Questions

[Kenneth]

Questions Part 1.​

In our church pastor gives us a chance to ask questions at the end of his sermon. I want to give you just a few of the questions and answers



# 1. what does it mean in the Bible when it says a woman must be silent in church.

This is a problem with the Greek translation into the English. The proper word should be that a woman should not chatter in church. Pastor will not allow either men or women to chatter in church when God's word is being taught. When it comes to women Philip had four daughters they were all virgins and they prophesied. You might want to say that a man helped them but that's not true because they were all virgins. They converted the whole strip from Gaza clear up to Tyra which Israel never did but these four women along with Philip were able to convert them. A wrong translation can do a lot of harm when they pull away from the manuscripts this is why scholarly work is so important. Here it would seem that there is a contradiction in God's word but there is no contradiction in God's word it's in man's interpretation, or a lack of property teaching, that caused this problem.



#2. I believe that when the Antichrist comes we will all still be in flesh bodies?

This is absolutely correct.

I have a second question if I am in pain does that mean that I'm still in my flesh body?

Yes it does and if you can pinch yourself and and you feel it you are definitely still in your flesh body. That's not difficult to understand is it. A third of the angels that were deceived in the first Earth age as it is stipulated in Revelation 12.3 and there appeared another Wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon having seven heads and 10 horns, and 7 crowns upon their heads. Verse 4. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of Heaven, and did cast them to the Earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered for to deliver her child as soon as it was born. That is who God wants to see if in the flesh they will still want to worship the snake or will they listen to the teaching, the seed planting that will pull them away from Satan to God. If they fall again after the Millennium they're done there is no third chance.

#3. Is the Antichrist symbolic or will he actually appear in the flesh?

He will not appear in the flesh because he is a spiritual being he was one of the cherubim that covered The Mercy Seat in the first Earth age. Satan when he appears will look just like a normal man but he will be a spiritual being it will appear to most that he is just another man because he will look like us, he will eat like us, the only way you will know who he is, is with spiritual discernment. I can guarantee you that if you've ever been around someone with a demonic spirit you will be able to discern it.



#4. How much gold and silver, or other things of value should we have on hand to prepare for the hour of Temptation.

Well how long is the hour of Temptation? It is a 5-month that God promises us something and it is a real big promise, it is in Revelation chapter 2 verse 10 that no individual, even though there are 5 months of persecution no person will have have more than 10 days of persecution. You have a pretty good limit there, you should always have things that you can barter with. If you happen to have a watch on your arm or any type of jewelry you can take that to your local Merchant and trade it for food or anything else you might need, that way you will not have to worship the Antichrist in order to get his money to be able to sustain yourself. You don't need to be stocking up enough silver, gold, or anything else for a lifetime you must remember that this is only going to be a 5-month period. It must remember that back in the day when most people were either businessmen or farmers they would trade their labor or their goods for other things that they had need of most of the time money was never exchanged.



#5. Why is it that good people have to die? Why is it that when they get old they have to get sick, broken down, and die.

The answer to that is that these flash bodies are not our real bodies. And First Corinthians chapter 15 you will read that we have two bodies, at this present time, one is the flesh body and the other is a spiritual body. It is true that this flesh body will get old, that at any time in life it can get sick and you could die. We are really not at home in this flesh body, but you have a spiritual body that will never get old, never get sick, and will never die. That spiritual body is eternal, that is why some people have seen angels and they appear as a young person. First Corinthians 15 verse 42. So also is theis the resurrection of the Dead. It is sown an incorruption; it is raised in incorruption: verse 43. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sow and in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power verse 44. it is so on a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. Remember when the two women went to the Tomb of Jesus. Luke 24verse 1 now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. Verse 2. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulcher. Verse 3. And they entered in, and found not the Lord Jesus. Verse 4 and it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments.

We were getting a little long here, and I will pick it up later because there are more questions answers to follow.

Remember every day in God's word is a good day.

 

[p_rehbein]

# 1. what does it mean in the Bible when it says a woman must be silent in church

IF you are going to discern Scripture, you need to do so by keeping Scripture in the proper context IMO.

