both, but they would be separate affairs offering completely different things.
One of the problems is the word "marriage" means something very different to different people. To a Christian, it may have the above meaning, but let's face it, an atheist really doesn't care what God thinks, and has made no "decision before God." I understand if you think that means an atheist isn't "really" married, but in the US, atheists have the right to marry, so we need to think of a different definition of the word "marriage" when discussing something that applies to people who may not be Christian.
Personally, I think the word "marriage" should be eliminated completely, because I don't see any way for us (Christians and non-) to agree about what it is. I think the US should not grant rights based on marital status, but on "civil unions." Any couple who wants to receive the legal rights this country offers should need to get a "civil union," and such couples can be any consenting adults. And if a couple wants to make a decision before God, and celebrate that decision, it can be done in a Church, called "holy matrimony," and such a rite has absolutely no secular legal benefits. (The religious benefits of a godly marriage cannot be disputed! I'm talking about inheritance rights, joint property, etc.) Most of us Christians would get both, but they would be separate affairs offering completely different things.
Originally Posted by Israel
Isaiah 8:1-3
1Moreover the LORD said unto me, Take thee a great roll, and write in it with a man's pen concerning Mahershalalhashbaz.
2And I took unto me faithful witnesses to record, Uriah the priest, and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah.
3And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz.
Isaiah 8:1-3
1Moreover the LORD said unto me, Take thee a great roll, and write in it with a man's pen concerning Mahershalalhashbaz.
2And I took unto me faithful witnesses to record, Uriah the priest, and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah.
3And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz.
T
If anyone cares, here's the original Hebrew (I don't know how to get the Hebrew font, so I'm giving the English spelling of the Hebrew words):
1. vayomer YHVH elay qach-l’ka gilayon gadol uktov alayv b’cheret enosh l’maher-shalal-chash-baz
2. v’aydah li ediym be’emanym at uryah hakohen v’at z’karyahu ben y’berekyahu
3. va’eqrav el-hanviyah vathahar vathled ben vayomer YHVH elay qra shmu maher-shalal-chash-baz
Here's my best translation, without checking against dictionaries and such:
The LORD said to me, “Take for yourself a large tablet and write on it in the carving of a mortal for Maher-shalal-chash-baz*."
So I called to myself faithful witnesses: Uriah the priest, and Zachariah, son of Jeberechia.
And I entered the prophetess, and she conceived and bore a son; and the LORD said, you shall call his name Maher-shalal-chash-baz.
If you were concerned about the word translated as "into" or "unto," it means to enter in, approach, draw near .... And it's in the Qal, for whatever that's worth.
It seems pretty clear to me that the prophetess was NOT his wife before this.
1. vayomer YHVH elay qach-l’ka gilayon gadol uktov alayv b’cheret enosh l’maher-shalal-chash-baz
2. v’aydah li ediym be’emanym at uryah hakohen v’at z’karyahu ben y’berekyahu
3. va’eqrav el-hanviyah vathahar vathled ben vayomer YHVH elay qra shmu maher-shalal-chash-baz
Here's my best translation, without checking against dictionaries and such:
The LORD said to me, “Take for yourself a large tablet and write on it in the carving of a mortal for Maher-shalal-chash-baz*."
So I called to myself faithful witnesses: Uriah the priest, and Zachariah, son of Jeberechia.
And I entered the prophetess, and she conceived and bore a son; and the LORD said, you shall call his name Maher-shalal-chash-baz.
If you were concerned about the word translated as "into" or "unto," it means to enter in, approach, draw near .... And it's in the Qal, for whatever that's worth.
It seems pretty clear to me that the prophetess was NOT his wife before this.
Sweetheart...Like I mentioned before this is not a fight.... It seems as though we want to find excuses to support fornication or change the label thereof.
I am just saying to all (not you in particular) lets not play with God's word. We know what God means by fornication, so why mince with it.
And yes i did mean it the other way around, thanks for pointing it out
Take care.
I am just saying to all (not you in particular) lets not play with God's word. We know what God means by fornication, so why mince with it.
And yes i did mean it the other way around, thanks for pointing it out
Take care.
T
Actually, I'm not convinced "we all know what God means by fornication."
There are some things that are blatantly fornication, and no tap-dance will change that. But I'm not convinced that all sex outside of marriage is "fornication." I believe that, if a couple is in love and have pledged their fidelity to each other and to God, whether or not they have a piece of paper to prove it, that couple is not committing fornication when they have sex. I believe they are sharing the gift that God gave them.
I know a lot of people would say, "Well, why don't they just get married then?" There are a lot of reasons why a couple who loves each other may choose not to get married in the states' eyes. It could be financial, or practical, or legal, but for whatever reason, they choose not to get "that piece of paper." Okay, you can argue that they are married in God's eyes, and I would probably agree with you. However, when you say, "all sex outside of marriage is fornication" without defining what marriage is, you exclude people in these rare situations,
Personally, I am happily married and don't particularly want to have sex with anyone besides my husband, so it's not a matter of me trying to justify anything. It's a matter of recognizing that God's Word for one person may not be exactly what God's Word is for another person, and just because I happen to be married to the man I love and the father of my child doesn't mean everyone else has that same situation. To tell someone else he or she is sinning, when only God knows what is going on, is in itself sin.
There are some things that are blatantly fornication, and no tap-dance will change that. But I'm not convinced that all sex outside of marriage is "fornication." I believe that, if a couple is in love and have pledged their fidelity to each other and to God, whether or not they have a piece of paper to prove it, that couple is not committing fornication when they have sex. I believe they are sharing the gift that God gave them.
I know a lot of people would say, "Well, why don't they just get married then?" There are a lot of reasons why a couple who loves each other may choose not to get married in the states' eyes. It could be financial, or practical, or legal, but for whatever reason, they choose not to get "that piece of paper." Okay, you can argue that they are married in God's eyes, and I would probably agree with you. However, when you say, "all sex outside of marriage is fornication" without defining what marriage is, you exclude people in these rare situations,
Personally, I am happily married and don't particularly want to have sex with anyone besides my husband, so it's not a matter of me trying to justify anything. It's a matter of recognizing that God's Word for one person may not be exactly what God's Word is for another person, and just because I happen to be married to the man I love and the father of my child doesn't mean everyone else has that same situation. To tell someone else he or she is sinning, when only God knows what is going on, is in itself sin.
N
The thing with the no sex before marriage rule is it either
1. screws people over who never get married
2. or causes people to want to marry just so they can have sex
In my opinion I think its better to have sex outside of marriage than make a lifelong commitment and break it just cause you wanted to have sex.
1. screws people over who never get married
2. or causes people to want to marry just so they can have sex
In my opinion I think its better to have sex outside of marriage than make a lifelong commitment and break it just cause you wanted to have sex.