Predestination is misunderstood...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#4,041
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
113
#4,041
sawdust said:
Huh? The Gospel is Christ died for our sin and rose again. The good news is Christ did what we can't do, ie. be sinless (wholly righteous) and satisfy God's justice. He is the way to salvation. If you believe the Gospel you are saved. Regeneration (new birth) is your first step in that salvation. (Although, personally I believe regeneration and faith occur simultaneously)

You keep wanting people to be spiritually alive (saved from death) before giving them the Gospel which is the power of God to salvation. It's what we call "preaching to the choir". Once you are made spiritually alive, you are saved, you don't need to be saved again. You don't get born spiritually twice.
Click to expand...
The Good News of Ones Salvation is the good news they are saved by what Christ has done. Duh
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#4,042
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
113
#4,042
Genez said:
You are functioning just like a Catholic who will not budge when it comes to praying to Mary and the saints.
Its the same stubborn energy of the flesh getting its way as opposed to the Word of God.

You simply want what you want. And, believe God agrees with you.......

Because? Your god is your emotions....
Paul was brought to tears over your way of thinking.

"Whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly [emotions] , and whose glory
is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things." Philippians 3:19

Your kind of stubbornness is nothing new....
Tongues people are the same way, just a different vice.

God sovereignly made me say that......


grace and peace ...............
Click to expand...
You scoffing the Truth
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#4,043
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
113
#4,043
sawdust said:
I've already said God foreknew those He predestined. God saw himself in relationship with believers long before any of us were born and He determined to save believers and give them a destiny.

You're the one off tangent. You are confusing the journey with the destination. You quoted Acts 2:23 where Peter is telling people it was God's purpose for Christ to die based on His foreknowledge. First off, the Cross is not Christ's destiny is was a part of His journey toward His destiny and it was a part of His journey on our behalf. If in God's foreknowledge, He saw no believers, there would be no need for the Cross.

God decided on the destiny of those whom He foreknew. He didn't decide on a destiny and then "look around" to see who He could fit into it.
Click to expand...
God forknows because He predetermined it, from the beginning to the end.
 
sawdust

sawdust

Active member
#4,045
Feb 12, 2024
940
194
43
67
Australia
#4,045
brightfame52 said:
The Good News of Ones Salvation is the good news they are saved by what Christ has done. Duh
Click to expand...
The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, it is what saves you. That power is not in our "yay we are saved!", it is in the Cross.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

1 Corinthians 15:2
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
#4,046
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
#4,046
brightfame52 said:
I dont know what you talking about
Click to expand...
From a Standard within the Reformed Doctrine:

1. The people are in a state of grace, but they are not sure that they are saved. The confession, as we will see, says that assurance of salvation is possible and indeed should be sought. Nevertheless, not everyone who is in the state of grace has yet arrived at the conclusion that he is in that state. Such people may think or hope they are saved but may not have full assurance that they are.

It says you cannot know that you are saved, you just "hope" that you are saved.

This is the kind of tripe that YOU follow!
 
sawdust

sawdust

Active member
#4,047
Feb 12, 2024
940
194
43
67
Australia
#4,047
brightfame52 said:
God forknows because He predetermined it, from the beginning to the end.
Click to expand...
What sort of God do you think He is? Who would make a whole host of decisions and then look at their knowledge bank.

Common sense ought to tell you decisions are made on the basis of knowledge, not the other way round.

God foreknows because He is omniscient.
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#4,048
Oct 12, 2017
2,973
420
83
#4,048
sawdust said:
I've already said God foreknew those He predestined. God saw himself in relationship with believers long before any of us were born and He determined to save believers and give them a destiny.

You're the one off tangent. You are confusing the journey with the destination. You quoted Acts 2:23 where Peter is telling people it was God's purpose for Christ to die based on His foreknowledge. First off, the Cross is not Christ's destiny is was a part of His journey toward His destiny and it was a part of His journey on our behalf. If in God's foreknowledge, He saw no believers, there would be no need for the Cross.

God decided on the destiny of those whom He foreknew. He didn't decide on a destiny and then "look around" to see who He could fit into it.
Click to expand...

"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours
but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2



Jesus died for all sins...

Because God agreed to allow to let all mankind fall.
Not just believers.

By dying for all mankind? -
Believer and unbeliever ?
It brought it all back and under His jurisdiction for judgement.