I Corinthians, Chapter 14:

34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Scripture is pretty clear. Paul believes women should keep silent in the churches. Now, knowing that he was dealing with people (men and women) who were just leaving their Pagan ritual services (House of 1,000 Prostitutes) and learning about Christianity, I can see why he would say something like this. I would think the women, who had been practicing prostitution, did not have a great understanding of Scripture, or the Gospel of Jesus. Thus, they would be a distraction. Verse 35 tends to reveal this since Paul says "if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home:"

IMO, this is clear women are not to speak in the churches. Speech would include audible praying, singing, fellowshipping, etc. As well, the let them ask their husbands would suggest they were not to own or read Scripture. Let their husbands teach them.

(my thoughts)

 

[p_rehbein]

This is what the Complete Jewish Bible says:

34 let the wives remain silent when the congregation meets; they are certainly not permitted to speak out. Rather, let them remain subordinate, as also the Torah says;
35 and if there is something they want to know, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for a woman to speak out in a congregational meeting.

This and the KJV are in agreement IMO, and I know they were not both translated by the same peoples.

 

[ChristFllwr]

verses 26-40 of 1Cor 14 is about keeping order in the church, whether speaking in tongues or in prophecy. :28 - tongues and no interpreter; then they were to keep quiet. Requirements for prophecy were also given. This was written when women and men sat on different sides of the church and so women, if they didn't understand what was being taught, would call out to their husbands for explanation. Remember that women of that era were not allowed to learn unless they were taught at home by a husband or father. Paul was simply trying to set up order for the exercising of spiritual gifts and for order in the church. The culture was very different then and they were still following the requirements of the law :34 "...women must be in submission as the Law states." It is never good to disrupt a church service and so order is still required today, although women are allowed to speak in that they can be worship leaders, read the bulletins and sometime deliver Sunday sermon for a pastor. Hope this helps

 

[Snackersmom]

IMO, this is clear women are not to speak in the churches. Speech would include audible praying, singing, fellowshipping, etc. As well, the let them ask their husbands would suggest they were not to own or read Scripture. Let their husbands teach them.

(my thoughts)

No singing or fellowshipping even? It sounds like you're being intentionally hurtful, but I'm sure you don't mean it that way .

Also, may I keep my Bible as long as I don't snag a husband to teach me? 'Cuz I think I can handle that trade (especially if he was going to tell me I can't sing in church!)

 

[p_rehbein]

No singing or fellowshipping even? It sounds like you're being intentionally hurtful, but I'm sure you don't mean it that way .

Also, may I keep my Bible as long as I don't snag a husband to teach me? 'Cuz I think I can handle that trade (especially if he was going to tell me I can't sing in church!)

No, not being hurtful. Just saying what Paul said in his Epistle. All who know me, know I do not hold with the concept of women not having authority in the church. Lots of folks teach women not having authority while ignoring everything else Paul wrote about women. I believe if they are going to teach one of his writings, they have to teach all of his writings,

 

[Snackersmom]

Alrighty, perhaps I misunderstood your point? It sounded like you were saying that Paul was saying that women shouldn't be allowed to own Bibles or sing and fellowship in church.

But those things don't really imply authority or disruption, so I'm not sure why anyone would think Paul was against them......perhaps I have missed your point entirely? Ya gotta help me out here, lol. 😆

 

[Nehemiah6]

In our church pastor gives us a chance to ask questions at the end of his sermon. I want to give you just a few of the questions and answers

Your pastor is simply misleading you. All his answers are incorrect and he has actually misrepresented what is in Scripture. So my advice to you is to study the Holy Bible for yourself and arrive at a proper understanding through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It would take too much time and effort to show his errors point by point, and there would be no point in that either.

 

[Nehemiah6]

All who know me, know I do not hold with the concept of women not having authority in the church.

And since that directly rejects what is stated in Scripture, you are already on shaky ground.

