Could Trump do anything to make you stop supporting him?

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Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
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Jul 18, 2017
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#4,501
Susanna said:
Are you for real? Even though you are totally swept off the floor by Trump he was sentenced.
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"He was sentenced" by a KANGAROO COURT. But that does not bother you as long as Trump is being victimized. This crazy woman had nothing on him, just like that evil woman Letitia James had nothing on him. Just garbage and more garbage. I hope Trump takes these bogus ruling to the Supreme Court and they strike them down.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
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Jul 18, 2017
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#4,503
cv5 said:
Trumps 8th amendment rights are being violated over and over again.
Click to expand...
Not only that, but the whole case is BOGUS AND OUTRAGEOUS.

February 22, 2024
New York’s Trump Fraud Findings Refute Judge’s Conclusions
By Jay Tucker

Last week, a New York court issued judgments against Donald J. Trump and his sons, asserting violation of state anti-fraud law in connection with several real estate mortgage loans. The judgments, which aggregate $355 million and may escalate to $454 Million or more, shocked Republicans and Democrats alike and stunned the national real estate community. It was immediately apparent that something was wildly wrong, since the Trump transactions were nothing unusual or remarkable for the real estate industry.

Essential Requirements for Claims of Fraud
The case primarily involves applications for mortgage loans submitted by Trump entities to major federal banks. The state of New York claims that Trump, in connection with such loans, committed repeated fraudulent and illegal acts. The judge acknowledges that common law fraud (also known as “misrepresentation”) requires a finding of five elements: (1) A material statement of fact (not opinion), (2) falsity, (3) knowledge of the falsity, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim, and (5) damages. Although the judge apparently concludes that all of the elements have been proven, it is quite obvious that none, let alone all, of the required elements of fraud and misrepresentation was proven.
  1. Material Statement of Fact: Most of the 92-page document relates to alleged false statements in so-called Statements of Financial Condition (SFCs), which were schedules of values allocated to various Trump properties. Values, by their nature, are opinions (not facts) and therefore cannot serve as a basis for a claim of fraud.
  2. Falsity: The Statements of Financial Condition were merely statements of opinion submitted by the proposed borrowers and guarantor(s) and, thus, were neither true nor false.
  3. Knowledge of the Falsity: The proposed borrowers knew that the SFCs were schedules of opinions as to values, were subject to debate, and were neither true nor false.
  4. Justifiable Reliance by the Alleged Victim: The word justifiable appears only twice, only on page 2 of the document, and only with respect to a listing of the required elements of fraud and misrepresentation. The judge reports that some of the bankers indicated that they had relied on statements in the SFCs (i.e., as to valuations) in connection with making a loan, but the judge’s findings do not provide any grounds for determining whether or not any such reliance was justified. Valid justifiable reliance does not even appear to be possible:
  5. The Office of the Controller of the Currency (OCC) has promulgated laws and regulations prohibiting federally chartered banks from making large commercial mortgage loans without first securing an appraisal by an independent and state-licensed and/or state-certified appraiser, which appraisal must comply with additional applicable requirements. Reliance upon other valuations that deviate from the required appraisals is clearly not justified.
  6. Valuations by the borrower or appraisers engaged by the borrower are subject to bias and conflicts of interest. Reliance on such tainted valuations is unwarranted and unwise and unjustified.
  7. The judge’s findings contain evidence that valuations contained in the SFCs submitted by Trump entities were summarily reduced 50% by one of the lenders, which lender also reduced valuations submitted by similar borrowers in similar situations in similar amounts. Such policies evidence that bankers recognize and acknowledge that they are not justified in relying on borrower valuations and, in fact, do not and will not so rely.
  8. Damages: The findings confirm that all of the lenders suffered no loss or damage and apparently were paid in full and in a timely manner. Thus, yet another essential element for recovery for common law fraud and misrepresentation did not exist. As the Wall Street Journal concluded (2/17-18/2024), “there was no real financial victim.”
Notwithstanding that New York, for the above reasons, has no valid claim on behalf of itself or any of the lenders for common law fraud and misrepresentation, New York is claiming under a state statute that some immaterial mistakes or misrepresentations justify recovery, not for the banks, but for the benefit of the state of New York, of all gains or profits that the borrower may have made on each project where claimed illegality may have occurred. All of this results, notwithstanding that the lenders suffered no financial or other loss, were not fraudulently induced to do anything, and were aware and comfortable with the notion that the banks are totally responsible for performing their own due diligence, securing of their own appraisals, and developing their own valuations.

