Predestination is misunderstood...

[Cameron143]

Boy... you got around that one quick!

At least you tried.

Nope! You have to do your own thinking.
Because it was obvious.

If you can not figure out something so simple?
It leaves me with little hope of trying to explain anything to you...

Must redeem the time. Not waste it.

.................

God is truly amazing. Even as you were sharing that I need not waste time, but redeem it,God showed me a way to do that.
Grace and peace.

 

[sawdust]

My contention has from the beginning been that nowhere in the Bible does claim to be fair. He does, however, claim to be just.
So, can you show me from scripture where God claims to be fair?
If you read the story of the landowner who at intervals during the day hired workers. At the end of the day, he paid them all the same wage. Was that fair or just?

I have already sated based on your understanding of the meaning of the word, I agree, God is not fair. The problem is your understanding of the word is incorrect and you refuse to be corrected on it.

So be it.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You are making non biblical claims while I am using scripture with proofs and Hebrew words with specific definitions. Unfortunately, you are the only one swinging off a tree while I am standing on a solid rock foundation.

where still no nearer, but that's ok to discussing the original suggestion

If it makes you feel better I'll give you some patience 😊

 

[Cameron143]

I have already sated based on your understanding of the meaning of the word, I agree, God is not fair. The problem is your understanding of the word is incorrect and you refuse to be corrected on it.

So be it.

So....no verse where God claims to be fair? No comment on the sovereign landowner? No offer from scripture defining what fair means? Just I'm wrong?

 

[sawdust]

So....no verse where God claims to be fair? No comment on the sovereign landowner? No offer from scripture defining what fair means? Just I'm wrong?

I showed you what the word fair means and it doesn't mean "to treat all people the same" so yes, you're wrong. Apply the correct meaning to the word and then find scripture that shows God is unfair.

 

[Cameron143]

I showed you what the word fair means and it doesn't mean "to treat all people the same" so yes, you're wrong. Apply the correct meaning to the word and then find scripture that shows God is unfair.

Ok.

 

[maxamir]

everyone is chosen and given a seed, but not everyone is saved by that same seed.

Besides the foundations are the elements from heaven, not earth ❤️

You where not born in heaven

everyone is indeed chosen either for salvation or damnation and the seed given is the Gospel which is an aroma of life unto life to some and to others it is an aroma of death unto death (2 Cor 2:14-16).

Before the foundations of the heavens, the earth, the seas and all that is in them which Scripture applies as being before time began (2 Tim 1:9) and before anyone was born.

Rom 9:11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),

 

[Genez]

My contention has from the beginning been that nowhere in the Bible does claim to be fair. He does, however, claim to be just.
So, can you show me from scripture where God claims to be fair?
If you read the story of the landowner who at intervals during the day hired workers. At the end of the day, he paid them all the same wage. Was that fair or just?

Does the Bible claim that God is smart? It does not.

One might wonder about that since man was supposed to have been made in His image....

 

[maxamir]

This is the question I meant my reply to.
What can dead men do?

Clarifying spiritually dead men yet still alive in their physical bodies, like Abraham, whose body was, "as good as dead" believed God. And Abraham's faith is attributed in Hebrews 11:18 as, "Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead..." and reason is a 'natural' ability inherent in all mankind.

The spiritual dead know nothing (as it is written of the dead) and so faith is all they can go on, since physical evidence isn't sufficient to convince us, i.e. Abraham's old body, Sarah's dead womb was insufficient evidence of any children coming. They only had the word of God to go on, and that had to be taken by faith. Sarah laughed, but I don't believe in any sort of mocking way, like 'ha! as if!,' but in a nervous hesitancy to express her joy completely.

That is all men can do, but when our spirit is reborn, "the Spirit himself testifies with our spirit...(Romans 8:16)" and so our hope is 'realized' that 'we are God's children' and we inherit the kingdom of God.

The Scriptures are quite clear that spiritually dead men hate God and would never choose Him unless they are first made spiritually alive and this is why salvation is of and and belongs to the Lord and not the choice of men.