But I suffer [allow] not a woman to teach, nor to usurp* [unlawfully take] authority** over the man, but to be in silence. (1 Tim 2:12)
*Usurp = "take (a position of power or importance) illegally or by force."
**Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 831: αὐθεντέω (authenteo)
... to govern one, exercise dominion over one: τινς, 1 Timothy 2:12. [Thayer actually connects his explanation to 1 Timothy 2:12]

That Scripture is the word of God, not man. And Paul gives the biblical reason why women may not unlawfully or illegally exercise dominion over men. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 4 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1. Adam had priority over Eve in the order of creation. And as we know Adam was also given authority over Eve, not vice versa.
2. Adam was not deceived by Satan, but the woman Eve was first deceived and sinned -- thus "in the transgression". Then Adam went along with Eve.

So to give women authority over men and women in the local church is an act of DIRECT DISOBEDIENCE to God. Since Christian wives are commanded to be in subjection to their own husbands, this is consistent with that commandment. And all the other English translations correspond to the KJB. Some say "have dominion" while some say "exercise authority". Consequently, the Bible says that only men may assume the office of pastor/elder/bishop, and that gives them authority over the local church under Christ. All the apostles were men and all the elders of Israel were also men.

 

[Is2C]

And since that directly rejects what is stated in Scripture, you are already on shaky ground.

But I suffer [allow] not a woman to teach, nor to usurp* [unlawfully take] authority** over the man, but to be in silence. (1 Tim 2:12)
*Usurp = "take (a position of power or importance) illegally or by force."
**Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 831: αὐθεντέω (authenteo)
... to govern one, exercise dominion over one: τινς, 1 Timothy 2:12. [Thayer actually connects his explanation to 1 Timothy 2:12]

That Scripture is the word of God, not man. And Paul gives the biblical reason why women may not unlawfully or illegally exercise dominion over men. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 4 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1. Adam had priority over Eve in the order of creation. And as we know Adam was also given authority over Eve, not vice versa.
2. Adam was not deceived by Satan, but the woman Eve was first deceived and sinned -- thus "in the transgression". Then Adam went along with Eve.

So to give women authority over men and women in the local church is an act of DIRECT DISOBEDIENCE to God. Since Christian wives are commanded to be in subjection to their own husbands, this is consistent with that commandment. And all the other English translations correspond to the KJB. Some say "have dominion" while some say "exercise authority". Consequently, the Bible says that only men may assume the office of pastor/elder/bishop, and that gives them authority over the local church under Christ. All the apostles were men and all the elders of Israel were also men.

****** Kenneth is correct on all accounts!! NO ONE should chatter in church! when at the time 1 stood up and read the scrolls; No Man, No woman, No child. It is disruptive and an insult to the one reading and preaching and an insult to GOD. Be the preacher being Woman or man. Throughout the WORD of GOD when no man stood up GOD chose a women who seem to have more of a back bone then men.
Exo 15:20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.
Moses sister Miriam was prophetess.

Act 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.
Phillip had 4 virgin daughters that never knew a man who were also teachers of the gospel traveling with Phillip through Caesarea in which Judah never conquered, but Phillip and his daughters did through the HS.

Jdg 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
When no man stood up to defend Israel GOD chose Deborah who led them into victory, she was a Judge and preacher.

2Ch 34:22 And Hilkiah, and they that the king had appointed, went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvath, the son of Hasrah, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college and they spake to her to that effect.
A woman way back than who was a prophetess at a college (leader), they sought her advice over all others.
Zethaniah and Jeremiah, Zedakiah all was around but they went to her to enquire of the Word.

Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

There is more but anyone who denies a true teacher of the doctrine of CHRIST (male or female) does not do the will of CHRIST. SONS AND DAUGHTERS; will spread the truth in these end times. men since this age began have held women back, caused many women to not stand up because of not knowing the will of GOD. GOD choosing whom so ever HE will to preach truth.

 

[Is2C]

****** Kenneth is correct on all accounts!! NO ONE should chatter in church! when at the time 1 stood up and read the scrolls; No Man, No woman, No child. It is disruptive and an insult to the one reading and preaching and an insult to GOD. Be the preacher being Woman or man. Throughout the WORD of GOD when no man stood up GOD chose a women who seem to have more of a back bone then men.
Exo 15:20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.
Moses sister Miriam was prophetess.