Everyone is now responsible to Him alone!

grace and peace .................
 
sawdust

sawdust

Active member
#4,049
Feb 12, 2024
940
194
43
67
Australia
#4,049
Genez said:
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours
but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2



Jesus died for all sins...

Because God agreed to allow to let all mankind fall.
Not just believers.

By dying for all mankind? -
Believer and unbeliever ?
It brought it all back and under His jurisdiction for judgement.

Everyone is now responsible to Him alone!

grace and peace .................
Click to expand...
Thanks for this, it helped me focus. I need to amend my original post as I said "if there were no believers there would be no need for the Cross" but that is not entirely true as it is still needed judgement of the unbelievers. I knew as I typed my error it "felt off" but I couldn't work out why. Your response here has helped me clarify why it felt off. :)
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#4,050
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#4,050
brightfame52 said:
Total Depravity, a Gospel Truth
Click to expand...
In Some places I agree but not all places for the unsaved, in many places it suggests.all mankind have something That God still cares for in there fallen state.

Whilst In other places we see Gods stern warnings for people in there fallen state.

Total depravity would be not caring what so ever for mankind in there fallen state.

Total depravity only exists towards evil.

Children are not born evil there born into sin, there's a difference

I don't know if you've realised but this is what the main problem is with the tulip doctrine.
 
sawdust

sawdust

Active member
#4,051
Feb 12, 2024
940
194
43
67
Australia
#4,051
FollowerofShiloh said:
From a Standard within the Reformed Doctrine:

1. The people are in a state of grace, but they are not sure that they are saved. The confession, as we will see, says that assurance of salvation is possible and indeed should be sought. Nevertheless, not everyone who is in the state of grace has yet arrived at the conclusion that he is in that state. Such people may think or hope they are saved but may not have full assurance that they are.

It says you cannot know that you are saved, you just "hope" that you are saved.

This is the kind of tripe that YOU follow!
Click to expand...
I did not know this. Thanks.

So sad. :(
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#4,052
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
113
#4,052
sawdust said:
The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, it is what saves you. That power is not in our "yay we are saved!", it is in the Cross.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

1 Corinthians 15:2
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
Click to expand...
Christ is the Saviour, He does the Saving, The Gospel is Good News to whom Christ has saved.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#4,053
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
113
#4,053
FollowerofShiloh said:
From a Standard within the Reformed Doctrine:

1. The people are in a state of grace, but they are not sure that they are saved. The confession, as we will see, says that assurance of salvation is possible and indeed should be sought. Nevertheless, not everyone who is in the state of grace has yet arrived at the conclusion that he is in that state. Such people may think or hope they are saved but may not have full assurance that they are.

It says you cannot know that you are saved, you just "hope" that you are saved.

This is the kind of tripe that YOU follow!
Click to expand...
Still dont know what you talking about
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#4,054
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
113
#4,054
sawdust said:
What sort of God do you think He is? Who would make a whole host of decisions and then look at their knowledge bank.

Common sense ought to tell you decisions are made on the basis of knowledge, not the other way round.

God foreknows because He is omniscient.
Click to expand...
God is Sovereign and He predestinated all things.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#4,055
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
113
#4,055
Thunderrr-mental said:
In Some places I agree but not all places for the unsaved, in many places it suggests.all mankind have something That God still cares for in there fallen state.

Whilst In other places we see Gods stern warnings for people in there fallen state.

Total depravity would be not caring what so ever for mankind in there fallen state.

Total depravity only exists towards evil.

Children are not born evil there born into sin, there's a difference

I don't know if you've realised but this is what the main problem is with the tulip doctrine.
Click to expand...
Man by nature is spiritually dead, depraved.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#4,057
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#4,057
brightfame52 said:
Man by nature is spiritually dead, depraved.
Click to expand...
Is it there nature that is spiritualy dead or the inner being known as a soul

Because there born spiritualy dead mankind was given a saviour.

Surely it's mankind nature that still has somethy in it that God still loves
 
sawdust

sawdust

Active member
#4,060
Feb 12, 2024
940
194
43
67
Australia
#4,060
brightfame52 said:
Man by nature is spiritually dead, depraved.
Click to expand...
Yes he is which is why ....

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

..... is freely given to all people so they may temporarily be free of their depravity and answer to God of their own free will according to their own true desires just as Adam and Jesus could answer to God from their own desires.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.