 

[selahsays]

So....no verse where God claims to be fair? No comment on the sovereign landowner? No offer from scripture defining what fair means? Just I'm wrong?

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

- Acts 10:34-35 (KJV)

 

[Genez]

Yes I see your a man of titles and diversions.

I'm.still waiting to discuss the original suggestion 😊

I've been waiting for a thousand years

You're waiting.

Your only purpose here is to disrupt and distract others away from having a constructive dialogue for better understanding truth of God's Word.

Tell me. Why did you volunteer for the job?
Does Satan pay that well?

I hear his wages are going to cost you more than you bargained for.

You're not even clever.

Maybe clever in the sense like the grinning guy who holds a gun to his head with only one round in the chamber,
pulling the trigger wanting to get people to react to his "bravery."

You may grow up some day. So stick around. You might eventually learn something... if the devil gives you permission to.

Wishing you a nice Day.

 

[Genez]

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

- Acts 10:34-35 (KJV)

Here.. Let's see what that says in our English that we speak with today....

​

Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism ​

but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.​

grace and peace ................

 

[Genez]

God is truly amazing. Even as you were sharing that I need not waste time, but redeem it,God showed me a way to do that.
Grace and peace.

God showed me to say that....

 

[sawdust]

Ok.

Ok what? Being wrong? Go for it. She's apples ... She'll be right on the Day .. afterall, it's all good ain't it.

 

[maxamir]

Where does scripture mention the term spiritually dead. Why are you inventing terms, defining them as you wish, and then attributing them to the Bible?

Did God lie in what He said below, because Adam ending up living to the ripe old age of 930?

Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

He died spiritually when God removed His spirit from him and began to die physically.

Scripture is clear that all have lost the image and likeness of God, are spiritually dead and cursed, slaves to sin and Satan, his children and bear his evil image unless they are born again by grace in Christ.

Eph 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

Eph_2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Col_2:13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

1Pe_4:6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Joh_5:25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

Luk_9:60 Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God."

 

[maxamir]

When will we see the kingdom of God?
Luke 21:31 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near.

Christ is speaking of the glory of His Kingdom judgement that was soon to fall upon those living in Jerusalem.

Christ's Kingdom is a spiritual Kingdom.

Luk_17:21 nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."

 

[Cameron143]

Does the Bible claim that God is smart? It does not.

One might wonder about that since man was supposed to have been made in His image....

Hold up. You advised me to redeem the time. Then we established that I couldn't do that and chat with you. So which is it? Redeem the time? Or respond to you?

 

[maxamir]

The Scripture does not say "let alone choose it". Don't add to the word of God.


What, indeed?

"Dead" men can observe, learn, think, choose, examine, ponder, speculate, consider, and even imagine. "Dead" men can choose which woman to marry, which career to follow, which car to drive, and which team to support. "Dead" men can choose wisdom or folly, peace or strife, health or illness, life or death.

Oh... and they can reproduce after their kind too.

spiritually dead men can indeed do all of those things but they can never choose God unless God has first chosen them.

Joh 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

I only added my observation of what common sense would say, that it is impossible to choose something you can not see.

Do you have a problem with God choosing people?

 

[Genez]

My contention has from the beginning been that nowhere in the Bible does claim to be fair. He does, however, claim to be just.
So, can you show me from scripture where God claims to be fair?
If you read the story of the landowner who at intervals during the day hired workers. At the end of the day, he paid them all the same wage. Was that fair or just?

Knowing God? It had to be fair.

Those who showed later in the day and got paid the same may have been poor and needed to stay home longer to tend to his family's immediate needs, like hunting and gathering firewood for what he was unable to purchase.

The Lord being fair, paid to give the man what was needed for him to break the cycle of poverty, thus enabling that man to begin to live, rather than always having to struggle.

That's not fair?

 

[maxamir]

My contention has from the beginning been that nowhere in the Bible does claim to be fair. He does, however, claim to be just.
So, can you show me from scripture where God claims to be fair?
If you read the story of the landowner who at intervals during the day hired workers. At the end of the day, he paid them all the same wage. Was that fair or just?