Act 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.
Phillip had 4 virgin daughters that never knew a man who were also teachers of the gospel traveling with Phillip through Caesarea in which Judah never conquered, but Phillip and his daughters did through the HS.

Jdg 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
When no man stood up to defend Israel GOD chose Deborah who led them into victory, she was a Judge and preacher.

2Ch 34:22 And Hilkiah, and they that the king had appointed, went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvath, the son of Hasrah, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college and they spake to her to that effect.
A woman way back than who was a prophetess at a college (leader), they sought her advice over all others.
Zethaniah and Jeremiah, Zedakiah all was around but they went to her to enquire of the Word.

Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

There is more but anyone who denies a true teacher of the doctrine of CHRIST (male or female) does not do the will of CHRIST. SONS AND DAUGHTERS; will spread the truth in these end times. men since this age began have held women back, caused many women to not stand up because of not knowing the will of GOD. GOD choosing whom so ever HE will to preach truth.

I could go on but even Paul called on Priscilla more than her husband who ran a church at a time of 'man ruled' and women were supposed to be silent.

 

[p_rehbein]

Alrighty, perhaps I misunderstood your point? It sounded like you were saying that Paul was saying that women shouldn't be allowed to own Bibles or sing and fellowship in church.

But those things don't really imply authority or disruption, so I'm not sure why anyone would think Paul was against them......perhaps I have missed your point entirely? Ya gotta help me out here, lol. 😆

Yes, and no. Paul said if a woman wanted to learn "anything" she was to ask her husband at home. To me, this states that she is not to read Scripture, for that would be learning from Scripture, right? I do not agree with this idea, and, possibly, he said this because the women of Corinth were not educated in the languages Scripture was written in? He also talked about how they should and should not dress, and wear their hair, and other stuff, One has to delve into Paul's Epistles to see just how many restrictions he placed on the women of Corinth and other cities/churches. Even to the point of saying their salvation would come from having children, and that is surely weird, because Jesus said "anyone" who believed in Him would receive salvation.

Anyway, my point was that Paul taught strict lessons concerning women, and IF we are to teach ONE of them, we must teach ALL of them, right?

God bless, and read your Bible every day......as long as it's the King James!

 

[Nehemiah6]

Kenneth is correct on all accounts!! NO ONE should chatter in church!

HAHAHAHAH The word "chatter" is not even found in Scripture in this context! So you are already off on the wrong foot.

According to the context, there was no chattering in the churches. Even the NASB does not translate that Greek word laleo as "chatter".
NASB Translation
made (1), proclaiming (1), said (6), say (5), saying (7), says (2), speak (95), speak forth (1), speaking (54), speaks (25), spoke (44), spoken (38), stating (1), talked (1), talking (5), tell (1), telling (1), things spoken (2), told (7), uttered (1), whispered* (1)

The issue was "speaking". Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak*; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. (1 Cor 14:34)
*Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2980: λαλέω
2. to speak, i. e. to use the tongue or the faculty of speech; to utter articulate sounds: absolutely 1 Corinthians 14:11.

In fact that would be quite an insulting assumption regarding the churches and the women at that time. The issues were quite different. Women were attempting to speak in tongues publicly, and Paul made it clear that that was unacceptable to God. Women were to keep silent in church meetings and also be in submission ("under obedience") to their own husbands. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. (1 Cor 14:35) That is a very strong statement. "It is a shame" because the women shame both themselves and the whole church!

Then women were attempting to teach and usurp authority in the churches, and that too was unacceptable to God. And Paul makes this quite clear in 1 Timothy 2. So anyone trying to promote disobedience to these Scriptures is promoting rebellion. And the Bible says that rebellion is "as the sin of witchcraft" (1 Sam 15:23).

Then you have taken several passages OUT OF CONTEXT to prove your point. Not a single one of those passages relates to New Testament church gatherings or meetings for worship.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I could go on but even Paul called on Priscilla more than her husband who ran a church at a time of 'man ruled' and women were supposed to be silent.