In the Trump case, that approach has led to a claim that New York is entitled to recover for its own account (not for the account of any lender) the sum of at least $355 million, apparently just to teach Trump and others a lesson. The findings reveal no evidence of the amount or extent to which any bank would have raised its interest rate if the guarantor’s (Trump’s) net worth valuation had potentially been reduced by various amounts. New York’s entitlement to such recovery and the amounts thereof will assuredly be challenged on appeal for the above reasons and for constitutional, equitable, and other reasons.

Pre-emption
A remedy for the disaster being thrust upon normal nationwide borrower/lender policies and procedures may be for Trump and one or more of the national banks to seek a judicial or OCC determination that New York is prevented and pre-empted by federal law from utilizing its state law for the purposes and in the manner utilized in the Trump case or in any other specific manner that “prevents or significantly interferes with” a national bank’s exercise of its powers in connection with the Trump cases. If any lie can put a borrower out of business, even if there is no reliance on it, the entire nature of loan transactions will need wholesale realignment, at great expense to both borrower and lender.

Consequences
Other extremely damaging consequences will befall banks and other businesses alike.
The Trump judgment has caused consternation in the business community, especially in the real estate sector, the mortgage sector, and other business lending sectors. In cases where there may be claimed fraud or misrepresentation (material or otherwise), borrowers are now at great risk that New York will come after them for all their profits and gains on a project, notwithstanding that no one has suffered financial loss or damage. The Trump case provides excuse and incentive and warning for borrowers, lenders, and other businesses to avoid subjecting themselves to similar outrageous claims. That may, indeed, necessitate removing their businesses and all negotiations, contracts, meetings, and property from the jurisdiction of the state of New York.

Read more: https://www.americanthinker.com/art..._refute_judges_conclusions.html#ixzz8SXBY5T2Y
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#4,504
Dec 9, 2011
14,127
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#4,504
cv5 said:
BTW........you look like a good candidate for conscription.
Maybe it's time you put Putin out of his misery and enlist to fight those rotten russkis?

Don't worry Nikki Haley will be cheering you from the sidelines, cozy warm and safe.
Click to expand...
That probably won’t be necessary If Trump becomes Your president because he will give Putin what he wants without a fight and I’m sure you approve.
 
PennEd

PennEd

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Apr 22, 2013
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It's what it's always been for those who support this kind of fascism.

Ignorance and evil. And it's getting harder and harder to think it's mostly ignorance.

 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
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Nov 20, 2018
23,004
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#4,507
Nehemiah6 said:
Not only that, but the whole case is BOGUS AND OUTRAGEOUS.

February 22, 2024
New York’s Trump Fraud Findings Refute Judge’s Conclusions
By Jay Tucker

Last week, a New York court issued judgments against Donald J. Trump and his sons, asserting violation of state anti-fraud law in connection with several real estate mortgage loans. The judgments, which aggregate $355 million and may escalate to $454 Million or more, shocked Republicans and Democrats alike and stunned the national real estate community. It was immediately apparent that something was wildly wrong, since the Trump transactions were nothing unusual or remarkable for the real estate industry.

