the Sabbath

[Inquisitor]

Since its such an important topic I will add this.

It's not really unintentionally sin that gets overlooked, its unknowingly sin and there is a difference.

Acts 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,

Say for example, you do not have access to the bible and you covet someone's car and don't know its a sin, God winks at that.

This is what's God's law does- it tells us what sin is, so we don't depend on our own standard of righteousness, God has shown us His Psa 119:172

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
You can find the law for thou shalt not covet in the Ten Commandments- God's law written by God's own finger and why its under His mercy seat revealed in heaven where justice and mercy will come together some day soon.

Since we all have access to bibles God will hold us accountable for breaking His law as it is what we will be judged by. James 2:10-12 Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30

The law shows us our sins
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

And should point us to Jesus for the solution when we sin

Romans 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Once we repent- Jesus says go and sin no more. Through Him He can give us the power to overcome sin and be faithful to Him and His commandments.

You omitted the deeds of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-22).

A fundamental failure in your interpretation of the New Testament.

The law is weak on these matters, Spirit and the flesh.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

 

[Inquisitor]

Why not stop right here?

Do you suffer from that internal conflict?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You omitted the deeds of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-22).

A fundamental failure in your interpretation of the New Testament.

The law is weak on these matters, Spirit and the flesh.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Thats the result of being changed by Jesus, which does not delete God's definition of sin. Jesus talked about this very thing in Matthew 5:19-30

 

[Inquisitor]

Thats the result of being changed by Jesus, which does not delete God's definition of sin. Jesus talked about this very thing in Matthew 5:19-30

Yes it does.

The deeds of the flesh are manifold and you cannot effectively deal with all of them.

Especially if your only applying a ten commandment approach to dealing with the flesh.

I do not covet, therefore I must be a perfect, holy Christian?????

What about selfishness, gambling, drugs, gluttony, greed, add 100 more vices of the flesh.

The law, 'do not covet' your neighbors oxen, cannot tackle the elephant in the room.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Yes it does.

The deeds of the flesh are manifold and you cannot effectively deal with all of them.

Especially if your only applying a ten commandment approach to dealing with the flesh.

I do not covet, therefore I must be a perfect, holy Christian?????

What about selfishness, gambling, drugs, gluttony, greed, add 100 more vices of the flesh.

The law, do not covet, cannot tackle the elephant in the room.

Jesus explained this exact thing through the Ten Commandments. Mat 5:19-30

For example He related thou shalt not murder with anger. Lust with adultery. He applied this principle using two as an example from the Ten Commandments. When Jesus changes us He changes our thoughts and feelings from anger to compassion- how many fruits of the Spirits and commandments would be kept just by using these principles. If anger was removed from our heart thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept and there would be no rage or discord. No wonder why God's law is so perfect. Psa 19:7 He thought of everything.

 

[Inquisitor]

Jesus explained this exact thing through the Ten Commandments. Mat 5:19-30

For example He related thou shalt not murder with anger. Lust with adultery. He applied this principle using two as an example from the Ten Commandments. When Jesus changes us He changes our thoughts and feelings from anger to compassion- how many fruits of the Spirits and commandments would be kept just by using these principles. If anger was removed from our heart thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept and there would be no rage or discord. No wonder why God's law is so perfect. Psa 19:7 He thought of everything.

Correct, Jesus expanded the scope of the law.

This was the beginning of a deeper revelation, Paul greatly expanded that initial revelation by Jesus.

Paul identified the expanded law that Jesus spoke about and discovered the deeds of the flesh.

Then Paul listed in Galatians 5, those deeds of the flesh.

No one seriously would look at sin, trying to understand the deeds of the flesh through the keyhole of the law.

You need to switch from the law to the understanding that the Holy Spirit will provide.

 

[Inquisitor]

Jesus explained this exact thing through the Ten Commandments. Mat 5:19-30

For example He related thou shalt not murder with anger. Lust with adultery. He applied this principle using two as an example from the Ten Commandments. When Jesus changes us He changes our thoughts and feelings from anger to compassion- how many fruits of the Spirits and commandments would be kept just by using these principles. If anger was removed from our heart thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept and there would be no rage or discord. No wonder why God's law is so perfect. Psa 19:7 He thought of everything.