Another example of taking Scriptures out of context. You are to be "commended" for a total disregard of context. Just like that false pastor.

Aquila and his wife Priscilla were tent makers, which was also the occupation of Paul. So he "abode" with them. Nowhere in Scripture will you find that Aquila "ran a church" or was an elder in a church. And nowhere in Scripture will you find Priscilla speaking unlawfully in a church meeting. Both of them PRIVATELY helped Paul to understand Christian truth, but that was it. And he[Paul] began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly (Acts 18:26). Paul did not call on Priscilla more than her husband,

I will not waste any more time on Is2C's misleading posts, which are simply sowing spiritual confusion. But he will be held accountable.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No, not being hurtful. Just saying what Paul said in his Epistle. All who know me, know I do not hold with the concept of women not having authority in the church. Lots of folks teach women not having authority while ignoring everything else Paul wrote about women. I believe if they are going to teach one of his writings, they have to teach all of his writings,

Is there any point of our spiritual maturity we should begin to look at all other Christian’s like this do you think ?

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And what if the woman is one of the prophets he’s called and filled with his spirit according to his Will foretold beforhand ?

“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; but with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:8-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its definitely written there but wow is that contrary to everything he taught elsewhere that one’s always been a riddle to me how it fits with the entirety of the New Testament

It leaves alot of in answered questions for me honestly I’ve never been able to grasp it not denying what it says but wow it’s hard to grasp that given everything else he taught throughout my only thought is that he says “ I do not permit this” and at times he says

“ I’m saying this , not the lord” but that’s not what it says there so it’s a conundrum for me to be honest that section of scripture it’s almost like paul is saying The woman is still under rhe curse in Eden but that can’t be what he’s saying that’s actually when eve was made subject to Adam when they sinned he did the same thing also the argument doesn’t make sense to me but that’s my issue not the words

 

[Nehemiah6]

Its definitely written there but wow is that contrary to everything he taught elsewhere that one’s always been a riddle to me how it fits with the entirety of the New Testament

Actually it fits perfectly with the whole New Testament (which is supported by the OT). There are two aspects to the issue of Christian men vs women: (1) their position in Christ and *(2) their respective roles in the home and in the (local) church.

Paul made it crystal clear that within the Body of Christ there are no distinctions of any kind. This pertains to the spiritual standing and position of every believer. All are children of God by faith in Christ.

However, within the home and within the church, men and women have distinct (but complementary) roles. Christian women are to be in subjection to their own husbands , as Sarah was in subjection to Abraham. And Christian women are to keep silent in church meetings, and not attempt to teach the church, or usurp authority over the church. This is because just as God the Father is "Head" (or authority over) Christ, the Christian man is
"head" (or authority over) his wife (and Adam was in authority over Eve).

Therefore women would be in violation of this principle is they attempted to usurp authority. See 1 Corinthians 11, where Christian women are commanded to wear head coverings as a symbol of their husbands' authority over them (which also translates into Christ's authority over them) and over the local church. Christ is Head over the Church (His Body and Bride) and He says that Christian men must reflect His headship by keeping their heads uncovered during worship.

 

[Snackersmom]

Yes, and no. Paul said if a woman wanted to learn "anything" she was to ask her husband at home. To me, this states that she is not to read Scripture, for that would be learning from Scripture, right? I do not agree with this idea, and, possibly, he said this because the women of Corinth were not educated in the languages Scripture was written in? He also talked about how they should and should not dress, and wear their hair, and other stuff, One has to delve into Paul's Epistles to see just how many restrictions he placed on the women of Corinth and other cities/churches. Even to the point of saying their salvation would come from having children, and that is surely weird, because Jesus said "anyone" who believed in Him would receive salvation.

Anyway, my point was that Paul taught strict lessons concerning women, and IF we are to teach ONE of them, we must teach ALL of them, right?

God bless, and read your Bible every day......as long as it's the King James!