Essential Requirements for Claims of Fraud
The case primarily involves applications for mortgage loans submitted by Trump entities to major federal banks. The state of New York claims that Trump, in connection with such loans, committed repeated fraudulent and illegal acts. The judge acknowledges that common law fraud (also known as “misrepresentation”) requires a finding of five elements: (1) A material statement of fact (not opinion), (2) falsity, (3) knowledge of the falsity, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim, and (5) damages. Although the judge apparently concludes that all of the elements have been proven, it is quite obvious that none, let alone all, of the required elements of fraud and misrepresentation was proven.
  1. Material Statement of Fact: Most of the 92-page document relates to alleged false statements in so-called Statements of Financial Condition (SFCs), which were schedules of values allocated to various Trump properties. Values, by their nature, are opinions (not facts) and therefore cannot serve as a basis for a claim of fraud.
  2. Falsity: The Statements of Financial Condition were merely statements of opinion submitted by the proposed borrowers and guarantor(s) and, thus, were neither true nor false.
  3. Knowledge of the Falsity: The proposed borrowers knew that the SFCs were schedules of opinions as to values, were subject to debate, and were neither true nor false.
  4. Justifiable Reliance by the Alleged Victim: The word justifiable appears only twice, only on page 2 of the document, and only with respect to a listing of the required elements of fraud and misrepresentation. The judge reports that some of the bankers indicated that they had relied on statements in the SFCs (i.e., as to valuations) in connection with making a loan, but the judge’s findings do not provide any grounds for determining whether or not any such reliance was justified. Valid justifiable reliance does not even appear to be possible:
  5. The Office of the Controller of the Currency (OCC) has promulgated laws and regulations prohibiting federally chartered banks from making large commercial mortgage loans without first securing an appraisal by an independent and state-licensed and/or state-certified appraiser, which appraisal must comply with additional applicable requirements. Reliance upon other valuations that deviate from the required appraisals is clearly not justified.
  6. Valuations by the borrower or appraisers engaged by the borrower are subject to bias and conflicts of interest. Reliance on such tainted valuations is unwarranted and unwise and unjustified.
  7. The judge’s findings contain evidence that valuations contained in the SFCs submitted by Trump entities were summarily reduced 50% by one of the lenders, which lender also reduced valuations submitted by similar borrowers in similar situations in similar amounts. Such policies evidence that bankers recognize and acknowledge that they are not justified in relying on borrower valuations and, in fact, do not and will not so rely.
  8. Damages: The findings confirm that all of the lenders suffered no loss or damage and apparently were paid in full and in a timely manner. Thus, yet another essential element for recovery for common law fraud and misrepresentation did not exist. As the Wall Street Journal concluded (2/17-18/2024), “there was no real financial victim.”
Notwithstanding that New York, for the above reasons, has no valid claim on behalf of itself or any of the lenders for common law fraud and misrepresentation, New York is claiming under a state statute that some immaterial mistakes or misrepresentations justify recovery, not for the banks, but for the benefit of the state of New York, of all gains or profits that the borrower may have made on each project where claimed illegality may have occurred. All of this results, notwithstanding that the lenders suffered no financial or other loss, were not fraudulently induced to do anything, and were aware and comfortable with the notion that the banks are totally responsible for performing their own due diligence, securing of their own appraisals, and developing their own valuations.

In the Trump case, that approach has led to a claim that New York is entitled to recover for its own account (not for the account of any lender) the sum of at least $355 million, apparently just to teach Trump and others a lesson. The findings reveal no evidence of the amount or extent to which any bank would have raised its interest rate if the guarantor’s (Trump’s) net worth valuation had potentially been reduced by various amounts. New York’s entitlement to such recovery and the amounts thereof will assuredly be challenged on appeal for the above reasons and for constitutional, equitable, and other reasons.

Pre-emption
A remedy for the disaster being thrust upon normal nationwide borrower/lender policies and procedures may be for Trump and one or more of the national banks to seek a judicial or OCC determination that New York is prevented and pre-empted by federal law from utilizing its state law for the purposes and in the manner utilized in the Trump case or in any other specific manner that “prevents or significantly interferes with” a national bank’s exercise of its powers in connection with the Trump cases. If any lie can put a borrower out of business, even if there is no reliance on it, the entire nature of loan transactions will need wholesale realignment, at great expense to both borrower and lender.

Consequences
Other extremely damaging consequences will befall banks and other businesses alike.
The Trump judgment has caused consternation in the business community, especially in the real estate sector, the mortgage sector, and other business lending sectors. In cases where there may be claimed fraud or misrepresentation (material or otherwise), borrowers are now at great risk that New York will come after them for all their profits and gains on a project, notwithstanding that no one has suffered financial loss or damage. The Trump case provides excuse and incentive and warning for borrowers, lenders, and other businesses to avoid subjecting themselves to similar outrageous claims. That may, indeed, necessitate removing their businesses and all negotiations, contracts, meetings, and property from the jurisdiction of the state of New York.

Read more: https://www.americanthinker.com/art..._refute_judges_conclusions.html#ixzz8SXBY5T2Y
Click to expand...
Agree. The whole escapade was an judicial farce. And everybody knows it.

I am disappointed that the trucker boycott did not materialize.
 