Murder is not just a result of anger.

Some people murder in war.

Some folk kill for extra income.

Others kill for financial gain. Revenge, jealousy, ambition, rivalry, unforgiveness, sport, etc.

The deeds of the flesh are legion, a heart not filled with the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Is a lethal, dangerous heart.

 

[rrcn]

C

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

If you're a Christian and you don't intentionally sin then it isn't of any concern.

We all intentionally sin because in some situations we are aware it is a sin going to be committed "before" we do it any ways.

 

[Inquisitor]

We all intentionally sin because in some situations we are aware it is a sin going to be committed "before" we do it any ways.

Hole in one there.

At least you have the honesty to admit it.

 

[TMS]

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

If you live by the Spirit, you don't break any of the 10 commandments.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So the secret to keeping the moral law is to let the holy Spirit live in you.

If you are born of the Spirit and dead to the flesh the 10 commandments will be a natural result.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

We will serve the law of God if we follow the Spirit and not follow the flesh.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Gal 5:16-18
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Not under the law because you don't transgress it.

 

[TMS]

What is Sin? The Bible says 1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
I can link every evil to a transgression of the 10 commandments. The real battle is the flesh vs Spirit.
Self vs God in us.

If we Define "not remembering the sabbath" as a sin, because God said it planly in the law, that makes sense. So is it a law that we should obey or not?

Jesus perfectly kept the law so that He could give us the gift of His righteousness.

If the sabbath is not a moral law that needs to be kept today because it has been removed, why did Jesus keep it holy?

If righteousness is defined by what Jesus did, sabbath keeping was part of the righteous standard. If God can change the moral law that defines righteousness, then Jesus died in vain.

Jesus died because the law could not be changed.

 

[TMS]

If I am in trouble with the law (sin) and stand before the jugde, there are 3 things that could happen.

I pay the penalty myself. Sin = death. This is Justice.

I have the penalty paided in full for me. Salvation. This is justice because the laws demands are meet.

This parable explains the justice.....
Mat 18:24-27
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
We are in debt and can't pay. And it would be just for us to die. Sin = death

26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

But God is able to forgiven us and be Just because Jesus paid the debt in full.

The 3rd thing that could happen is that the judge changes the laws so that my guilty charges no longer apply. By changing the law I am not guilty and don't need to pay and Jesus doesn't need to pay either. We know God didn't change the law because Jesus did die for my sin.

God is Just and the law has not been changed.

 

[Inquisitor]

Who has not sinned today?

1 John 3:5
You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.

 

[Inquisitor]

What is Sin? The Bible says 1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
I can link every evil to a transgression of the 10 commandments. The real battle is the flesh vs Spirit.
Self vs God in us.

If we Define "not remembering the sabbath" as a sin, because God said it planly in the law, that makes sense. So is it a law that we should obey or not?

Jesus perfectly kept the law so that He could give us the gift of His righteousness.

If the sabbath is not a moral law that needs to be kept today because it has been removed, why did Jesus keep it holy?

If righteousness is defined by what Jesus did, sabbath keeping was part of the righteous standard. If God can change the moral law that defines righteousness, then Jesus died in vain.

Jesus died because the law could not be changed.

Anything that is not of faith is sin.

Do you deny that anything that is not of faith is sin?

The good that you should be doing but your not doing, is also sin.

Do you deny that not doing the good you know you should be doing is sin?

Why do you only quote 1 John 3:4?

 

[Inquisitor]

Jesus explained this exact thing through the Ten Commandments. Mat 5:19-30

For example He related thou shalt not murder with anger. Lust with adultery. He applied this principle using two as an example from the Ten Commandments. When Jesus changes us He changes our thoughts and feelings from anger to compassion- how many fruits of the Spirits and commandments would be kept just by using these principles. If anger was removed from our heart thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept and there would be no rage or discord. No wonder why God's law is so perfect. Psa 19:7 He thought of everything.