I think I get what you're saying, though I still don't see how it ties to singing and fellowshipping, as neither would be disruptive for women to participate in (provided it is at the proper time and not just randomly bursting into song or fellowship during the teaching).

Regarding women reading/owning the scriptures, with Corinth being a Greek city and scrolls of any kind being incredibly rare and expensive, I doubt that many people (male or female) would have a copy of the OT back home to reference, and the NT was still being written. But it does sound like Priscilla had a pretty good handle on what the scriptures had to say, maybe she just had an incredibly good memory of what she was taught but I wouldn't be surprised if she was able to look things up herself.

Anyways, God bless to you too! I like KJV but was lead to switch to NKJV a few years ago and I love it.......so you will pry it from my COLD, DEAD HANDS!!!!!!!

 

[Kenneth]

IF you are going to discern Scripture, you need to do so by keeping Scripture in the proper context IMO.

I Corinthians, Chapter 14:

34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Scripture is pretty clear. Paul believes women should keep silent in the churches. Now, knowing that he was dealing with people (men and women) who were just leaving their Pagan ritual services (House of 1,000 Prostitutes) and learning about Christianity, I can see why he would say something like this. I would think the women, who had been practicing prostitution, did not have a great understanding of Scripture, or the Gospel of Jesus. Thus, they would be a distraction. Verse 35 tends to reveal this since Paul says "if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home:"

IMO, this is clear women are not to speak in the churches. Speech would include audible praying, singing, fellowshipping, etc. As well, the let them ask their husbands would suggest they were not to own or read Scripture. Let their husbands teach them.

(my thoughts)

Are you being serious or are you trying to make a joke? There are many places in the Bible that teach us about women who have been very active in the church, and in the government. Here are some examples: acts 21 verse 8. and the next day we that were of Paul's company departed and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist which was 1 of the 7; and Abode with him. Verse 9. And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. Let's go to the next book Romans chapter 16: verse 1. I command unto you Phoebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: verse 2. That you receive her and the Lord, as becometh Saints, and that ye assist her in whatever business she hath need of you: for she has been a successor of many, and of myself also.
This next couple is going to throw a monkey wrench into your thinking. greet Priscilla and Aquila helpers in Jesus Christ; verse 4. Who have for my life laid down their own necks: under whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles. Now the thing about Priscilla and Aquila is this, Priscilla is the wife of Aquila but Paul gives her preference by using her name first and then her husband's name. I forgot one an Acts16 verse 13. and on the Sabbath we went out of the city by the Riverside where prayer was wont to be made; and sat down and spake unto the women which resided hither. 14. And a certain woman named Lydia a seller of purple, of the city Thyatira, which worshiped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened that she attended unto the things which Paul spoke of verse 15. And when she was baptized, and her household, she be sought us, saying, " if ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and abide there." Here again another woman leading her household to the Lord and Paul saw fit to stay with her and her household. Galatians chapter 3 verses 26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ, 28.There is neither Jew nor Greek, neither Bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all 1 in Christ Jesus. Okay let's go to the Old Testament and see what it has to say about women. We're going to pick this up in judges chapter 4 starting with verse 4. And Deborah, a prophetess the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at the time. 5. And she dwelled under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramoth and Bethel in the Mount of Ephraim: and the children of Israel came to her for judgment. The next few verses go on to tell you that Israel was getting ready to go to war and she called the commander Barack and gave him orders from God to go to war. Verse 8. And Barack said under her, " if that will go with me, then I will go: but if that will not go with me, then I will not go." Verse 9. And she said, " I will surely go with the: not withstanding the journey that thou takeest shall not be for thine honor; for the Lord shall Sisera into your hand for a woman." and Deborah arose and went with Barack to Kindred. In second Chronicles chapter 34 we find Josiah he was 8 years old when he began to reign and he reigned in Jerusalem 31 years. He did what was right in the side of the Lord. he started to purge the land of all of their Groves, idols, and other things of false worship. In verse 20 He commands some of its servants and a scribe named Shapham saying to them. verse 21. "Go inquire of the Lord for me, and for them that are left in Israel and in Judah, concerning the words of the book that is found: for great is the Wrath of the Lord that is poured out upon us, because our fathers have not kept the word of the Lord to do after all that is written in this book." Verse 22. And, Hikiah and they that the king had appointed, went to Huldah, the prophetess, and the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvath, the son of Hasrah, Keeper of the Wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college: (and they spoke to her to that effect.) this college that she dwelled at in Jerusalem was the College of the prophets she was not only a prophet herself but a teacher thereof. so as you can see women have played a part in the Old Testament and in the New Testament God will use whom ever he wants. Women are not to be treated as second class citizens. As for chattering in church not only should women keep silent, but men and children should also be silent. It is very disrespectful to our Father, to the person bringing forth the word, and everybody else in church that is distracted from being able to hear and understand what is being taught.

















