Predestination is misunderstood...

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HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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Did you read the verse...He does His will in the armies of heaven and amongst the inhabitants of the earth and none shall stay His hand. God answers to no one and no one can thwart His will. He is the LORD God omnipotent. He has no peers or rivals. This is what people were inferring when they said your god was too small. Your understanding of God renders Him less than He is.
It actually does not, it shows who He is, not a tyrant but a gracious loving God.

There is only one way to read the Bible and the "spirit of condemnation and favoritism" is not it.
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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It seems that you therefore think that Christ died for absolutely every person, even those He justly casts into Hell. Is that right?

The apostle Paul pondered the response of people who thought like you did in Romans 9 and it would be wise to read it in full.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, "JACOB I HAVE LOVED, BUT ESAU I HAVE HATED."
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
Rom 9:15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOMEVER I WILL HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOMEVER I WILL HAVE COMPASSION."
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.

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Wow, even the great A. W. Pink did not understand the story of the sheep and the goats.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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Man was originally made in the image and likeness of God but after the Fall all are made in the image of cursed Adam (Gen 5:3) and therefore all are slaves to sin and Satan, his children, bearing his evil image unless they are born again by grace.

Scripture does not reveal when Satan was cast out of Heaven by the Creator, Elohim, but it was obviously before the fall of man.
Scripture suggests satan fell after the fall of man in two places, its somewhere in scripture , do you know where. I bet you do.
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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The definition of the image of God according to Scripture is true righteousness, holiness and an intimate knowledge of God (Eph 4:24, Col 3:10) which man lost after the Fall and confirmed by God who originally called man who was made in His image and likeness very good (Gen 1:31) but after the Fall calls him only evil continually (Gen 6:5).

Satan lied to Eve in the garden making her think that she was not really like God and today is lying to the whole world, including most who call themselves Christians into thinking that every person is still in the image of God and in doing so has completely perverted the Gospel of Christ in whom the image of God is restored.

Any image without His likeness is a counterfeit of the true image of God.

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I am pretty sure that the bible states at that time, and this is once again a temporal statement that Calvinists like to give universal application.
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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Not seeing how “in Him”, negates the part where Paul says HE chose us.
It negates the idea that people not yet born were chosen by name by God before the foundation of the world. God chose Christ before the foundation of the world. Whoever (unknown and unnamed at the time Christ was chosen) would accept Christ as their federal head by faith in His death and resurrection and Lordship would become in Christ when they did, and so become a joint-heir with Christ.

Paul is addressing some of those joint-heirs in Ephesus reminding them that the purpose of being in Christ is to become more and more conformed to Christ's image.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Scripture suggests satan fell after the fall of man in two places, its somewhere in scripture , do you know where. I bet you do.
I don't believe Satan fell after the fall of man. I believe the references to the serpent in the garden are referring to Satan.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Did you read the context of the verse? Does it say that Nebuchadnezzer was prophesying?
34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

36 At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.

37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

Is everything everyone says about God in the Bible true and precise? The king was warned what would happen if he did not repent. It happened exactly as he was warned. As a king over avast empire who made decrees that were almost always carried out, what would he attribute to the God who imposed a predicted decreed penalty on him, the head of the empire? He would conclude -

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

However, there are many times in scripture that God's decrees not carried out because men do not cooperate. In fact, Nebuchadnezzar himself had gone against God's decree to stop sinning. Saul went against God's decree and spared the best of the flocks and king Agag. Adam went against the decree of God and ate of the forbidden fruit.
The Jews went against God's decrees. Every human who spends any decent amount of time on the third rock goes against God's decrees. And yet, His will always comes to pass.
 

Cameron143

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Not under exhaustive divine pre-determinism.
Not under exhaustive divine pre-determinism.
Psalm 145:9...The LORD is good to all: and His tender mercies are over all His works.
You don't understand reformed faith. And because you place it beside your understanding, it causes you to err concerning it. To your mind, you can't reconcile that God exercises goodness to all and still remain sovereign in His choices.
 

Cameron143

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I don't think I am going to get honest dialogue from you. Have a grace day.
I've done nothing but be honest with you, while you have impugned my character all along. Even here you question my integrity.

Grace and peace.
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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The Jews went against God's decrees. Every human who spends any decent amount of time on the third rock goes against God's decrees. And yet, His will always comes to pass.
So, obviously then, not everything that happens is God's will, but those things He has determined to happen, He has ways He can use to ensure they will happen.
 

Cameron143

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So, obviously then, not everything that happens is God's will, but those things He has determined to happen, He has ways He can use to ensure they will happen.
I hesitate to answer because I understand this to be your position and I believe the understanding of God's will to be more dynamic. So rather than give an answer that could be construed as dishonest, I'll simply bid you grace and peace.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Maybe you need to be more interested in increasing your English vocabulary.
Propositions: things asserted to be facts or true.
My vocabulary is good enough. But I have an open mind when need be.
When I sense I am not being given some debaters technique that is not productive.