So the love of money is idolatry?

Devotion to the world is idolatry?

Gambling is idolatry?

Drug abuse is idolatry?

Drunkenness is?

Not sure about drunkenness?

Abusing widows and orphans is obviously one of the ten but not sure which?

 

[Inquisitor]

What is Sin? The Bible says 1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
I can link every evil to a transgression of the 10 commandments. The real battle is the flesh vs Spirit.
Self vs God in us.

If we Define "not remembering the sabbath" as a sin, because God said it planly in the law, that makes sense. So is it a law that we should obey or not?

Jesus perfectly kept the law so that He could give us the gift of His righteousness.

If the sabbath is not a moral law that needs to be kept today because it has been removed, why did Jesus keep it holy?

If righteousness is defined by what Jesus did, sabbath keeping was part of the righteous standard. If God can change the moral law that defines righteousness, then Jesus died in vain.

Jesus died because the law could not be changed.

Your saying that transgression of the ten commandments is sin, is death.

Ezekiel 18:20
The one who sins is the one who will die.

Your saying that the law of sin and death is in full force.

But Jesus said something different to that.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Please explain how you can transgress the law, sin, and not die?

 

[rrcn]

So the love of money is idolatry?

Devotion to the world is idolatry?

Gambling is idolatry?

Drug abuse is idolatry?

Drunkenness is?

Not sure about drunkenness?

Abusing widows and orphans is obviously one of the ten but not sure which?

All of these things are works of the flesh.

[Gal 5:19-21 KJV] 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Here is a little more about drunkenness:

[Pro 23:29-35 KJV] 29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. 33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. 34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. 35 They have stricken me, [shalt thou say, and] I was not sick; they have beaten me, [and] I felt [it] not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

 

[Inquisitor]

This the same answer from google’s Gemini.

While Faith and Works are Significant Themes, the New Testament Remains Multifaceted
While faith and works undoubtedly constitute significant themes in the New Testament, positing them as a sole summary of this complex collection of texts proves insufficient. Here's why:

1. Inherent Complexity: The New Testament encompasses a diverse array of writings, including Gospels, epistles, and apocalyptic literature, each with distinct purposes and perspectives. Reducing such richness and complexity to a mere binary of 'faith and works' would be a significant oversimplification.
2. Central Theme Precedence: The central theme of the New Testament revolves around the life, teachings, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, understood as the culmination of God's redemptive plan for humanity. Faith and works, while crucial, play supporting roles in comprehending this central message.
3. Nuanced Interplay: The relationship between faith and works is not a straightforward equation. Various New Testament authors, such as Paul and James, approach this relationship with subtle distinctions in emphasis. Reconciling these interpretations is essential for a holistic understanding.

Therefore, while faith and works undeniably hold weight in the New Testament, a more comprehensive grasp necessitates acknowledging the broader thematic tapestry and intricate nature of the various writings within this sacred text.

I said, faith and love?

 

[Inquisitor]

All of these things are works of the flesh.

[Gal 5:19-21 KJV] 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Here is a little more about drunkenness:

[Pro 23:29-35 KJV] 29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. 33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. 34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. 35 They have stricken me, [shalt thou say, and] I was not sick; they have beaten me, [and] I felt [it] not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

Yes I agree.

[Gal 5:19-21 KJV] 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Notice that some of the commandments are also in that compilation. Adultery, idolatry, murder.

The deeds of the flesh are certainly not contained by the 10 words alone.

This precisely why Jesus converted the law into the realm of the inner heart (Matthew 5), the primary motivation. The sinful core of all of humanities sin.

Jesus said,

Matthew 5:21
You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not murder,’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be answerable to the court.’

Simple, literal law, the meaning is straightforward. Murder and you will be judged for it.

But Jesus then said,

Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be answerable to the court.

Notice the act of murder (the commandment) is not the subject now, the inner attitude of the heart is judged.

Obviously, you are guilty of murder without even transgressing the literal commandment against murder.

A very powerful correction for anyone who thinks obeying the ten commandments, achieves something.

Your dead in your sin before the attempt can be made to honor the law.