Susanna

Susanna

Well-known member
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Apr 14, 2023
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#4,509
Nehemiah6 said:
"He was sentenced" by a KANGAROO COURT. But that does not bother you as long as Trump is being victimized. This crazy woman had nothing on him, just like that evil woman Letitia James had nothing on him. Just garbage and more garbage. I hope Trump takes these bogus ruling to the Supreme Court and they strike them down.
Click to expand...
Judging from your choice of words it seems like you don’t have anything valid for your claims about Trump being victimized by a kangaroo court. Better luck next time.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
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Dec 9, 2011
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Susanna said:
Judging from your choice of words it seems like you don’t have anything valid for your claims about Trump being victimized by a kangaroo court. Better luck next time.
Click to expand...
Reminds me of Trump trying to tell people that the election was stolen and the court Threw his case out for Lack of evidence.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

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Apr 21, 2021
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Trump going to be tried for his role in the fake elector plot which tried to overturn the 2020 election? I'm sure this too is probably just another scheme to victimize the Donald. I mean he could never be in the wrong, right?
 
ZNP

ZNP

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Sep 14, 2020
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seed_time_harvest said:
careful baiting him.Be wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove.
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I'm not baiting him. There is no Biblical basis to assume that you are a Christian speaking in good conscience simply because you make the claim that you are. The New Testament tells us to test the spirits and gives us ways in which we can know who the false ones are. Never once does it say to give them the benefit of the doubt if they claim they are true.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

The first thing people should realize is whether or not you are gathering fruit from this one. If their posts do not add anything to you then that is how you will know them. Thorns were a result of sin and the curse. So if you detect the sin and curse in their posts that would be a second tip off. Thistles are like an empty boast. Many of these false ones boast great things but it is an empty boast like a waterless cloud.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#4,515
Dec 9, 2011
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#4,515
ZNP said:
I'm not baiting him. There is no Biblical basis to assume that you are a Christian speaking in good conscience simply because you make the claim that you are.
Click to expand...
Well,If he gets too personal and gets reported because of a question that you asked,how Is that not baiting him?

By the way,the same thing goes for you.
 
PennEd

PennEd

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Apr 22, 2013
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ResidentAlien said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Trump going to be tried for his role in the fake elector plot which tried to overturn the 2020 election? I'm sure this too is probably just another scheme to victimize the Donald. I mean he could never be in the wrong, right?
Click to expand...
Here is a collection of DEMOCRAT election deniers that Trump won in 2016. They even had hundreds of thousands of demon led, mostly women, wearing "vagina hats" assemble at the Capitol, and even threaten to blow up the White house. They DIDN'T have FBI and CIA operatives fomenting and facilitating entry into the capitol. NONE of themm were ever charged with anything.

Yet guys like you continue to carry the water for demons. WATCH the Video.

https://rumble.com/v1njw48-great-compilation-democrats-denying-election-results.html
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#4,517
Sep 14, 2020
36,666
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seed_time_harvest said:
Well,If he gets too personal and gets reported because of a question that you asked,how Is that not baiting him?

By the way,the same thing goes for you.
Click to expand...
BTW the same thing goes for all of us. If people are not gathering fruit from your posts or my posts then stop reading them and simply ignore the person the same way you would if you were looking for berries and came across thorns and thistles.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#4,518
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
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#4,518
ZNP said:
I'm not baiting him. There is no Biblical basis to assume that you are a Christian speaking in good conscience simply because you make the claim that you are. The New Testament tells us to test the spirits and gives us ways in which we can know who the false ones are. Never once does it say to give them the benefit of the doubt if they claim they are true.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

The first thing people should realize is whether or not you are gathering fruit from this one. If their posts do not add anything to you then that is how you will know them. Thorns were a result of sin and the curse. So if you detect the sin and curse in their posts that would be a second tip off. Thistles are like an empty boast. Many of these false ones boast great things but it is an empty boast like a waterless cloud.
Click to expand...
The thing is....truths of these matters are both obvious and known.
I figure if you lack this insight....well....you abide in darkness.

This post is in no way is an endorsement for Trump. At all.
But it is an endorsement of the truth and the rights of Americans to choose their president.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#4,519
Nov 20, 2018
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#4,519
PennEd said:
Here is a collection of DEMOCRAT election deniers that Trump won in 2016. They even had hundreds of thousands of demon led, mostly women, wearing "vagina hats" assemble at the Capitol, and even threaten to blow up the White house. They DIDN'T have FBI and CIA operatives fomenting and facilitating entry into the capitol. NONE of themm were ever charged with anything.

Yet guys like you continue to carry the water for demons. WATCH the Video.

https://rumble.com/v1njw48-great-compilation-democrats-denying-election-results.html
Click to expand...
Just another remarkable coincidence.
Along with Podesta being the big cheese.

1708698449941.png
 
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