When introducing a term that is not used commonly, if you wish to use it continuously?
Better define its usage so others can learn.

Others for the most part have no problem communicating with each other here.

The "snob approach" alienates and serves only to impress your self as you build yourself higher with waste.....
It is an instant turn off for me, and must be for others.

Some don't catch on as fast though...
So, I thought I might let others know what they suspect about you is actually true.

Have a nice Day.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Maybe you need to be more interested in increasing your English vocabulary.
Propositions: things asserted to be facts or true.
I know what a proposition is.... I also know an overuse of a term when it comes walking down the path, and introduces itself in a desire to sell something.

I would rather not learn to use such terms as to alienate some others when communicating in "koine English."

Koine Greek avoided what Attic and Classical Greek would cause with communicating with the common man when the NT was written.
Its why God chose koine as the primary Greek of the NT... though Paul could flip into classical Greek when so moved.

There are to be no self made pedestals in the body of Christ when its operating in the Spirit in communicating truth.
Especially bad when the person attempting to impress others with his vocabulary is not clear in his own thinking.

Have a nice Day...
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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God judges his children as they sojourn here in this world, by his chastening. They will not be judged at the last day, but are told to come ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. (Matt 25:32-34).
May I suggest?
Take a gander here...

We all will be EVALUATED..... And, some will suffer loss if they refuse correction now.


For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be
revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has
been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will
suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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May I suggest?
Take a gander here...

We all will be EVALUATED..... And, some will suffer loss if they refuse correction now.
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be
revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has
been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will
suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
Their work will be shown for what it is... the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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In which region did the manuscript families upon which the TEXTUS RECEPTUS, the Received text, originate? Asia Minor? or Egypt?
It all originated from Erasmus, the creator and author behind the text. And he journaled that he took the 10th century Latin Vulgate (Latin Language), which also was "the added to addition" from when Jerome first translated the original Greek into Latin around 320 AD. Erasmus took the 10th century Latin and tried to translate it back to Greek. But Jerome translated from koine Greek to Latin and when Erasmus translated it went from Latin to the modern day version of Greek we have now. And Erasmus wrote this is in no way a true copy of what the Apostles and others wrote.
 

Inquisitor

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Mar 17, 2022
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The text of the NT was written by the poor on papyrus, so the originals and earlier copies disintegrated. The educated Alexandrian theologians who tweaked the NT to more easily accommodate their gnosticism. wrote on expensive vellum which survived longer and therefore some extant copies survive from earlier times than the surviving copies from the Asia Minor stream. One cannot read authenticity into the production age of manuscripts.
The poor before the Industrial Revolution were not educated and could not read and write.

Education in the centuries following the birth of Christianity, was the domain of the wealthy.

Papyrus can last for centuries if the environment is favorable, not moist or too dry.

In a dry climate, like that of Egypt, papyrus is stable, and formed as it is of highly rot-resistant cellulose, but storage in humid conditions can result in molds attacking and destroying the material. (wiki)
 

sawdust

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Feb 12, 2024
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It would be interesting to know your interpretation of 1 Cor 2:14 & Psalms 53:2-3.
The Cor. passage is speaking of a person before they are born again. We are born body and soul and need a spirit for that is the part of our being that deals with comprehending spiritual matters. Spirit begets spirit (Jn.3:6) so the Holy Spirit can communicate spiritual matters to us.

The Psalm passage speaks of a Romans 1 type who rejected believing God at the first level of God consciousness. Their conscience becomes so seared they are like a mindless animal when it comes to the things of God. If God was to find a "wise" person who seeks Him, they would be the type who have believed the initial drawing factors eg. God exists, He is good, He is righteous, we are sinners and there is judgement between the two. This is based on the following verses.

Romans 1:19-20
19 because what is known about God is plain to them, since God has made it plain to them. 20 For ever since the creation of the universe his invisible qualities — both his eternal power and his divine nature — have been clearly seen, because they can be understood from what he has made. Therefore, they have no excuse;

John 16:8
“When he comes, he will show that the world is wrong about sin, about righteousness and about judgment

Hebrews 11:6
And without trusting, it is impossible to be well pleasing to God, because whoever approaches him must trust that he does exist and that he becomes a Rewarder to those who seek him out.
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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The poor before the Industrial Revolution were not educated and could not read and write.

Education in the centuries following the birth of Christianity, was the domain of the wealthy.

Papyrus can last for centuries if the environment is favorable, not moist or too dry.

In a dry climate, like that of Egypt, papyrus is stable, and formed as it is of highly rot-resistant cellulose, but storage in humid conditions can result in molds attacking and destroying the material. (wiki)
It's probably not a good idea to assume that dark ages - pre industrial revolution education standards applied in the first century.