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[FollowerofShiloh]

Alrighty, perhaps I misunderstood your point? It sounded like you were saying that Paul was saying that women shouldn't be allowed to own Bibles or sing and fellowship in church.

But those things don't really imply authority or disruption, so I'm not sure why anyone would think Paul was against them......perhaps I have missed your point entirely? Ya gotta help me out here, lol. 😆

Women in those days were considered property and most likely could not read or write. A lot of these scriptures are conducive to when they were written and how the structure in civilization between men and women were. Today, many women are highly more educated than men and why men work subordinate jobs. I would venture to say if Paul was alive today these words would not have been written. But look at Paul. He basically was a "student of the Law, a Pharisee." Only men were allowed to do that. But read the 4 Gospels. Look what Jesus had the women do. Jesus was changing this phenom. It just took centuries before it kicked in.

Now, I am not for the movement of women's lib and all that details. But I am for equality of humans, which are both men and women. Jesus was even for equality of humans. In Heaven, there is neither male nor female. "We" are "all" "one in Christ."

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Actually it fits perfectly with the whole New Testament (which is supported by the OT). There are two aspects to the issue of Christian men vs women: (1) their position in Christ and *(2) their respective roles in the home and in the (local) church.

Paul made it crystal clear that within the Body of Christ there are no distinctions of any kind. This pertains to the spiritual standing and position of every believer. All are children of God by faith in Christ.

However, within the home and within the church, men and women have distinct (but complementary) roles. Christian women are to be in subjection to their own husbands , as Sarah was in subjection to Abraham. And Christian women are to keep silent in church meetings, and not attempt to teach the church, or usurp authority over the church. This is because just as God the Father is "Head" (or authority over) Christ, the Christian man is
"head" (or authority over) his wife (and Adam was in authority over Eve).

Therefore women would be in violation of this principle is they attempted to usurp authority. See 1 Corinthians 11, where Christian women are commanded to wear head coverings as a symbol of their husbands' authority over them (which also translates into Christ's authority over them) and over the local church. Christ is Head over the Church (His Body and Bride) and He says that Christian men must reflect His headship by keeping their heads uncovered during worship.

I appreciate the words there brother a lot of good thinking there

do you see this part ?

the Christian man is
"head" (or authority over) his wife (and Adam was in authority over Eve).”

Thats part of the curse of sin and death

this is before they sinned

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is the curse because they transgressed the commandment

“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

pauls argument there is that women are still under that curse that’s why woman is subject to man

“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

( now here’s his reasoning )For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

( his conclusion ) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what doesn’t make sense to me is Paul’s reasoning that the woman is still under the cirse of transgression after her sins have been remitted ….women became subject to man because of sin , sin is remitted in Christ and Paul says many times Christ removed the curse of transgression

It doesn’t make sense to me is all I’m saying I’m not saying it’s wrong I’m just saying it doesn’t make sense when you read Paul’s writings how we’re

saved by grace not works look what he just said about women’s because of eves transgression ? Huh ?

the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

( his conclusion ) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”

God is holding women in the church under eves curse still ? Doesn’t make sense to me because the doctrine is about remission of sins and sins curse of death

I’m not sure it makes sense but like I was saying before that’s just my own issue or shortcoming or lack of understanding it , not an issue with what’s written